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Dedwrekka wrote:
This is a bit beyond what you're looking for, but I will add this. Once you get into the game proper a lot of the "meta" skews towards Def being better than Arm.

well, unless your meta has a lot of ways that ignore DEF. Which there are a lot of ways out there to do now a days and the abilities are on models like Stormwalls that are often taken and quite good.

I've actually noticed a swing away from pure DEF to more ARM. For example more and more khador players are going with IF pikemen or BD pikemen instead of WG or Kayazy.

From my experience, though you usually want high DEF or high ARM. Getting mediocre stats in both is often a death sentence.

I played my first game today - I was starteled of how quickly I stripped down things with rather decent ARM!

Seven Magelock shots with Crit: Brutal Damage against a Charger = Grid 3-6 was gone.

Dedwrekka wrote:
Defense is better because the enemy is already planning on throwing the kitchen sink at you damage wise to kill the model and making them work extra hard to actually hit you means more survivability.

Hmm, I’m afraid I cant fully agree with this. High Def is a valid strategy, but its stock is a lot let than it was. When mk2 hit, “high def” was the thing, and spammed caused all sorts of problems. In the last few releases, however, and especially since colossal has hit, the amount of tech available that neuters, bypasses and ignores high def (spells, feats, auto hitting effects etc) has increased hugely. High def is still a valid strategy, but as mentioned, is not “the” answer to all questions any more.
Again, since colossal has hit there has been more of a skew towards high ARM. Its especially true in Khador which was traditionally the “spam high Def” army. You see a lot less kayazy these days, and a lot more uhlans and iron fangs! If anything, I’d argue that colossal has pushed the meta to give a bit more emphasis on high arm multi wound infantry which is nice to see, as previously they were a bit undervalued when compared to “spam high def”.

The Wise Dane wrote:I played my first game today - I was starteled of how quickly I stripped down things with rather decent ARM!

Seven Magelock shots with Crit: Brutal Damage against a Charger = Grid 3-6 was gone.

Damage output can be quite staggering at times – its part of what balances the game – it revolves around the “its not broken because I can kill it” school of thought. Just an observation, but you seemed to have lucked out with your critical hits to pull it off. Outside of those crits hitting, those pow10s barely ping jacks. And to be fair, I’d be quite happy with those 7 shots going into a 4pt jack while my infantry moves up! 

Deadnight wrote:

Dedwrekka wrote:
Defense is better because the enemy is already planning on throwing the kitchen sink at you damage wise to kill the model and making them work extra hard to actually hit you means more survivability.

Hmm, I’m afraid I cant fully agree with this. High Def is a valid strategy, but its stock is a lot let than it was. When mk2 hit, “high def” was the thing, and spammed caused all sorts of problems. In the last few releases, however, and especially since colossal has hit, the amount of tech available that neuters, bypasses and ignores high def (spells, feats, auto hitting effects etc) has increased hugely. High def is still a valid strategy, but as mentioned, is not “the” answer to all questions any more.
Again, since colossal has hit there has been more of a skew towards high ARM. Its especially true in Khador which was traditionally the “spam high Def” army. You see a lot less kayazy these days, and a lot more uhlans and iron fangs! If anything, I’d argue that colossal has pushed the meta to give a bit more emphasis on high arm multi wound infantry which is nice to see, as previously they were a bit undervalued when compared to “spam high def”.

The Wise Dane wrote:I played my first game today - I was starteled of how quickly I stripped down things with rather decent ARM!

Seven Magelock shots with Crit: Brutal Damage against a Charger = Grid 3-6 was gone.

Damage output can be quite staggering at times – its part of what balances the game – it revolves around the “its not broken because I can kill it” school of thought. Just an observation, but you seemed to have lucked out with your critical hits to pull it off. Outside of those crits hitting, those pow10s barely ping jacks. And to be fair, I’d be quite happy with those 7 shots going into a 4pt jack while my infantry moves up! 

Particularly as a mercenary player, I have to disagree. Even if the Khador players have dropped Kayazi, they appear in almost every major list for 5* mercenary players. They're too stupidly good to not take them.

Dedwrekka wrote:

Particularly as a mercenary player.

You have my sympathies…

Dedwrekka wrote:

Even if the Khador players have dropped Kayazi, they appear in almost every major list for 5* mercenary players. They're too stupidly good to not take them.

You mean, both of them?
Heh, I apologise – I’ll stop teasing.
the mercenary argument is a bit of a strange one though - mercenaries as a faction have far more limited options.
Khador players haven’t dropped kayazy – they still make appearances. They’re still popular, and they still have uses. They’re good – not “stupid good”, but very solidly good. But the notion that kayazy are “the best” option, as was touted for a long time is no longer true in an era with a lot more high DEF hate. Like I said, high ARM multi wound infantry take you further in a meta where auto-hitting POW10s make all those light infantry obsolete under a lot of conditions – they still have uses, but you have to be more careful about them.
And for what its worth, those 4 star lists with high def will be as buggered by auto hitting effects (hello chain lightning, ashes to ashes, stormwall pods, stormstriders,conquest covering fire, the flame bombing judicator, striker3, and so on) as my khador army. Then there are the old favourites like bile thralls and fire effects.

The store I go to has a decent warmachine base, very heavy GW. When they were teaching the 4 of us they said F the boxes do a 12 point game, no infantry, and lots of different terrain. Def and Arm is a defensive stat in a offensive game. The Stryker 1 in the battle box is a defensive commander. Spells to boost def by 2 and 5 with the feat. I don't know trollbloods at all and barely hordes. I would recommend making a 12 point list proxy if you have to and USE TERRAIN. You not fighting legion so terrain changes everything. Also don't be afraid to look at the rule book every move. Also seeing from this trollbloods don't have a heavy war beast. Us change that and you will eat his charged alive.