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I keep intending to get into Fantasy,with Empire, but the spearmen just look silly. Empire is meant to be an Italian renaissance inspired army? Correct? And the core of those Italian armies were spearmen (well pikemen anyway but same thing). While I like the old empire spearmen the new ones just look stupid, their spears are far to short! They are like weapons used in the stone age? Anyone who knows anything about military history and tactics would realize that the weapons used by the "modern" Empire statetroops would just be useless. If they were using spears that short surely they would use shields too? The current way they are armed any unit could hack them down.... While I like fantasy and am quite forgiving of realism etc, they just would get hacked down, simple as that. I can't bear models that look silly.




Above: Adequately protected and armed. Can deal with anything that would charge it.




Above: Neolithic hunter gatherer.


Are you still allowed to use the old ones?

Not only that but their deformed monkey shaped face too ;/

Spearmen are spearmen, doesn't matter if you use old or new models. Your opponent can't stop you from using them.

You are always allowed to use old GW models. Fortunately GW hasn't decided to force you to use new models just to try to make a profit.

Empire State troops are based on the German Landsknecht which is why they have the frilly pants. They are basically the Holy Roman Empire but focused appearance-wise on one single type of unit instead of what the actual military looked like.

I agree with you Mad Mark, I bought the empire army 'deal' back when 7th edition was released thinking I got an awesome deal... worse mistake I ever made as an empire player. Don't get me wrong the hand gunners and crossbow men have seen plenty of action as conversions over the years, but the melee state stroops themselves? Blah! From the small pieces on their bodies (which would of been better off as bits) to their heads, general pose and just trying to get the spears just right... its to much trouble for their worth. Instead I've been collecting the old state troops every time I get a chance and have been happy since.

One of the more recent WHFB based games had an amazing trailer of a bunch of Empire troops marching through the Forrest, and he ambushed by Chaos knights. It was pure win. I picked up an Empire battalion and general because of that, but can't seem to put together the Troops because they look stupid. I wish they looked like they did in that trailer.

Wound up picking up High Elves instead, and the aesthetic had a huge impact on that decision. The Empire is still in my to-assemble pile. (This was when I first picked up some fantasy a number of months back)

I have considered using Bretonnian models or something instead (with some conversion work)

I personally like the aesthetic of the State Troops, but in the context of a 40k Inquisition army where the randomly-attached skulls and feathery hats fit in perfectly. I can see how those looking to use them in a fantasy setting might not like them.

For those looking for alternatives, there are plenty out there that can work as Empire troops with a little modification and a decent paintscheme. Generally cheaper and better proportioned, a lot of historical figures could work as WFB troops.

I really like the design of the Empire State Troops - some of the best core options available IMHO.

Unfortunately, if you arm them with spears and halberds, they are a royal pain in the arse to rank up which means the models aren't overly useful for Warhammer itself.

I use them for Mordheim gangs though.

I'm inclined to agree w you MadMark. My issue w the newer troops is their barebones look - despite the trinkets and such they all look so skinny! But worse than that is the models' legs. They're all spread-eagled and in really weird positions.

You can give them spears and shields. But I am not a fan of those shields in that kit.
The previous Empire Soldiers kit was much better. It can still be found if you look around.

MadMarkMagee wrote:

If you're gonna be realistic, those are not without problems of their own. Everyone is carrying a shield... except the majority of the front rank. See what I'm getting at?
(I agree they look better, though)

Use proper historical miniatures for Empire
Gripping Beast Plastic (Saxons / Vikings)
Perry Brothers (War of the Roses / Hundred Years War)
Warlord Games (Roman, ok it's a very different look, but works too)
FireForge (Templars / Teutonic)
They're plastic, they're good quality (some better than GW plastics), quite easy to rank up and they're super cheap (40+ models for 20 pounds / 22 euros)

These look real nice:
http://kiwidave.pbworks.com/w/page/7780168/Warhammer%20-%20Empire

You could always use some Mantic men-at-arms: