Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, I need any help I can get from experienced commission workers. I have just stepped into the sorld of commissioning and I need help with setting price on a project. It might be difficult for you to tell but I will try to be as detailed as possible.
The man who employed me is asking for a diorama on a 60mm base. It consist of two dreadnoughts but one of them is lying under the foot of the other. It has been a battle and the winning dreadnought has ripped out the pilot from the sarcophagus. The dreadnoughts will require lots and lots of sculpting from scratch and freehand painting. He aska for as highly advanced painting as possible and as good sculpting/ converting aswell. He provide the models.
Anyone able to tell how much I should charge for this project? If I am unclear or you want further details, please ask.
I appreciate any suggestion and help.
Thank you

Approximately how long do you think the project will take you? And what is the minimum hourly rate you're prepared to work for? Multiply and voila!

At a rough guess, you should be aiming at the £600 mark to be competitive, but if you can stretch more do so, not including models, materials or shipping. A dio like that is easily around 100 hours work, even without complex sculpting or rebuild work. On massive jobs like that I sometimes discount on the provision that I use the piece for promotion - golden demon entry, push around the net, make sure it's photo'd and put out there, that sort of thing. The increased buzz is usually worth it.

Note that's not a lot of money for the work. Commission work is extremely low margin, best income is at the high end tabletop army level.

Have you got a link to some of your earlier work to the same standard and I'll tell you what I'd pay for it.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Have you got a link to some of your earlier work to the same standard and I'll tell you what I'd pay for it.

Here is my website: NikosWorkshop.com

Your rough pricing list comes in at around 240 for 2x dreads painted and assembled to your top standards.
That sounds about right to me.
Maybe 350 if you get carried away with some free hand, banners complex basing. etc and with postage.

You're neglecting the resculpt/rebuild work. That alone would account for a good 50+ hours in my (not inexperienced) opinion.

Sure, but some of that 50 hours (if that's correct) will fall within the assembly allowance.
It really depends on exactly how complex the poses are and quite how the 'pilot' is worked out.
There's really 3 elements: winning dread, losing dread, pilot.

Winning dread
This'll need some good precision work to repose and some battle damage.

Losing dread
Depending on how badly he's lost will reflect the price. If it's really smashed up the work won't need to be too precise and he can be buried in rubble etc to hide awkward joints etc.
If he's more intact the work will need far more precision and take longer.

Pilot.
If there's a decent model to start from ie zombie/skellie then it's not a huge amount more work. If it's a custom sculpt then obviously more £.

Just some thoughts.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
A quick sketch would help in terms of seeing exactly how much work is needed. For instance, if the winning dread is mainly upright and the loser is half submerged in rubble then the conversion on the winner should be minimal(except for the legs/feet/waist or however you do it) and that's half a losing dread you won't have to paint!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it seems like a lot to squeeze onto a 60mm base!

See, there's not much space unless the winner is standing on top of the loser.

Include planning time in working estimates. This includes 'try and fit' sessions. Seriously, I've done a couple of competition grade dioramas (silver GD and damn close to the sword (I'm told), finalist for the second the following year) and the planning and build time far exceeds the painting portion. Especially if you need to convey a strong narrative.

I've been successfully doing commission work for a fair few years now, and the one thing I've really learned is 'don't lie to yourself about how much work something is'. Seriously, just don't.

In this particular case, I'd strongly suggest using FW contemptors, purely to help with posing. This saves a lot of work in rebuilding:
Both legs on both dreads, at least the power fist arm on the attacker, the torso and pilot on the loser, along with at least one arm. Then sufficient groundwork to mount it all on the required base size (I assume overhang is not a problem or the 60mm is unrealistic).
Some adjustments and resculpting are still necessary but you could probably get the majority of the build done in under 30 working hours.

winterdyne wrote:
Include planning time in working estimates. This includes 'try and fit' sessions. Seriously, I've done a couple of competition grade dioramas (silver GD and damn close to the sword (I'm told), finalist for the second the following year) and the planning and build time far exceeds the painting portion. Especially if you need to convey a strong narrative.

I've been successfully doing commission work for a fair few years now, and the one thing I've really learned is 'don't lie to yourself about how much work something is'. Seriously, just don't.

In this particular case, I'd strongly suggest using FW contemptors, purely to help with posing. This saves a lot of work in rebuilding:
Both legs on both dreads, at least the power fist arm on the attacker, the torso and pilot on the loser, along with at least one arm. Then sufficient groundwork to mount it all on the required base size (I assume overhang is not a problem or the 60mm is unrealistic).
Some adjustments and resculpting are still necessary but you could probably get the majority of the build done in under 30 working hours.

The entire project is based on fluff from the horus heresy and apparently the battle was between two normal dreadnoughts. Between two captains and highly detailed models. I am really thankful for all the tips and help I've got.

Eep. Big job, then.
Looking forward to seeing wip if you post it...

In all honesty, this sounds like a fresh sculpt on the loosing figure all around.

The size/shape of the GW dreads will make posing the winner difficult without it looking spastic unless the looser is nearly flattened into the ground. The best way to accomplish that would involve sculpting it as opposed to trying to modify parts. You would be able to reuse a few bits, things like the arms and legs, but even those would need heavy modification.

I doubt he wants an out of the box build for the winner either. Adding embelishments, damage and reposing the stubby figure will take a good amount of time too.

Total hours to build, I would probably say Winterdyne's 50 is pretty close. That will really depend on the particulars of each dread though.

On top of that, I would add another 16 hours of design and revision work. Unless he supplies concept art for you to work from, you will want to sketch or otherwise mockup your idea to make sure you are both on the same page.

After the build, you still have the painting. Again, this will be a few days worth as a safe guess. I doubt he wants them fresh from the factory, so you will probably have freehand as well as all the battle damage on top of normal painting and blending work.

When it is all said and done, that would end up being a solid two weeks worth of work.

After that, you need to figure all you materials, both for the build and shipping. I normally wont ship something like this in a regular cardboard box with some foam peanuts...and although pretty small, it doesnt take much to get into a build for $50+ in raw materials.

Finally take your costs and add in the hours by what you work for. I dont think I would even consider doing this for less than $1000, while $1600 would be much closer to a reasonable price. Most of this sort of work, I value at $20 per hour. Any less than that and you might as well watch reruns of Firefly as running a business properly with all the taxes and paperwork that is outside the scope of the work knocks things down a good bit too.