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I was just wondering if yen black legion supplement is really worth the buy? What sort of cheese comes with it and is it fun and competitive?

The main Cheese it comes with is the ability to ally with CSM so you can bring 4 Heldrakes to the table all for the bonus cost of a cheap character and a small squad of cultists.

There are some really cool combos that can be pulled off with it.

The 4 helldrake list is okay. I have found it to be relatively weak as far as competitive lists go.

You can put down 4 units of oblits. I like oblits so this is a positive.

Last memory of Yuranthos is just awesome. DS a sorcerer with it on top of a gunline and watch as a 1/3 of it dies and half are blinded. Not to mention the extra warp charge can help if you get invisibility.

Unfortunately I have not gotten a chance to play with the other options.

sorc on a disc with mark of tzeench, -1 T but rr 1 for inv saves and the 4++ in for a 3++ RR the 1's, add a familier and the last memory and run around trolling people

I kitted out a Daemon Prince with Spineshiver Blade, Skull of Ker'ngar, Eye of Night, and went to town on an IG player using fortifications. He was responsible for the death of an entire 50-guard blob squad w/commisar (by hand, deliberately), a Manticore, a squad of Melta Vets, and a squad of Flamer Vets.
Eye of night is awesome, but too expensive for a one-off.

Paying the VotLW tax can be more of a boon than a tax if your meta has a reasonable number of Marine players (and lets face it, where are there NOT Space Marine running around?) for the most part. That said, it's still points not going into other upgrades.

Hoping to play the Disc Sorc soon.

I'm about to just take the BL allies, (with none of the special artifacts, and wargear) just to open up more FOC slots(without the supplement).

I already pay for VOTLW on my heavy support choices anyway, and both the Dark Apostle and DP can get it for free as the mandatory HQ.


Drop some cultists in and bam, saved 50 bucks right there.

The best bits of the book are unlocking a Double-Detachment for Chaos Space Marines and the Last Memory. In every other case, I would say to avoid it and stick with the current book.

VotLW is a cute and barely-noticeable tax on the grunts. However it becomes quite prohibitive on Chosen/Terminators, which you might notice are the cornerstones of the book. It also directly flies in the new fluff of the Legion being mostly made up of new recruits.

Speaking of which, Chosen are not a good unit to turn into Troops. They are an expensive unit that gain no improvements to survivability and their only ability of note is to cram 5 Plasma Guns into a single squad. Expensive, squishy dudes that are outrageously offensive are *very bad units to make Scoring* because they:
a) Demand firepower to be levelled at them because they are threatening.
b) Have no ability whatsoever to handle that much firepower.

The Terminator 'improvements' should be immediately struck off for obvious reasons. The pricing is utterly ludicrous, especially since it comes with VotLW on top.

3 of the new Artefacts are absolute rubbish, 2 of them are alright, and one is legitimately very good. For all the people harping on about the Disc-Lord, you don't seem to appreciate how much that all costs. Making him T4 is just salt in the wound.
Spineshiver is tolerable but hardly a replacement for the Mace, and the Skull is decent in that it opens up avenues beyond Biomancy. But I wouldn't say either of them are as useful as the Axe of Blind Fury or Burning Brand.

If you fancy running multiple Heldrakes *and* a fast escort of Bikes/Spawn for your HQ, the Legion has something to offer. Similarly if you want even more Obliterators, or fancy having a scary Undivided Sorcerer Lord, it can be fun.
However all of this comes at significant cost:
- Plague Marines are a better Scoring unit than Chosen could ever hope to be.
- VotLW will typically scythe out ~10% of your armies points even when you avoid the Veteran units
- The traditional Artefacts tend to be better.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
I kitted out a Daemon Prince with Spineshiver Blade, Skull of Ker'ngar, Eye of Night, and went to town on an IG player using fortifications. He was responsible for the death of an entire 50-guard blob squad w/commisar (by hand, deliberately), a Manticore, a squad of Melta Vets, and a squad of Flamer Vets.
Eye of night is awesome, but too expensive for a one-off.

Paying the VotLW tax can be more of a boon than a tax if your meta has a reasonable number of Marine players (and lets face it, where are there NOT Space Marine running around?) for the most part. That said, it's still points not going into other upgrades.

Hoping to play the Disc Sorc soon.

So far the Eye of Night has yet to earn its points back for me, but these were also very high point level games where I could afford the price... Popped one maulerfiend and immobilized another in one game on 1st turn, took 6 HPs off of a Baneblade and 3 off a LR in another.

The Hand of Darkness is a neat idea but haven't seen it justify itself yet.

The VOTLW tax... May not be so bad after all. In a few games vs. Marines it's helped 7 CSMs hold their ground vs multiple Grey Hunter charges, devastate with re-rolls to hit and wound with a Lightening Claw on a Lord, and keep a Crone locked up against 4 CSMs for 3 turns.

Yeah, abaddon, the guy in terminator armor, who has a famous retinue of black legion terminators looks around at the other codices that have options for taking terminators as troops, looks at his super death-squad and says "Yes... YES!

... I will make CHOSEN scoring!"

...




Anyways, I only know of one person who bought the supplement around where I live, and he largely doesn't use it, so... you know, it can't be THAT great.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, abaddon, the guy in terminator armor, who has a famous retinue of black legion terminators looks around at the other codices that have options for taking terminators as troops, looks at his super death-squad and says "Yes... YES!

... I will make CHOSEN scoring!"

...




Anyways, I only know of one person who bought the supplement around where I live, and he largely doesn't use it, so... you know, it can't be THAT great.

Or, since it is renowned for cobbling together various factions and it's leader bears all four marks, say, making all cults troops??

Nah.

Hell, I would've even accepted the ability to give Chosen Terminator armor and it would've made more sense.

 Jaiste wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, abaddon, the guy in terminator armor, who has a famous retinue of black legion terminators looks around at the other codices that have options for taking terminators as troops, looks at his super death-squad and says "Yes... YES!

... I will make CHOSEN scoring!"

...

Hell, I would've even accepted the ability to give Chosen Terminator armor and it would've made more sense.

I think in the older editions you could give chosen terminator armor, and while you can't any more, Abaddon still makes them troops because the devs never bothered with updating it to make terminators troops or have an Archaon Swords of Chaos style bodyguard retinue (like Justaerin who used to be Sons of Horus pre heresy).