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Who do you consider to be most at fault when it comes to laying blame for the Horus Heresy? Who contributed most? This is a broad topic, as there is plenty of blame to go around, and there are still plenty of Horus Heresy novels being released. I find myself absolutely loathing Erebus - he's sneaky, conniving, and incredibly evil.

The Emperor. He did not adequately arm his sons for the task ahead of them, specifically in regards to the Warp, and he put far too much power in the hands of a single one of them.

Of course previously- before the current series- Horus is simply possessed in a moment of vulnerability rather than turning, which would defray much of the fault from the Emperor.

hmm hard one, Lorgar had a hand in it, but i feel the blame lies with Typhon, Kor phaeron and Erebus, had these 3 not turned then perhaps lorgar would have not turned, imagine an imperium with its soul guarded by the word bearers

 Formosa wrote:
hmm hard one, Lorgar had a hand in it, but i feel the blame lies with Typhon, Kor phaeron and Erebus, had these 3 not turned then perhaps lorgar would have not turned, imagine an imperium with its soul guarded by the word bearers

Lorgar is a weakling, an emotional fanatic. It really wasn't a surprise to me to learn that the Word Bearers were at the root of the Heresy sprouting.

Lorgar was indeed weak and a fanatic, his actions in first heretic show this quite well, however in betrayer he is a whole different kettle of fish, it seems he has a handle on how chaos works and functions on a fundamental level, thats pretty boss

I'd have to say the Emperor made the biggest mess. Messed up with a certain World Eater primarch, tried to ban arguably the second greatest psyker ever from using his powers, let his liking for Horus blind him, just crushed Lorgar's planet ruthlessly not thinking of possible implications, let several legions run around wildly just messing around, etc. Also, if the rumors that he got the ability to make the primarchs by dabbling with the chaos gods is correct, that just pokes even more holes in it all. The dude failed dad parenting 101. Oh, and he forgot to actually warn about the warp and the badness of it.

Discounting the Emperor, I'd argue the Eldar (cabal) are also quite guilty of the disaster. They really did many a thing wrong and honestly it really might come to bite them in the future. I wouldn't really put Lorgar as the root of the blame, Typhon, Kor Phaeron, and Erebus are, in my opinion, much more at fault as their corruption was what really set it off.

I guess you could also say that the Ruinous Powers were largely at fault

Has Erebus's side of the story been novelized yet? I've only read about 13 of the novels up to this point, mostly in order (Mechanicum and Fallen Angels are both seemingly rare and hard to find, even online) and I'm reading Fear to Tread now.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Has Erebus's side of the story been novelized yet? I've only read about 13 of the novels up to this point, mostly in order (Mechanicum and Fallen Angels are both seemingly rare and hard to find, even online) and I'm reading Fear to Tread now.

nope, I have a hunch he's not exactly a very... relateable character

The Emperor. Making a deal with Chaos to create Legions and Primarchs, reneging on them, and then giving the badly mishandled armies waiting for a reason to turn.

Erebus. I havent read the whole heresy series, but man I hope that ass hole dies.

I havent read the novels as im not a fan but didnt the emperor ignore the eldar when they warned him? (despite him apparently able to understand anything due to his intellect, which is really stupid...)

So in short the emperor. Who was too arrogant and short sited to do anything useful.

Mcfloonoo wrote:
Erebus. I havent read the whole heresy series, but man I hope that ass hole dies.

Couldn't agree more, every time he's in the presence of a loyalist marine/Primarch I keep hoping they'll tear his head off.

It is just so many small (and large) happenings and events that collectively led to the heresy. It would be easier trying to find that last drop that made the bucket overflow.

I think the Heresy and the manner in which it ultimately unfolded stems ultimately from the Emperor being a total sham. I personally can't decide if this is a product of poor writing or if we just haven't been shown enough about the Emperor's actions, but there are just so many mind bogglingly poor decisions being made by a being that we've been told: 1) watched humanity for thousands of years before acting; 2) is a super scientist whose ideology is one of reason; and, 3) is massively psychic. Two big ideas jump out at me in this regard:

His total lack of understanding of emotions:
-The handling of the Word Bearers. He put the ideology of his vision ahead of the character of Lorgar. Rather than compromising or having an open dialogue, he publicly shamed his most fragile son. This shows an absolute lack of understanding of emotional responses.
-The acceptance of Curze and Angron as generals of his armies. It doesn't make any sense given what we're told about the Emperor, that he couldn't tell these two were train wrecks. He could have folded their legions into the existing forces and not have risked the obvious consequences of their behavior.
-There are also probably other examples, such as with Perturabo, who felt unrecognized or under appreciated, or Mortarion, who was kind of a broody jerk and probably needed a hug.

His ironic inconsistent application of reason:
-Denying the primarchs and their legions knowledge about the warp and of chaos. This one is a doozy. What if Magnus had actually understood the nature of the Ruinous Powers? What if Fulgrim had known to be wary of chaos artifacts and demons? What if Lorgar had understood that the reason the emperor didn't want to be worshiped was that there actually were gods in the warp and that rationalism was the only way to overcome them? That he didn't share the information with them is embarrassing.
-We're told he designed the natures of the primarchs. It's arguable that his work was affected by their casting out into the universe by the gods. However we're still continually told that the primarchs manifest the spectrum of his character. If that is the case, his handling of Lorgar and Magnus become even more troubling. We're led to believe that he designed a psychic juggernaut and a zealot, but didn't follow up on his designs with proper instruction? That's not very reasonable.

 Forcemajeure wrote:
It is just so many small (and large) happenings and events that collectively led to the heresy. It would be easier trying to find that last drop that made the bucket overflow.

Spoiler:

I was just going to say how has no one blamed the Chaos Gods yet? They saw a threat in the Emperor and worked against him, orchestrating a plain to essentially undo all the good he was doing. The Horus Heresy was just the climax of what they wanted.

I was just going to say how has no one blamed the Chaos Gods yet? They saw a threat in the Emperor and worked against him, orchestrating a plain to essentially undo all the good he was doing. The Horus Heresy was just the climax of what they wanted.

I really seem them more as a natural force rather than a character that can be blamed.

I pretty much agree exactly with jojo on this

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Forcemajeure wrote:
It is just so many small (and large) happenings and events that collectively led to the heresy. It would be easier trying to find that last drop that made the bucket overflow.

Spoiler:

I was just going to say how has no one blamed the Chaos Gods yet? They saw a threat in the Emperor and worked against him, orchestrating a plain to essentially undo all the good he was doing. The Horus Heresy was just the climax of what they wanted.

I take offense! I also blamed them

Anyways, the reason I pause about that is.... the warp is the warp. The chaos gods are not gods nor are they really characters. They are more the combination of a quadrillion+ dreams and souls amassed within the warp. They move with an alien comprehension that is so focused on letting them live more but..... we can't really even tell how they function? Tzeentch really doesn't have an overarching plan instead opting just to have change for change's sake to promote further change etc. Also because if we all just blamed the Chaos Gods, well come on the Horus Heresy was where CSM and most chaos forces came from. Plus we wouldn't be able to riff on the Emperor that, for all his brilliance, really does some stupid stuff.

The Chaos Gods are the anthropomorphic personification of Warp Storms, so...

The false corpse-emperor of course...

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I think the Heresy and the manner in which it ultimately unfolded stems ultimately from the Emperor being a total sham. I personally can't decide if this is a product of poor writing or if we just haven't been shown enough about the Emperor's actions, but there are just so many mind bogglingly poor decisions being made by a being that we've been told: 1) watched humanity for thousands of years before acting; 2) is a super scientist whose ideology is one of reason; and, 3) is massively psychic. Two big ideas jump out at me in this regard:

His total lack of understanding of emotions:
-The handling of the Word Bearers. He put the ideology of his vision ahead of the character of Lorgar. Rather than compromising or having an open dialogue, he publicly shamed his most fragile son. This shows an absolute lack of understanding of emotional responses.
-The acceptance of Curze and Angron as generals of his armies. It doesn't make any sense given what we're told about the Emperor, that he couldn't tell these two were train wrecks. He could have folded their legions into the existing forces and not have risked the obvious consequences of their behavior.
-There are also probably other examples, such as with Perturabo, who felt unrecognized or under appreciated, or Mortarion, who was kind of a broody jerk and probably needed a hug.

His ironic inconsistent application of reason:
-Denying the primarchs and their legions knowledge about the warp and of chaos. This one is a doozy. What if Magnus had actually understood the nature of the Ruinous Powers? What if Fulgrim had known to be wary of chaos artifacts and demons? What if Lorgar had understood that the reason the emperor didn't want to be worshiped was that there actually were gods in the warp and that rationalism was the only way to overcome them? That he didn't share the information with them is embarrassing.
-We're told he designed the natures of the primarchs. It's arguable that his work was affected by their casting out into the universe by the gods. However we're still continually told that the primarchs manifest the spectrum of his character. If that is the case, his handling of Lorgar and Magnus become even more troubling. We're led to believe that he designed a psychic juggernaut and a zealot, but didn't follow up on his designs with proper instruction? That's not very reasonable.

You nailed it.

A lot of people made contributions to the Heresy, but the Emperor shoulders most of the blame. For a being with such power, experience and insight, he makes a whole ton of extremely moronic choices.

In short; The Emperor for being a terrible father.

Considering the Emperor's vaunted power and abilities, and the fact that he is the most powerful human/trans-human/being in the universe, I can't help but wonder, every single time some disastrous event occurs within the 40k universe, if maybe all of this is some kind of grand design by the Emperor himself. Isn't it possible he wanted all of these events to unfold? To what end, I can't imagine, as the 40k lore hasn't been fleshed out nearly enough (and most likely never will be), but if he's practically a god, I don't think this possibility can be discounted, for the following reasons:

- He's the most powerful psychic force in the universe (his spirit/presence alone is the cause of the Astronomican)
- He has communed with the Chaos Gods (and possibly other warp/xenos forces) to gain knowledge and power, very little of which is explained and the extent of which hasn't been made clear
- He created the Primarchs and the Astartes, so who would know their capabilities/loyalties/genetic traits better than he would?

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that he placed Horus in the position of Warmaster as a test of his loyalty or resolve, or that his harshness in dealing with Lorgar and Magnus was out of simple ignorance or wrath. Surely, as the creator of all the Primarchs, he would know his own sons better than anyone - their capabilities, loyalties, strengths, and weaknesses. It's remote, but I still think it's a possibility.

Well the Emperor first, as he failed to properly instruct his sons and the legions of Astartes on why Chaos is really really bad and the full extent of the threat.

After the Emperor's critical failure, Erebus. He was pretty much behind it all. It really shouldn't be called the Horus Heresy, but rather the Erebus Heresy, or at least the Word Bearer Heresy.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Well the Emperor first, as he failed to properly instruct his sons and the legions of Astartes on why Chaos is really really bad and the full extent of the threat.

After the Emperor's critical failure, Erebus. He was pretty much behind it all. It really shouldn't be called the Horus Heresy, but rather the Erebus Heresy, or at least the Word Bearer Heresy.

Horus was named Warmaster though, and had infinitely more influence than Lorgar ever would, especially with his fellow Primarchs. If I remember correctly, almost all of Lorgar's brothers despised him. In a few ways I can sympathize with Lorgar - he states that even though he was born to be an Admiral, a warrior leading warriors, he never felt like one. Horus had the power, and was already feeling alienated from the Emperor because of the bureaucracy of the politicians and High Council on Terra. It was perfectly orchestrated by Chaos to pick on the most fanatical, disillusioned and emotional Primarch as a means to corrupt Horus.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Chaos is to blame for the Horus Heresy.

Its all the eldars fault, if they had not had the fall that created slaanesh then the warp storms that cut off terra wouldnot have dissipated and allowed the emperor to launch the crusade in the first place. Probably goes further back butterfly flapping its wings style.

I put it down to poor writing. Theres too many mind-boggling poor decisions made on the emperors part.

Chaos... obviously. Everything else is circumstantial.

The Emperor is to blame mostly. However despite his poor portrayals, I tend to believe that because he is an immortal psychic uberhuman he simply doesn't understand why no one can grasp his vision or decisions. He has this master plan that he doesn't share with his genetically created sons, not out of security, but because he expects his progeny to simply understand his vision. This is often reflected in how the Primarch deal with their Astartes progeny.

The Emperor. He has been written as making, as stated by mitch_rifle, the most absolutely mind-bogglingly stupid decisions just to have the Heresy exist as a plot device. There is no way everything else written about the Emperor makes sense in light of how he handled the events so idiotically leading up to the Heresy.