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I do not have access to a Tyranid codex at the moment.

There's a debate in my 40k League taking place that according to the Rules As Written in the main codex entry for "Shadows in the Warp" it states enemy models suffer -3 Leadership.

The Reference summary in the back of the book states that this only applies to models with the Psyker rule (Brotherhood/Pilots/etc.).

As the MAIN codex entry does not denote "Psykers", one of the Tyranid players is stating that all enemy models suffer -3 LD while within the "Shadows in the Warp".

So which is it?

DogOfThunder wrote:
I do not have access to a Tyranid codex at the moment.

There's a debate in my 40k League taking place that according to the Rules As Written in the main codex entry for "Shadows in the Warp" it states enemy models suffer -3 Leadership.

The Reference summary in the back of the book states that this only applies to models with the Psyker rule (Brotherhood/Pilots/etc.).

As the MAIN codex entry does not denote "Psykers", one of the Tyranid players is stating that all enemy models suffer -3 LD while within the "Shadows in the Warp".

So which is it?

Tyranid Codex wrote:All enemy units and models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules suffer a -3 penalty to their Leadership whilst they are within 12” of one or more models with the Shadow in the Warp special rule.

That's the main codex entry. All enemy units and models that are Psykers. So RAW is absolutely only Psykers.

Or... another way to read it (which i disagree with, just throwing it out there)

Is that the UNIT Does have the Pysker Rule as one guy has it.

As such the whole thing is effected?

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Or... another way to read it (which i disagree with, just throwing it out there)

Is that the UNIT Does have the Pysker Rule as one guy has it.

As such the whole thing is effected?

The Psyker rule is model based and therefore the unit does not have it. There's no rules basis for your devils advocate to be true.

Fair enough.

Just thought i'd try and see it from the wrong side of the Fence

Thanks for the prompt reply.

If that is how the rule is written, I believe the first few words stating "all enemy models" are being misunderstood.

The other side of the fence with this one is an argument that models such as Ork Boyz and Cultists would be at -3 LD, particularly when the Psychic Shriek/Scream is used.

Yeah, that's just reading it incorrectly.

The only correct way to read it is:
"All (enemy units and models) with the (Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers) special rules..."

So "All X with the Y special rules..."

rigeld2 wrote:
Yeah, that's just reading it incorrectly.

The only correct way to read it is:
"All (enemy units and models) with the (Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers) special rules..."

So "All X with the Y special rules..."

Correct. Although, if you want to read it as "all enemy units and (all) models with the Psyker,etc. special rules" it could be an amusing look on the Nid players face when you point out that SITW would also effect his psykers.

PanzerLeader wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Yeah, that's just reading it incorrectly.

The only correct way to read it is:
"All (enemy units and models) with the (Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers) special rules..."

So "All X with the Y special rules..."

Correct. Although, if you want to read it as "all enemy units and (all) models with the Psyker,etc. special rules" it could be an amusing look on the Nid players face when you point out that SITW would also effect his psykers.

Hardly, especially when the Nid player decides a person who would argue that isn’t the kind of person they would want to play and pack up to go play someone who is less of a man child.

Hardly, especially when the Nid player decides a person who would argue that isn’t the kind of person they would want to play and pack up to go play someone who is less of a man child.

It's no less man-childish to insist that SitW affects every model on the opponent's side of the table as well as all models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers, rathar than reading it as "all models dependent on having these rules".

It would be funny for SitW to affect a Culexus Assassin, for example (who is his own, self-contained SitW, in a sense).

I know the new codex is worse then Orcs but don't stretch. grab an ADL pop a Barbed Hierdrule behind it and win.

Stormbreed wrote:
I know the new codex is worse then Orcs but don't stretch. grab an ADL pop a Barbed Hierdrule behind it and win.

Really, that is more like helping to loose since it opens the game to Escalation and lots of D-weapons. And I don't really see it as worse than Orks, more about on the same level or a bit better.

SITW effects all models with the psyker, psychic pilot, psychic brotherhoord, etc special rules.

It does not effect all models, just the ones with those rules.

Given the large amount of psykers in 6th, thats pretty powerful.

And the Ork codex is amazing.