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In the 8-9 games with the new 'nids codex I've played, my flyrants have died in all but 1 (where I rolled the opponent very quickly, and still lost one flyrant), this has lead me to playing the flyrants in a very defensive sort of way, and thus I am losing much of their upside. Plus, my defensive strategy usually involves paying 75 points for a bastion.

So, I'm trying to build a list that replaces the flyrant. The flyrant serves the following rolls
1) Maneuverable Synapse.
2) Firepower (lots of Dakka)
3) Psychic powers.
4) Fire magnet (my opponents target their entire army at it)
5) First Blood possibility
6) Anti-air

So I've gone back to the drawing board to come up with this list:
Tyranid Prime (BS + LW) - 145

3 Venomthrope - 135 (fire magnet)
2 Zoanthrope - 100 (psychic powers)
1 Zoanthrope - 50 (psychic powers)

10 HGaunts - 50
10 HGaunts - 50
10 TGaunts (spinefist) - 40
3 Warriors (2 Devourers, 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100

20 Gargoyles (Fire magnet) - 120
3 Shrikes (2 Devourers, 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100 (Mobile Synapse)

3 Biovores -120 (first blood?)
3 Fexes (1 with 2 Sytals, 2 with 2 TL Devourers) - 420 (firepower, fire magnet, anti-air?)
3 Fexes (1 with 2 Sytals, 2 with 2 TL Devourers) - 420 (firepower, fire magnet, anti-air?)

I hope like crazy that one of my Zthrope broods rolls Onslaught.

Gargoyles bubble wrap my fexes, and advance with them, with the Venoms hiding behind them. The Prime joined with the 2 zoeys follow (or he could hang with the Venoms), until he can detach, and slingshot into combat with something, or provide a wound-bank / EW for the zoeys. The TGaunts follow them. The warriors babysit my Biovores and hold a backfield objective.

The shrike's role and the HGaunts is a game-time decision. The Hgaunts could advance with the fexes, or if one flank is really vacant, they could run that flank with the Shrikes. The Shrikes could babysit the Hgaunts, or deep strike somewhere that I've lost synapse.

I'm definitely losing First blood possibilities, psychic power, and anti air, but I'm gaining survivability and firepower, also the chance of my warlord dying seems much lower.

I hate to take the grotesquely overprice Tyranid prime, but he is an IC with synapse, and can add survivability to my thropes, or hide with a squad of fexes.

Is a walking Tyrant with t-guard bubble no longer worth anything?

 SickSix wrote:
Is a walking Tyrant with t-guard bubble no longer worth anything?

He is, you are then forced to take the redoubt, a bastion with quad gun (zoey/venom inside) or crones to balance the list against flyers.

I want to run Swarmy, but I've come to love a fleeting walkrant more.

 SickSix wrote:
Is a walking Tyrant with t-guard bubble no longer worth anything?

I've tried it several times. It has much more survivability than Flyrant, but much less firepower. The only time I ever got it into CC it got force weaponed to death.

Nonetheless, I considered building a list around that, and decided that Tyranid Prime would be more valuable as an IC. It makes him more survivable, and also can help out my assorted thropes.

If walking Tyrant was an IC, I would pick that in a second.

A slogging Tyrant with Norn Crown and Regen plus max Guard should anchor your synapse for the entire game. I am surprised more Nid players aren't running these.

I do agree however that a bastion becomes more important but that ain't so bad. it provides AA, synapse and shrouding extension, as well as LOS blocking where you choose.

I want to start Nids so bad around these principles.

that set up is is 415 points... though it is one of the only cases where I would consider using regen.

Even in the meta I play, I've managed to keep my flyrants alive.. mostly because I use them more for buffing... hitting flanks.. etc till mid to late game. I do use a redoubt as well though, which pulls a lot of attention away.

If all you wanted was an anchor.. you could stuff a prime in a bastion with the crown.. throw a void shield and quad on it if you want more shooty.

 Deuce11 wrote:
A slogging Tyrant with Norn Crown and Regen plus max Guard should anchor your synapse for the entire game. I am surprised more Nid players aren't running these.

I do agree however that a bastion becomes more important but that ain't so bad. it provides AA, synapse and shrouding extension, as well as LOS blocking where you choose.

I want to start Nids so bad around these principles.

3 Tyrant Guard - 150 pts
1 Tyrant (Regen, Norn Crown, 2 TL Devourers) - 265

Paying 415 points for Synapse plus a slow, 2nd rate, melee deathstar is waaaay too much.

Lets just game this out a bit. Nobody is going to shoot at this turn 1. Nobody will shoot at it turn 2. Turn 3 it might take some fire because most of the rest of the nids are dead. 50% of regenning a wound, turn 4 and 5 probably feature a lot of assault, so regen isn't much of a factor.

So basically you are paying 38 points per wound on synapse for 1/2 of the board + maybe 24 S6 AP- shots, plus 14 to 28 S6 AP2 melee attacks.

I run 2 flyrants with TL Devourers with brainleech worms. It is kind of a spill over from 5e, but it still works pretty well.

Granted I havevn't had the time to really disect the new book the way I want to. But flyrants are kind of meant to get in there, do some damage and get killed. Thats why ya bring 2.

I can usually get first blood, and have them focus all their firepower on the flyrant, allowing my advancing hordes to move up. Giving up slay the worlord is a pain, but in the end it doesn't matter if you table them! =)

WARLORD: Tyrant-slogger w/ Regen, Norn Crown, & 2xTL Devourers
- 3x Tyrant Guard
HQ2: Flyrant w/ 2xTL Devourers

El1: Venomthrope
El2: Zoanthrope

T1: Tervigon
T2: 30XGaunts
T3: 30xGaunts

H1: Mawloc
H2: 3x Carnifexes 2xTL Devourers
H3: 3x Biovores

Bastion
------------------------------
1930
70 points left over

yeah, that is how I would start.

Again, I don't play Nids so most definitely understand I could be way off but this seems strong to me AND you won't give up Slay the Warlord while still having a good chance at getting First Blood and Slay the Warlord yourself.

I agree I think the Dakka flyrants are a bit of a crutch. I think a walking tyrant with guns and guards would be a good anchor and warlord.. The hard thing with losing the spore pods is that we had lost the ability to get things across the board quickly. Yeah I know the Trygon holes, but that is unreliable and can only deliver infantry... Mawlocs are nice but unreliable and sort of meh in CC