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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 07:32:35
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Hellish Haemonculus
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A couple of people seemed to have trouble picking between two. (I admit, I did as well. Curze was pretty sympathetic to my ear as well.) So I changed the poll to allow multiple choices. Sorry to people who already voted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 08:12:06
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I went with Perturabo, for some reason the bitterness turning to anger and even hate that can come from feeling unappreciated and seeing those whom are equal to you in skill being lauded above you... for some reason that speaks to me
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 08:14:13
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Got to be Magnus. If I was ranking them (sympathetic to pathetic)
Sympathetic
Magnus
Peturabo
Horus
Lorgar
Fulgrim
Pathetic
Curze
Alpharius
Angron
Mortarion
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 08:49:56
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Morphing Obliterator
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To me it has to be Pertuarbo (biased a bit as I play IW) and Magnus.
Pertuarbo as others have said was shunned and ignored by his brothers and given all the dirty jobs that not even Dorn wanted to trouble his Legion with. Horus was the only one to show him a bit of respect. When Olympia rebelled and they brutally put it down Pertuarbo knew the Emperor would never forgive him.
When news of Horus' betrayal came through, Pertuarbo knew that his only course of action for his Legion was to follow him. I don't think he wanted to do it, but he had no choice as he knew he would never be accepted by the Imperium.
Magnus I agree with for all the reasons others have said.
Lorgar I guess as he just wanted something to believe in and worship and the Emperor shunned that. He just went and found something else that wanted and demanded the worship (Chaos).
Horus was manipulated by Erebus and I can't sympathise with that because as a Primarch he should have been able to resist, even when wounded. He also should have listened to and trusted Magnus.
Fulgrim I just can't sympathise with at all. Of all the traitors, he had the least grievances and reason to turn (except maybe Alpharius). He did it out of sheer arrogance and desire for new experiences. If he hadn't picked up the Laeran sword it might never have happened.
Mortarion I can't actually discern his reasons for turning traitor. Is it because the Emperor killed his father on Barbarus? I can't see any other reasons from their history.
Angron I can't see having gone any other way. The Emperor betrayed him from the start when he whisked him away from his army and allowed them to be slaughtered. If he had joined the battle then Angron could have been a loyal son (especially if the nails were somehow removed).
Curze I do actually have some sympathy for. Although he was a psychopath leading a Legion of murderers and sadists who did eventually come to enjoy the fear and pain he spread, he was also a tragic figure because he did what he did while serving the Imperium under the orders of the Emperor, but was then criticised and called to account for those same actions.
He was also the only traitor primarch to willingly accept responsibility for his actions and take the consequences for them, just so he could be justified in what he had done.
I can't imagine any other primarchs letting the assassin kill them willingly.
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Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 12:03:50
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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rohansoldier wrote:
Mortarion I can't actually discern his reasons for turning traitor. Is it because the Emperor killed his father on Barbarus? I can't see any other reasons from their history.
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I think Mortarion Was never close to the Emperor, because of killing his Adopted father, And the fact he asked Mortarion to do it first. So Mort was never fond of the Emperor and the way I see it, only followed him due to being given an entire legion at his disposal. Mortarion was however very fond of Horus. and so would most likely of turned traitor in a second, because his true leader was horus, It was never the Emperor. thats my impression of it any way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 12:08:57
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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Perturabo's story was a little upsetting in Angel Exterminatus. I personally don't think he should have joined in the rebellion, and when he almost became lunch for Fulgrim I really didn't feel that bad for him. The entire story was one of his petty revenge against Dorn and his inability to look towards the greater war. Fulgrim had to lead him along step by step.
Curze's story is a little more upsetting. Vulkan Lives and Prince of Crows both have their moments where you get to see what truly lies beneath the guise of the "Night Haunter". Curze's entire life has been torturous and he only lives for the sweet release that death will bring him. He's trapped in following the road laid before him because the only way he can finally die is at the blade of an Imperial Assassin.
I had to stop reading a few times and reflect upon this curse. He doesn't just see a "possible" future like his brother Sanguinius, he sees exactly what will happen. How painful it must be to know the future and be powerless to change it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 12:31:13
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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cerbrus2 wrote: rohansoldier wrote:
Mortarion I can't actually discern his reasons for turning traitor. Is it because the Emperor killed his father on Barbarus? I can't see any other reasons from their history.
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I think Mortarion Was never close to the Emperor, because of killing his Adopted father, And the fact he asked Mortarion to do it first. So Mort was never fond of the Emperor and the way I see it, only followed him due to being given an entire legion at his disposal. Mortarion was however very fond of Horus. and so would most likely of turned traitor in a second, because his true leader was horus, It was never the Emperor. thats my impression of it any way.
I look forward to the Death Guard getting their chance in the HH series, not because I'm especially fond of the Legion, but because the books that have covered some of the more superficially one dimensional Primarchs (Angron and Perturabo specifically) have, IMO, been quite successful in fleshing out their characters and giving them some depth, which in turn has made it easier to interpret their better known actions.
Why Mortarion embraces Nurgle is well known, but as has been said, why he sided against the Emperor in the first place could use some expanding on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 13:16:20
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Angry Chaos Agitator
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Sympathetic
Magnus
Peturabo
Horus
Lorgar
Fulgrim
Pathetic
Curze
Alpharius
Angron
Mortarion
How is Curze pathetic and Fulgrim sympathetic, one was a mentally ill primarch pushed over the edge cause the Emperor needed a tame monster that he would later cast aside, the other was a Dark Eldar trapped in primarchs body talking to his sword thinking it must be his conscience.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The fact that Fulgrim tries to eat one of his brothers doesn't help his image much either, or going on a murder rape torture spree because he was bored with the siege at the Emperors palace, or betraying the other Legions in the Eye.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/11 13:25:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 15:46:01
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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azreal13 wrote: cerbrus2 wrote: rohansoldier wrote:
Mortarion I can't actually discern his reasons for turning traitor. Is it because the Emperor killed his father on Barbarus? I can't see any other reasons from their history.
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I think Mortarion Was never close to the Emperor, because of killing his Adopted father, And the fact he asked Mortarion to do it first. So Mort was never fond of the Emperor and the way I see it, only followed him due to being given an entire legion at his disposal. Mortarion was however very fond of Horus. and so would most likely of turned traitor in a second, because his true leader was horus, It was never the Emperor. thats my impression of it any way.
I look forward to the Death Guard getting their chance in the HH series, not because I'm especially fond of the Legion, but because the books that have covered some of the more superficially one dimensional Primarchs (Angron and Perturabo specifically) have, IMO, been quite successful in fleshing out their characters and giving them some depth, which in turn has made it easier to interpret their better known actions.
Why Mortarion embraces Nurgle is well known, but as has been said, why he sided against the Emperor in the first place could use some expanding on.
I would like some more deathguard related storeys as well. eisenstien was a great book but dealt with the whole loyalist side of the deathguard, and hinted at the start of what would create the greyu knights later on. but they never hit upon mortarion that much. from what i remember mortarion shows up near the beggining. and thats about it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 16:06:01
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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rohansoldier wrote:
Pertuarbo as others have said was shunned and ignored by his brothers and given all the dirty jobs that not even Dorn wanted to trouble his Legion with. Horus was the only one to show him a bit of respect. When Olympia rebelled and they brutally put it down Pertuarbo knew the Emperor would never forgive him.
When news of Horus' betrayal came through, Pertuarbo knew that his only course of action for his Legion was to follow him. I don't think he wanted to do it, but he had no choice as he knew he would never be accepted by the Imperium.
But then Leman Russ apparently was also given dirty jobs that he didn't necessarily want to do, but he carried them out and didn't go Traitor. Perturabo also had as much reason to side with the Emperor as he did with Horus if that is the course of thinking we are going to take, as the Warmaster, Horus would have assigned many of the dirty jobs to Perturabo also, as the Index Astartes article seems to imply.
I guess I feel sympathetic to Perturabo due to how he was treated by his brothers and the Emperor, but not for why he turned traitor. Horus shamed him into joining his side after the Olympia Massacre and he believed, perhaps wrongly, that the Emperor couldn't forgive him for his and his Legions actions. After all, it was an Imperial World in open rebellion regardless of it being a Legion homeworld. Sure, it must have been hard for Perturabo, but the massacre was justified. I don't think that's to justify him turning traitor.
Magnus, nope, he caused his own downfall, he can't really be blamed for it because he was a puppet dancing to anothers tune but his arrogance blinded him.
I would say Angron because he was never really given a chance. Abducted and then abandoned, left for his Legion to deal with.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/11 16:09:26
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 16:12:19
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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SRSFACE wrote: Formosa wrote:Magnus doesnt feel tragic for me, it was his own arrogance and hubris thinking he knew better than the Emp and his brothers that led to his fall, the Wolves are just the Effect not the cause, he brought it on himself.
also he was a traitor through and through, he was told not to dabble by the emperor, then nikea was another chance from the emperor to bring him into line, both were completely ignored, he may have meant well but he damned himself through his own actions and deserves no sympathy for that, if anything its his sons that deserve the sympathy as they were not to blame.
Because he DID know better than the Emperor. He literally knew tragedy was about to happen and did the only thing he could to prevent it. It was the Emperor's hubris and arrogance that doomed Magnus and Big E himself. If The Emperor heeded the warnings, he probably wouldn't have died.
Serious question for everyone, are you familiar with actual tragic stories, as in the ones that defined it? Stuff like Oedipus, and the like? Bringing doom upon yourself is kind of the lynchpin of all those stories. It's about pride leading to our downfall. Like I said in the thread "who caused the Horus Heresy," everyone did. It was a lot of chest thumping and pride and anger and sadness on everyone's sides. The entire thing reads like an epic Greek tragedy.
Yeah im familier
He didnt know better thats the thing, he dealt with beings so far above his understanding that there is no way he could have understood, he doesnt even believe the gods are gods (which is half true)also his warning to the emperor was proof in the end that he had betrayed the emp, prior to the warning itself he had continued to dabble and allowed his legion to do so too, that is breaking both his word to emp about nikea and ignoring prior warnings not to delve too deep into the sea of souls, and if someone betrays you once, how can you trust them not to do so again
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 19:38:07
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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You feel for quite a few of the traitor primarchs.
Magnus: He was genuinely trying to help prevent the Heresy and to warn his brothers. He ended up destroying something that could have helped mankind, and got his planet destroyed in return. Would he have stayed loyal during the Heresy if the Wolves hadn't come after him? Would he have helped turn the tide? Or would he have willingly consorted with Chaos for victory? We'll never know.
Perturabo: Here is a primarch that would have liked nothing more than to be an engineer. But while other Legions got glory, his was turned into menial warriors and garrison minders. They did all the work, and their sacrifices were never glorified. Hell, even with his amazing skills, it was Dorn who was recalled to Terra. And to top it all off, his home world shames him by rebelling against the Emperor.
Angron: You have to feel for Angron. The poor kid gets enslaved, has implants that are slowly killing him, and is the only one who doesn't rule his adopted world. And when his father shows up, he doesn't help out Angron. No, he kidnaps Angron away from his friends and comrades and lets them die. What about bringing the Imperial Truth? What about freeing people from enslavement?
After that, perhaps Lorgar, only because he never wanted to fight. He just wanted to tell everybody how awesome his dad is, and his dad turns his back on that. And in the end, Lorgar is proven correct.
Horus turns because of his ambition and his fear of being cast aside by his father. Mortarion turns because he holds a grudge against the Emperor for killing his adoptive father.
Actually, the only primarchs without daddy issues are probably Fulgrim and Alpharius/Omegon. Fulgrim has already started to fall before Horus even approaches him. Though, what pushes him over the edge is that Horus tells him that the Emperor will cast them aside. Apharius and Omegon don't seem to have any connection to the Emperor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 19:59:08
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Magnus.
Angron might be sympathetic if he wasn't such an donkey-cave.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/11 20:02:17
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Twisting Tzeentch Horror
Bridgwater, somerset
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Magnus, though he was arrogant enough to keep doing the naughty, and then destroyed the emperors webway project, the emperor showed no sympathy, and had he listened to Magnus the isstvan drop site massacre would have gone very differently
Also the emperor never gave Magnus any reasoning for banning his greatest strength
In the emperors defence he sent leman Russ to bring Magnus to him, not to destroy prospero
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/12 13:34:57
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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I'd say Perturabo. He joined the Emperor without a fuss, which is more than most primarchs did, then his army was split up too much for him to get credit for any of his victories, and he was declared a traitor for going overboard putting down a rebellion (and it's not like any other primarchs were doing the exact same thing at almost the same time, especially not the Space Wolves). Then he was betrayed by the traitor legions as well, so all that was really left for him to do was try get revenge for whatever grievances he could think of.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/12 14:37:05
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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I'm always perplexed at the hate levelled at Magnus for breaking the edicts of Nicea. Mainly because virtually everyone seems to forget or ignore the fact that virtually all the loyalists did exactly the same as soon as they were drawn into the Heresy. Guilliaman and the Lion both re-established their Librariums as soon as it became apparent that the warp was the best weapon they had against the daemonic forces of the traitors, The Lion even going so far as to murder his closet Brother Redemptor when he voiced opposition to the order. Russ completely ignored it from the start out of the ignorant belief that his Rune Priests were somehow not using the warp, which is obviously false as the 1k sons could see their priests in warp form when using their second sight, They all broke the order as soon as THEY decided that it would do more good for the cause, which is exactly what Magnus was trying to do when he broke into the webway. So if Magnus displayed Hubris in thinking he knew better than the Emperor then so did Guilliman and The Lion.
The Edict was an arbitrary rule that was bowing to the superstitious and the ignorant and it's clear that the only Primarchs that lobbied for it. Hell even Angron, who hated psykers did not disband the few remaining Librarians in his legion.
Just as with Lorgar at Monarchia, The Emperor created problems because rather than just have a simple conversation with his sons, he humiliated and shamed them in front of an audience. Any person with the smallest modicum of people skills would see that as poor judgement. Even middle managers in office jobs around the world realise that it is far more effective to call an unruly employee into private and discuss problems rather than loudly condemn them in front of their colleagues. He was the worst kind of boss, lauding the cocky show boaters like Horus and Fulgrim, failing to acknowledge the quiet hard workers like Perurabo, ignoring the disablities of those with obvious handicaps like Angron and failing to reprimand the total pyschopaths like Curze as long as he was getting the job done. All of those things would make for a terrible middle manager let alone a galactic leader.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/12 15:45:13
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Dakka Veteran
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Formosa wrote:Magnus doesnt feel tragic for me, it was his own arrogance and hubris thinking he knew better than the Emp and his brothers that led to his fall, the Wolves are just the Effect not the cause, he brought it on himself.
also he was a traitor through and through, he was told not to dabble by the emperor, then nikea was another chance from the emperor to bring him into line, both were completely ignored, he may have meant well but he damned himself through his own actions and deserves no sympathy for that, if anything its his sons that deserve the sympathy as they were not to blame.
He broke Nikea trying to save the Imperium because it was the ONLY way to reach Terra in time. Astropathic messages take time and they are so imprescise that the correspondence would have actuallly taken almost as longer as properly traveling through the warp
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/12 15:52:31
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Bewitched Vassal of Angmar
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I still to this day will never understand why the Emperor ignored Magnus. You killed a bunch of people and ruined my experiment to tell me frantically my favorite sons betrayed me? No impossible its not like I am almost all knowing about the warp and its dangers and its not like my son was wounded on davin and its not like there weren't signs of corruption on that planet, and its most certainly not like he was revived by a cult, these things point to nothing Magnus. You spilt the my first chemistry set I was playing with, go home and russ will be by later to get you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/12 15:57:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/13 09:53:28
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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KorPhaeron77 wrote:I'm always perplexed at the hate levelled at Magnus for breaking the edicts of Nicea. Mainly because virtually everyone seems to forget or ignore the fact that virtually all the loyalists did exactly the same as soon as they were drawn into the Heresy. Guilliaman and the Lion both re-established their Librariums as soon as it became apparent that the warp was the best weapon they had against the daemonic forces of the traitors, The Lion even going so far as to murder his closet Brother Redemptor when he voiced opposition to the order. Russ completely ignored it from the start out of the ignorant belief that his Rune Priests were. They all broke the order as soon as THEY decided that it would do more good for the cause, which is exactly what Magnus was trying to do when he broke into the webway. So if Magnus displayed Hubris in thinking he knew better than the Emperor then so did Guilliman and The Lion.
The difference is, i believe, that they did know better. They had experienced it first hand, after obeying the rule of the Emperor. They didn't break the Edict without cause other than necessity, Guilliman doesn't even know if there is an Emperor to obey anymore. That's the difference between them. There were other ways of taking his message to Terra, they might not be as reliable or quick, but Magnus chose to do the one thing that he was specifically asked not to do, the Edict of Nikaea was also known as the Trial of Magnus the Red, it was aimed more at him and his action over any other Primarch.
It probably wouldn't have made any difference if Magnus has sent his message by Astropath as according to the Wolf Hunt audio drama
I agree with you in regards to the Wolves though, Russ is a hypocrite in my opinion, but his get out of jail free card is that the Russ did not have a Librarius department therefore did not have to stop his Runepriests from using their powers. If you ask me the Edict was wrong to just ban a Librarius. The previous editions of fluff had the Emperor ban the use of Psychic Powers, which made much more sense.
KorPhaeron77 wrote:Hell even Angron, who hated psykers did not disband the few remaining Librarians in his legion.
Maybe Angron knew deep down that he needed the psykers kept around, he quite likely could have died if he hadn't been for them and we only have details of one instance.
KorPhaeron77 wrote:
Just as with Lorgar at Monarchia, The Emperor created problems because rather than just have a simple conversation with his sons, he humiliated and shamed them in front of an audience. Any person with the smallest modicum of people skills would see that as poor judgement. Even middle managers in office jobs around the world realise that it is far more effective to call an unruly employee into private and discuss problems rather than loudly condemn them in front of their colleagues. He was the worst kind of boss, lauding the cocky show boaters like Horus and Fulgrim, failing to acknowledge the quiet hard workers like Perurabo, ignoring the disablities of those with obvious handicaps like Angron and failing to reprimand the total pyschopaths like Curze as long as he was getting the job done. All of those things would make for a terrible middle manager let alone a galactic leader.
But the Primarchs were created to be generals and conquerors, they weren't created to be chaperoned around having their hands held.
No doubt he did handle certain situations and Primarchs very bad. It makes you wonder sometimes, what was his true intention for his Sons after the Great Crusade had ended. He wasn't going to be awarded father of the year awards by many of them. Curze was already rogue and likely to be number 3 to be deleted, who would have been next if the heresy had never had happened.
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/16 19:47:02
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Magnus, "hell is full of good meanings, heaven is filled with good works".
At the point of the heresy, Magnus had no reason to believe, no concrete reason, that he was doing anything wrong. He had mostly defeated the flesh change, started the librarius, and participated in the crusade.
While his hubris was his downfall, other than just blindly listening to empy(like he was a god), there was too much of a veil over chaos for him to know how deep the pool was.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/16 20:12:15
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Squishy Squig
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I would say Horus which I know is a weird thing but in the Horus heresy novels he's made to be a really likable character but I think the obvious one is Magnus simply because he was disliked simply because of what he was and that's one reason why I don't like the imperium, the fact they hate and fear pykers so much. the rest of the traitors I don't feel any sympathy for, angron is crazy, fulgrim is a ponce, konrad is crazy, and everyone is mind of meh
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/18 13:34:41
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Using Inks and Washes
St. George, Utah
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I actually would put Horus second. His fall was enhanced and aided magically, and was directly influenced by the Gods of Chaos. He doesn't get poisoned by the blade, he doesn't fall to Chaos. Poor dude got ruptured out of existence because of it. Tsk tsk.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/05 23:08:33
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Angry Chaos Agitator
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How can anyone find Fulgrim sympathetic. He was the most treacherous primarch out their,, turned on the Emperor because the Emperor was less than perfect, then turned on the Iron Warrirors to become what he saw as a perfect being, then betrayed the other legions so his troops could rape and murder while the siege of Terra was going on, then betrayed the other legions in the eye to support the exsperiments of Fabius and to make more snuff films. Fulgrim and his Legion were the most worthy of having the Wolves sent after them.
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If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/05 23:12:05
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Magnus is the only traitor primarch who went traitor due to getting screwed, but then DIDN'T go on to do something that erases all that sympathy. There are other sympathetic Primarchs, Perturabo is one, even Angron to an extent. But that they're both also insane murderous psychopaths kills off a fair amount of any sympathy one can have for them. Automatically Appended Next Post: According to what? Fulgrim turned on the Emperor because he was being mind-controlled by a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh. As a testament to Graham Mcneil's poor writing in this specific instance, Fulgrim's quest for perfection in all things had very little to do with his fall to Chaos. Having the Laer sword be the catalyst for the EC's degradation was a mistake, imo.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 23:14:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/06 18:50:35
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
The Eye of Terror
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Didn't Fulgrim also purge the Daemon that possessed his body, thus attaining true Daemonhood himself and also erasing whatever sympathy you could've had for him?
I could see being sympathetic to Fulgrim after he killed Ferrus and was claimed by the Laer's Sword, but afterwards? Hell no! He made his choice.
Magnus is the only one who not only was legitimately screwed on all ends, but even in his status as Daemon Primarch, is STILL revolting against the powers that birthed him, namely Tzeentch.
I have argued the position that such is Magnus' brilliance and foresight and his defiance of Chaos, that he not only set Ahriman on the path to undo all that has been done, but also (without getting into the debate) also put the Blood Ravens in a position to survive in the Loyalists ranks and also help to undo the Legions Infernal. Automatically Appended Next Post: I could also feel sorry for Curze. From what I've heard, he's just too crazy for his own good.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/06 18:51:51
"Well there's something I've been meaning to tell you about the college on the edge of the town. No one should ever go there. You know it's bad, bad, bad. It gets worse every school year, but man those freaking teachers are raaaaad! Yea-YEAH-yeah yeah." -Babycakes - China, Il.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/559359.page#6178253 <--Link to my CSM Army lists. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/06 20:55:53
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Commoragh-bound Peer
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I think there were a number of factors Mortarion chose to ride with Horus over the Emperer personally. The primary being Mort abhorred Psykers. now how logical that is...questionable when you look at the fact that Horus and his ilk were siding with the very fuel those Psykers use...
Mort never really liked the Emp though in the grand scheme. the dude shows up on a planet that he had unified and trained to fight the freaks who lived on the mountain including his adopted father, and straight up tells him i'm not following you unless you can prove you're better than me. Some hints right there as to Mortarion's inner workings imo. The Emp wins so Mort, true to his word, signs on but then proceeds to neglect nearly every member of the Death Guard not from Barbarus again shows his inherent self-centered nature.
so imo it was only a matter of time for him, he saw a chance to escape something he was never truly fully on board with and took it. off topic so i apologize...even as a big Mort fan i cannot find any sympathy for him.
i personally voted Magnus (1k sons was a great novel imo)...i recognize that his path was not necessarily pure or wholesome but, at the same time his Legion was cursed from day one and a lot of his decisions to break regs and dabble in the Warp was to help save his brethren. Hhe didn't follow orders and ended up paying the price but the sequence of events that lead to their fall was just brutal and you could nearly feel his heart breaking as the snowball grew with each step he took. Ahrimann remains one of my favorite characters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/06 21:09:18
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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TheRedWingArmada wrote:Didn't Fulgrim also purge the Daemon that possessed his body, thus attaining true Daemonhood himself and also erasing whatever sympathy you could've had for him?
Yes. However, that merely puts him in the camp of other Primarchs who had a sympathetic fall but then went on to be douchebags immediately after their fall and therefore vilify themselves.
It's hard to take seriously the assertion that Fulgrim was most "villanous" of traitor primarchs before and during his fall, considering people like Curze, Lorgar, Mortarion and Angron exist.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/06 21:14:07
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Fulgrim didn't purge the daemon. He told Lucius and the other captains that he had but was later forced by Lorgar to tell the truth.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/06 21:18:21
Subject: Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Wut, really? What story is that in? Aurelian?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 15:13:22
Subject: Re:Which traitor Primarch is the most sympathetic?
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Sinister Chaos Marine
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Whilst I voted Magnus, I think pretty much all of the traitor primarch's were screwed with in one way or another. Whether it was the Big E being a crap dad, chaos putting them in an unwinnable situation so they had to turn to chaos, or the other primarch's just being dicks to them in general, they all have pretty sad stories in the end.
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