Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Got a question about charging into ruins and wondering how everyone plays it or if there is a rule I missed.

If you were to charge a unit in ruins but they are physically behind the wall, which models are considered in base to base contact? All of them or those standing at doors and windows or none because there is a physical wall between the two units.

I'm doing this on a tablet so I could not get nice pictorial representations but I hope you guys get what I mean.

If there is a physical wall between the units, you couldn't have charged, as you need LOS.

Assuming you do have LOS to at least one model in the unit, you move as close as possible and count them as being in base contact.

Assuming it was this terrain piece

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1095506

And the unit is standing at the corner window shooting out. So a charging unit moves directly up to the corner and fights through the window? Or moves around the side of the terrain piece?

Also, the right side of the terrain piece has no open windows. Do models touching both sides of the wall fight or just stand off?

 milkboy wrote:
Assuming it was this terrain piece

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1095506

And the unit is standing at the corner window shooting out. So a charging unit moves directly up to the corner and fights through the window? Or moves around the side of the terrain piece?

Also, the right side of the terrain piece has no open windows. Do models touching both sides of the wall fight or just stand off?

It's worth pointing out it's really up to you and your opponent but you must decide how it will work before the game during the highly suggested pre-game terrain discussion.

 milkboy wrote:
Assuming it was this terrain piece

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1095506

And the unit is standing at the corner window shooting out. So a charging unit moves directly up to the corner and fights through the window? Or moves around the side of the terrain piece?

Also, the right side of the terrain piece has no open windows. Do models touching both sides of the wall fight or just stand off?

The default rules for ruins say that you can move through the solid walls, so you would just move the charging unit right up to the window/wall and fight from that position as the models are allowed to be where the difficult terrain is.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
Assuming it was this terrain piece

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1095506

And the unit is standing at the corner window shooting out. So a charging unit moves directly up to the corner and fights through the window? Or moves around the side of the terrain piece?

Also, the right side of the terrain piece has no open windows. Do models touching both sides of the wall fight or just stand off?

It's worth pointing out it's really up to you and your opponent but you must decide how it will work before the game during the highly suggested pre-game terrain discussion.

No, you dont have to decide how it will work, as the rules allow for a default of "melting" through walls. Only if you wish to change how this operates would you need to discuss this.

Please do not misrepresent the rules, as you continue in these threads to imply that there is no default state. There clearly is, even if it is one you do not appreciate.

Thanks for the input guys! I'll read through the ruins section again. I might have missed it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
Assuming it was this terrain piece

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1095506

And the unit is standing at the corner window shooting out. So a charging unit moves directly up to the corner and fights through the window? Or moves around the side of the terrain piece?

Also, the right side of the terrain piece has no open windows. Do models touching both sides of the wall fight or just stand off?

It's worth pointing out it's really up to you and your opponent but you must decide how it will work before the game during the highly suggested pre-game terrain discussion.

No, you dont have to decide how it will work, as the rules allow for a default of "melting" through walls. Only if you wish to change how this operates would you need to discuss this.

Please do not misrepresent the rules, as you continue in these threads to imply that there is no default state. There clearly is, even if it is one you do not appreciate.

He probably means that you can decide that that particular terrain piece is not a ruin but impassable terrain.

Knowing that poster, and their stated views on Ruins and the default rules, that is unlikely but granted, not impossible.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Knowing that poster, and their stated views on Ruins and the default rules, that is unlikely but granted, not impossible.

You guys always whip out the word default like it means something, if neither player discusses terrain before the game and neither opponent has played the other before you're going to have problems, especially with ruins. For once, ruins have 4 pages of rules and require both players to decide if walkers and mc's are going to be allowed on upper floors. You can also decide to play the walls as essentially impassable terrain in which you must go around, not through.

And again, as always, even if you play the walls as permeable, nothing allows for hypothetical positions and the only way to fight close combat without being in base to base is through floors no walls. You're probably thinking of barricades.



My advice to you milkboy is play ruins in a way that you and your opponent both agree on and you shouldn't run into any surprises. A pre game terrain discussion is essential to a good game.

 Crablezworth wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Knowing that poster, and their stated views on Ruins and the default rules, that is unlikely but granted, not impossible.

You guys always whip out the word default like it means something, if neither player discusses terrain before the game and neither opponent has played the other before you're going to have problems, especially with ruins.

IF you don't discuss them, there are certain rules which simply apply. For one, walkers and MCs cannot be allowed on upper floors. For another, walls are permeable. We know that because that's what the rules say, and that they say you can have a discussion to change them.

For once, ruins have 4 pages of rules and require both players to decide if walkers and mc's are going to be allowed on upper floors. You can also decide to play the walls as essentially impassable terrain in which you must go around, not through.

Neither of which is the default position of the rules.

 Crablezworth wrote:
You guys always whip out the word default like it means something,

Umm.... it does.

It means that, unless you change the rules, the default rules are what you use in a game, not just in a game, in every game. Unless you change the rules of course.

if neither player discusses terrain before the game and neither opponent has played the other before you're going to have problems, especially with ruins.

Not true, default rules exist for a reason.

For once, ruins have 4 pages of rules and require both players to decide if walkers and mc's are going to be allowed on upper floors.

If you want to change the rules and let MC's and walkers on upper floors...

The default is that they are not allowed there.

You can also decide to play the walls as essentially impassable terrain in which you must go around, not through.

Sure, and you could change the rules and make charge ranges 4D3 or make run moves 4 inches instead of a d6. There are a lot of ways to change the rules.

And again, as always, even if you play the walls as permeable, nothing allows for hypothetical positions and the only way to fight close combat without being in base to base is through floors no walls. You're probably thinking of barricades.

Except, you know, the rules that allow models to be where they physically can not be placed. just use WMS this solves a lot of issues.

My advice to you milkboy is play ruins in a way that you and your opponent both agree on and you shouldn't run into any surprises. A pre game terrain discussion is essential to a good game.

Also if you do not have a pre game ruin discussion then using the default is always the best option.

 Crablezworth wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Knowing that poster, and their stated views on Ruins and the default rules, that is unlikely but granted, not impossible.

You guys always whip out the word default like it means something,

In this case, it does. The rules set out a basic way of playing if you do not agree to alter the rules. Thus, these are the default rules for playing ruins, difficult terrrain, etc. In fact the rulebook is default, as you can change any rule with agreeement...

Crablezworth wrote:if neither player discusses terrain before the game and neither opponent has played the other before you're going to have problems, especially with ruins.

More hyperbole. We are saying NOT discussing melting through walls is fine; you then pretend we are saying do not discuss any terrain at all. Dont.

Crablezworth wrote:For once, ruins have 4 pages of rules and require both players to decide if walkers and mc's are going to be allowed on upper floors.

Wrong, the default is that they cannot. IF you discuss this you CAN agree they can, same as you CAN agree difficult terrain is 4D3 pick the two highest.

Crablezworth wrote:You can also decide to play the walls as essentially impassable terrain in which you must go around, not through.

...and if you do not make that explicit change the rules treat them as passable.

Almost like that is the default position.

To sum up: we know yuour position, and that you like to pretend there is no default for playing MCs, melting through walls of ruins etc. That latter just isnt true, so stop asserting otherwise as that breaks the tenets of this dorum.

The fact they say you can c hange the rules in X, Y, Z sapecific situations is irrelevant, as two players can decide to alter the rules anywhere in the rulebook if they wish.