Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/02/10 14:09:29
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
I have just finished UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was very well written, and quite complex and arguably one of the most mature and well developed books I've read. I found the Calth one felt about 300 pages too short! Like a whole chunk had been edited away, I then found what I believe was the rest of that book in the MARK of CALTH short story which to me was a whole 6 chapters missing from the full book.
Please don't read on if you haven't read UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE
Spoiler:
So if the Cabal is so prevalent, and so all knowing and so pervasive and altering timelines, could it be the case that the Cabal killed / assassinated / kidnapped or otherwise disposed of the other 2 missing primarchs? Chaos has never claimed to have killed them or discovered them? Is it possible, that knowing the future that the Cabal managed to interfere with the Capsule or kill the infant Primarchs or destroyed them before the Imperium got to them? Leading the Imperium to find out that they had died by some event prior to finding them and hence why they are never mentioned because of the abject failure of the Imperium to find and secure the Emperors offspring?
2nd Card - "The High Priestess" - Deeply psychic, the only one on a level with the Magus. However his method is entirely different; whereas the Magus directs, the High Priestess observes. The Magus uses the Warp, but the High Priestess understands it. The High Priestess is intuitively capable of predicting the motions and interactions of systems as a whole, and guiding them holistically.
10th Card - "Fortune" - Expansive, generous, fun-loving and maybe a little boisterous. While he can seem very straightforward, he is a much deeper thinker than most recognise and can occasionally startle people with a calm, deeply reasoned insight. One of the most understanding of people's need for faith.
Maybe the "High Priestess" could see the future with much more clarity than Kurze and therefore turned away because he/she could see how it played out? Who knows maybe he / she is in the Cabal?
I can see "fortune" struggling to fit into the Great Crusade....Maybe he renounced the Emperor for his lack of understanding of the need of Faith in Humanity?...
I thought I would share my thoughts, as I can see the Cabal becoming much more of a central player in the HH and the wider Canon?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/10 14:09:41
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2014/02/11 09:26:16
Subject: Re:HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
In the book "Legion" the Cabal is desperate to recruit the Alpha legion to it's cause, if the Cabal has the two other primarchs why go through all the trouble of doing so?
Unless it's all "Just as planned"
2014/02/11 09:48:01
Subject: Re:HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
True, unless of course the Cabal is seeking to divide the Loyalists further and sap their strength, it's ultimate aim is to "Sacrafice the Human Race and immolate the Pantheon of Chaos Gods"...So it wants to fatally weaken the Imperium so it implodes and drags the Chaos Gods down with them. Essentially the Human Race is the sacraficial Lamb that will save the Galaxy.
The interesting thing about the Cabal is that it gives authors the ability to put different spins on things without having to RET-CON the Canon massively, I love the Cabal characters they are very Human unlike the Transhuman Astartes and Primarchs. ADB and DA will have some real fun with this Plot Arc and I find that the prose and writing in the HH Series is becoming alot more mature, almost Shakespearean (and yes references to this feature often) in it's complexity and narrative. I'm glad it's this good, I just wish we could re-write the Dark Angels books they were terrible and the Furious Abyss book was weak too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/11 09:50:02
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2014/02/11 21:49:19
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
I've always felt that they chose to not serve the emperor. When he found then they would not bend knee. Not that they wanted to serve chaos but rather serve no man or god. They saw what he really was and said "nah I'm cool here man".
I have exactly zero evidence to back this up but its what I like. Knowing what I know about the emperor. He would view refusal as betrayal.
Oh then he called for extermination of their home planets you know because that's what the good guys do!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/11 21:50:41
Kings of War Herd
Master Crafted YouTube Channel, your home for all KOW content...deemed not suitable for children, nuns, women or people with even remotely decent morals...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpUodTbAv0XfqvwwG2cBHuA/feed
2014/02/11 22:54:04
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
All we know is that they were executed by the SW and that other legion primarchs are afraid that , if secrets about their genetic instability gets own their fate will be the same . And that at the time of the primarchs being put to the ax , the ultramarine legion swelled up in ranks by a lot.
2014/02/11 23:49:36
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
lobbywatson wrote: I've always felt that they chose to not serve the emperor. When he found then they would not bend knee. Not that they wanted to serve chaos but rather serve no man or god. They saw what he really was and said "nah I'm cool here man".
But this denial would have been not different from Angron's attitude.
I also have (always had) this "hunch" that at least one of the two missing primarch is intended to appear as destroyed, just to be the "plan C", possibly waiting somewhere in stasis or a "go, settle, have descendants, so that one day I will call for them"
Aside from being references to the Roman Legio IX which disappeared in Britain, GW won't let them do anything definite with them because, as Dan Abnett said in an interview, they are left vague to allow players to do their own thing, that creative side of 40k where they encourage players to create their own stories. Leaving two entire Legions with no information lets creative players make their own 'legion remnants' fluff and armies without just making a new, non-existant primarch and legion.
2014/02/12 07:41:51
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
What is the reference for SW Executing/ destroying the other two LEGIONS?
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2014/02/12 07:51:00
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
mwnciboo wrote: What is the reference for SW Executing/ destroying the other two LEGIONS?
Space Wolves implying that going up against the Sons wasn't their first inter-marine rumble and comments from various Primarchs indicating that their absence was a deliberate scrubbing rather than unfortunate accident.
2014/02/12 13:48:01
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
mwnciboo wrote: What is the reference for SW Executing/ destroying the other two LEGIONS?
Space Wolves implying that going up against the Sons wasn't their first inter-marine rumble and comments from various Primarchs indicating that their absence was a deliberate scrubbing rather than unfortunate accident.
Yeah but that could be them referring to the "Issues" they have with the Dark Angels, you know the one where they smacked crap out of each other, or the time they tried to teach ANGRON a lesson when they surrounded him, and did the whole "counting coup thing" giving him a lesson in "I could kill you but choose not to, I am better than you....Learn from this" thing that RUSS did and sacraficed a lot of his Wolves to make a point entirely lost on ANGRON.
It's not necessarily the 2 missing Legions? Unless of course there is an explicit reference? I know of one reference in a book between MALCADOR and ROGAL, another in UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/12 13:49:16
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2014/02/13 11:13:43
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
mwnciboo wrote: I have just finished UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was very well written, and quite complex and arguably one of the most mature and well developed books I've read. I found the Calth one felt about 300 pages too short! Like a whole chunk had been edited away, I then found what I believe was the rest of that book in the MARK of CALTH short story which to me was a whole 6 chapters missing from the full book.
Please don't read on if you haven't read UNREMEMBERED EMPIRE
Spoiler:
So if the Cabal is so prevalent, and so all knowing and so pervasive and altering timelines, could it be the case that the Cabal killed / assassinated / kidnapped or otherwise disposed of the other 2 missing primarchs? Chaos has never claimed to have killed them or discovered them? Is it possible, that knowing the future that the Cabal managed to interfere with the Capsule or kill the infant Primarchs or destroyed them before the Imperium got to them? Leading the Imperium to find out that they had died by some event prior to finding them and hence why they are never mentioned because of the abject failure of the Imperium to find and secure the Emperors offspring?
2nd Card - "The High Priestess" - Deeply psychic, the only one on a level with the Magus. However his method is entirely different; whereas the Magus directs, the High Priestess observes. The Magus uses the Warp, but the High Priestess understands it. The High Priestess is intuitively capable of predicting the motions and interactions of systems as a whole, and guiding them holistically.
10th Card - "Fortune" - Expansive, generous, fun-loving and maybe a little boisterous. While he can seem very straightforward, he is a much deeper thinker than most recognise and can occasionally startle people with a calm, deeply reasoned insight. One of the most understanding of people's need for faith.
Maybe the "High Priestess" could see the future with much more clarity than Kurze and therefore turned away because he/she could see how it played out? Who knows maybe he / she is in the Cabal?
I can see "fortune" struggling to fit into the Great Crusade....Maybe he renounced the Emperor for his lack of understanding of the need of Faith in Humanity?...
I thought I would share my thoughts, as I can see the Cabal becoming much more of a central player in the HH and the wider Canon?
Really, URE was bunk IMO. Abnetts worst book yet. 5 primarchs on the planet at the same time, w/ one being CRUZE after being captured, then escaped the Lion. The 2nd one falls from the sky. Come on?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/13 11:14:48
was censored by the ministry of truth
2014/02/13 12:01:59
Subject: HH the two missing Chapters - A pet theory??
Really, URE was bunk IMO. Abnetts worst book yet. 5 primarchs on the planet at the same time, w/ one being CRUZE after being captured, then escaped the Lion. The 2nd one falls from the sky. Come on?
Yeah, well, that's like....your opinion man.
I like it because it sheds some light on the this period, which before has been "Ultramarines fanny around a bit on periphery whilst the Legions got their game face on in get stuck into the Traitors on Terra". It is often cited that if the UM are so damn good, why didn't they get over the Palace and help out.
Is it against the Cosmic Rules to have 5 Primarchs in one place? Didn't bother anyone in Ullanor....There were alot more than 5 at Istvaan or at Terra.
Spoiler:
Roboute thinks he's alone so takes charge and gets **** done.
The Ruinstorm has them all in the "Doldrums" isolated, unable to navigate, co-ordinate or to aid each other for months. The Beacon started by Guillimans - Warsmith was the catalyst, the brothers rallied around it! I don't find it unbelievable. The Lion comes out of space wanting to know what this Beacon is, with Curze in tow, Vulkan Teleports in from an unknown source (guessing a super-long range teleport hence why he is in the upper atmosphere and not on the surface)....Sanguinius then arrives.
Curze and Vulkan are intertwined due to what happened post Istvaan.
Also thinking about it, remember the Empathic nature of the XENO-tech beacon, if you are in genuine need with genuine anguish, you can pull people to you.....Could Guilliman have subconciously desired to have Vulkan come to aide him and then he was pulled to him?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/13 12:03:31
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
2270 (1725 painted)
1978 (180 painted)
329 (280ish)
705 (0)
193 (0)
165 (0)
