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Tourney coming up, allies this times but no fortifications. Here is what I have so far. Pretty shooty and mecha heavy.
HQ
Belial

Troops
10 DWT AC and HF
2 X 10 man Tactical squad with PG and PC in Rhino
Scout Squad with Sniper Rifles and ML + Camo Cloaks

Elites
Dreadnaught with HF replacing SB in drop pod
Dreadnaught with TL LC

Heavy Support
TFC

3 round tourney with 2,5 hours per round. Want to bring lots of troops as one map has 5 objective, 2nd is straight up Kill the Xenos and third is the scorching. This comes in 25 points over cost so will need to pare down some. I have access to a wide variety of DA stuff and some other SM models. This seems like a fair mix of anti infantry with the Termies and Dread in DP providing hopefully enough behind the lines chaos to keep them more shooty armies from just gunning me down. The Rhinos will sit and blast with Plasma unless I need to go wide open to get into melee. See how far I get before they pop and I am foot slogging it. Seems like a lot more models than I normally run with no bikes and only 10 termies. Thoughts?

Combat Squads can and do count towards your total for non-reserves, you can take advantage of this and drop a Dreadnought and half a Tactical Squad and hopefully give you some room to fit something else to Outflank/Deepstrike. Dark Angels can get a brutal Turn 1 behind-your-lines-and-shooting-you-strike. The Drop Pod keeps any deep-striking units within 6" from scattering if you take the Locator Beacon. The back-field for you is a gamble, if your marines can't handle themselves back-field you might be in for some pain, but all of those marines should be fairly durable in most cases. Combat-Squad like mad and use Krak Grenades in each squad if you get big threats coming your way. If your terminators are wiped out, then the opponent is still on the other end of the board, hopefully lacking scoring units. They will then have to make the march of pain against your plasma and bolter/sniper spam. Enjoy!

That's my two cents, I'm no expert at competitive play, but that's how I'd approach it. As it stands it's a great list, but that'd be the only thing I'd change. Have fun at the tourney.

Unless your touny has special rules this list is illegal. You would need a second HQ and one of your troops to be from the allied detachment if you want to take the TFC.

I would split up the termies and add some bikes to help with target saturation. Dreads are not that great as they can be easily popped and don't really add that much damage. I think more termies or bikes would be the best bet for this list.

I have tons of Termies and some Black knights but really like the fluff of giant walking mechs, I know they are fair at best. I thought I could just take parts of allies, wasn't aware I needed HQ and troops. Would be easy to make on unit of Tacticals SM but not sure of HQ. Open to suggestions. I could fit in bikes easily but don't find them as useful as I would like. I feel I would need massive amounts of them to make them viable. My opinion and I only have 6, 2 Attack bikes and 2 Land Speeders for Fast Attack. I have 30 or so Termies and 5 DW Knights. Termies are great except clumped up against plasma, which is pretty popular.

For the price of the 2 Dreads I can fit 5 more Termies, maybe 6...

I would recommend a Librarian for the HQ, sadly you can't take Divination as it's not DA Librarian. Take any flavour you want, keep it dirt cheap and simply filler/support. I use Librarians as my cheap go-to HQ choice, for 25 points less than a Company Master usually it's a decent choice.

For the bike ideas, use Black Knights with Rad Grenades to drop T4 models to T3 and instagib IC's and anything T4 with Plasma. Since this is competitive, to take into account the other enemies, use the Stasis Grenades to drop some CC-centered units to more manageable giblets, use the Knights as support for Terminators, maybe Knight+Knight Grenade Help -> Charge w/ DW Knights -> Charge with Black Knights for HoW and extra hits, with dropped initiative, hopefully wiping a whole unit on the charge.

If you want Dreadnoughts, stick with what you have, but maybe only take one if you're going to be running Tacticals at all imho. You have them built perfectly for your list, but price may be an issue. I don't know about the TFC, but I've heard they're quite good.
If you could drop Dreads, fit in a DW Command Squad? Slap a banner of fortitude or company banner on them and smile as your Turn 1 terminators all have FNP on top of everything else unholy (combo with DW Knights to cause rage).

So after following some advice, and buying a box of Black Knights, my list looks like this.

Belial

DW CS with Banner of Fortitude and AC

DWT squad X 10 with AC and HF

DWK squad

RAS squad with AB
RAS squad with AB

RWBK squad with GL

lots of hard as nails groups. Will keep all Termies in Reserve and scout turn 1 if I go first and hide if not. f I do go first it would mean a wall of either T4 2+ AS some 3++ invuln and FNP or T5 with 3+ or 4+ jink and FNP. The shooting should be pretty rugged too. If I have to hide back to survive turn one won't be as impressive but still solid.

Unless that 10 man squad is in two groups you still have an illegal list as you only have 1 troop choice.

I like the list better as you have some mobility and added firepower. However this is a 24" army deepstriking helps but if your opponent spreads out and has good range you will not be able to reach them and do damage.

Also looking at this you are about 1600 points so you will need to scale things back

Belial 190

DWCS with banner of fort and AC 325

DWT X 5 AC 240
DWT X 5 HF 230

DW Knights 235

RAS with AB 125
RAS with AB 125

RWBK with GL 126

Yeah it is over lol... Looks like losing an RAS squad and adding plasma leftover or something like that. Thanks for the catch.


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On second thought I will likely have to drop CS for another DWT squad with AC and drop an AB. That would leave me enough to add one plasma to each bike group. Anyone else see a better alternative?

Command Squads are one of the things that make DA DA, imho I'd keep a banner of some kind just for the extra "mmph" it puts through. If you must then I'd say drop a RAS and invest in Marines or something similar mayhaps? TBH not entirely sure what I'd do, the AC could be swapped for something else like a PC, Plasma is a bit tougher to come by in your list and on turn 1 (or 2) that's a TL'd Plasma Cannon.

If you know there will be a decent amount of 3+ Armour going around I'd recommend pimping out with extra plasma. Plasma has never failed me with its versatility and abundance with DA. The RWBK will bring the pain with their little bundle of fun, which is great, again, for taking out IC's or poorly-placed Characters in blobs.

If you must drop the DWCS, which if you decide plasma is the way to go, it looks like you should. Then I'd say put in some extra Black Knights if you have them lying around, or simply pimp out with plasma. Maybe take a cheap Marine squad somewhere for the back-lines. If you want to be really silly, if you drop the CS you can field ~2 scout sniper squads, solving troop issues for ~120 points base. Toss in some extra termies, bikes, plasma, etc to make your vanguard strike all the more devastating.

FirePainter brings up a very good point though, your bane will be spread out lists, though daisy-chaining can be very amusing. The benefit of the scout-spam is that gives you a 36" (Albeit semi-weak) back field that will ping out shots to slow down attackers (yay pinning). It also balances out your reserves a bit more letting you outflank/deepstrike more. Outflank is insanely good if you can get it 2nd turn and get a useful side. I wouldn't recommend outflanking scouts unless you have a good reason to...as scouts are rather bad at anything except sitting and pinging at the enemy. Trade out for a Tactical 10-man combat-squaded for Plasma Cannon/Gun and the same 2 slots. Plasma is good, it is almost guaranteed to take some form troop out.
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Hope you find something that works out for you, any idea what you'll be going against?

If you want to run an allied Codex Marines detachment, I humbly suggest White Scars. Take a captain in a bike. Either go tanky with a TH/SS or straight up bring the Burning Brand as his only upgrade for at initiative AP2. This way the compulsory troop choice would be bikers that are just as effective (if not moreso) than your Ravenwing guys, can still function in the same capacity as your Ravenwing if you give the Sgt. a teleport homer, and you'll have access to relentless Grav Guns. That chapter tactic doesn't help the TFC perform any better but it really doesn't need one to be worth the purchase. You could also bring for the allied detachment a Stormtalon with a missile launcher or lascannon as it's pretty cheap, mobile, effective anti-air which is something Dark Angels desperately lack.

I expect generally fairly rudimentary lists. We have a pretty inexperienced and smaller collections group. I don't want to be completely cheesy, hence the somewhat inder powered DA as opposed to building Tau, but I do want to be competitive against the one or two guys that may bring higher tier armies. I am torn whether to go DW RW or just spam devestator squads, scouts and plasma squads in Rhino's with one Drop pod full of Termies. Thanks for all the help.


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I will also likely skip allies at this point unless I go vanilla marines.

In terms of competitiveness RW are the strongest out of our book. You can either go with biker spam and the banner of devastation or use lots of black knights and biker command squads. DW in my not so biased opinion are the most awesome army type but in this edition they have way to many things stacked against them. Unless its for fun I rarely bring more than 1 or 2 squads of termies (usually 1 is DW knights). Dev spam is okay and we do it better than C:SM because of divination but its still not great.

My advice is to play the army that you want. Bikers are more competitive and require more skill. Termies are not competitive but are the most awesome, greenwing can work but needs banners and support to be effective. Mixedwing also can work but finding the right balance is tough. Allies can help, if I were to take any it would be for TFC, sternguard, or stormtalons for air support, while keeping our bikers for the majority of the army.

Thanks FirePainter. I may go DW with Rhino Troop back up. At 1500 it is a little tight for banner but would love to run dual wing. Anyhow, thanks again for advice.

Ishamael wrote:
I expect generally fairly rudimentary lists. We have a pretty inexperienced and smaller collections group. I don't want to be completely cheesy, hence the somewhat inder powered DA as opposed to building Tau, but I do want to be competitive against the one or two guys that may bring higher tier armies. I am torn whether to go DW RW or just spam devestator squads, scouts and plasma squads in Rhino's with one Drop pod full of Termies. Thanks for all the help.


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I will also likely skip allies at this point unless I go vanilla marines.

Tourneys are the environment TO bring cheese...

Lol I hear you. Wee are fairly new to the tourney scene though. I think final list will look something like this.

Belial 190

DW Termies X 5 with HF 230

2 X DW Termies X 5 with AC 240 each

DW Knights X 5 235

2 X RAS squad 5 man with 2 X Plasma 110 each

RW Black Knights with GL 126

1481 with 19 points for.. maybe 3 chainfists for DW squads. No banner but 3 troop choices and fast attack will count as troops for final scenario. 6 plasma bikes and GL with 16 termies. Any last thoughts? Tourney is this Sunday.

Thanks again.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could also proxy 3 of the bikes as another Blabk Knight squad with the 19 points. We aren't that hard on WYSIWYG. That might be best bet. 21 Termies 9 bikes with 6 plasma guns.