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What are the best ways to run each of the respective Phoenix Lords? I was thinking about running Asurmen, but couldnt figure out what unit to put him in to get the most out of his choppy-ness.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
What are the best ways to run each of the respective Phoenix Lords? I was thinking about running Asurmen, but couldnt figure out what unit to put him in to get the most out of his choppy-ness.

Asurman can go with anyone...giving a unit counterattack automatically increases their worth.

A few lords go with their aspects but many don't.

Karandras should go with Scorpions and infiltrate in enemy face.

Fuegan should not enter a dragon squad as it's overly redundant, I'd throw him in a DA squad with a shimmershield.

Baharroth goes with Hawks and against the occassional opponent you'll deepstrike in the middle of their lines (not common)

Maugen Ra goes with anything that sits still...rangers, reapers, guardians with a platform...vauls wrath.

Jain Zar...do you still exist?

Irillyth stays with Shadow Spectres and they do what they do.

Drazhar should ride with some Incubi in a Paper Airplane until they find something to shred.

There are quite a few pages nearly exactly like this.... use the search tool please

Asurmen has counter attack, but the test is model specific, meaning only he has it, regardless of unit he is in. He goes good just about anywhere where you plan on getting up close and personal. A good choice for wraithguard/blades of any flavor. Decent with guardians or avengers. His main boost is that he is a freaking tank, capable of having multiple warlord traits. Lots of potential, but totally luck dependent.

Karandras can be used to infiltriate/outflank wraithguard, which is outright silly. Fuegan can go with any squad up close due to split fire. The dire avenger shimmershield is a good combo, but it works with other units.

Jain zar is a crappier Asurmen for wraithguard...

 ductvader wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
What are the best ways to run each of the respective Phoenix Lords? I was thinking about running Asurmen, but couldnt figure out what unit to put him in to get the most out of his choppy-ness.

Asurman can go with anyone...giving a unit counterattack automatically increases their worth.

A few lords go with their aspects but many don't.

Karandras should go with Scorpions and infiltrate in enemy face.

Fuegan should not enter a dragon squad as it's overly redundant, I'd throw him in a DA squad with a shimmershield.

Baharroth goes with Hawks and against the occassional opponent you'll deepstrike in the middle of their lines (not common)

Maugen Ra goes with anything that sits still...rangers, reapers, guardians with a platform...vauls wrath.

Jain Zar...do you still exist?

Irillyth stays with Shadow Spectres and they do what they do.

Drazhar should ride with some Incubi in a Paper Airplane until they find something to shred.

Haha, I see what you did there

Harlequins, preferably DE ones, I don't care which P.Lord (except Baharroth), they can go with Harequins and be fine. Jain Zar is really under estimated, she is really good, her aspect isn't, but she sure is. A good shooting attack, 5 Ws higher then you attacks with shred with disarming strike, she is an extremely good challenger. Why on earth would you want Ra standing still? He has an assault weapon and a power weapon, keeping him back would be a huge waste. Asurman is a HQ that won't die and is a good in a Warlord vs Warlord fight, but other then that I find him t expensive for only 4 attacks and a bad-ish shooting attack. Karandras is the winner for me, Str 8 is MASSIVE vs so many opponents, while he isn't a unit shredder like Jain Zar or a Warlord killer like Asurman, he is a great unit in the middle who can also do AV and A-MC. Baharroth is a great P.Lord, probs the most useful in a competitive list as he will ALWAYS do something which isn't always true with the others. I don't have much experience with Fuegan but imagine he is a great character on line with Karandras.

So in my humble opinion, the viability of P.Lords ranks like this.

Baharroth
Karandras/Fuegan
Asurman
Jain Zar/Dazhar
Maugan Ra

Karandras does well infiltrating with pretty much any infiltration unit that will want to be close to the enemy. If you play as IC infiltrating works on units then a unit of wraithguard with scythes is brutal and awesome.

Fuegan is great with a shadow council for spammed renews. You can then put him with some wraithblades to get a better Toughness and automatic LoS and a bunch of challenge monkeys (helm). This can be brutal if you play someone who cannot dance around the deathstar.

Baharroth with Hawks. He does alright but I am not hugely impressed. He can also do alright by DS with warp spiders. He can even be used to tank heldrake flamings.

Maugen Ra has SnP so he can move all he wants. In fact due to range issues you should not put him with a unit that will sit at your board edge. He can be good in a unit of harlequins but I have not been impressed by him yet.

Jain Zar is actually the best codex phoenix lord. Stick her in the same unit as Lelith Hesperax in any tough to kill melee unit (wraithblades with spirit seers or DE harlies) and when you reach the opponent you will drink tears, lelith combos with Jain to give you a huge number of attacks against any opponent. If you get the right buffs this unit can become the absolute most damaging melee unit you have seen.

Irillyth is a beast. He is actually at his best in a jetseer council as he gives a massive number of combos with the psychic powers of the council and their buffs can make him god like. His movement isn't such a big deal either as he can be used as a pivot point for the council to chain about. He is alright in a Shadow Spectre unit but somewhat wasted.

Asurman is alright. He can pretty much go with anything and make them tougher and more killy in CC. He can combo well with leadership debuffs from psychic powers or Irillyth however he tends to be a little harder to keep with these units. He cannot supercharge or tank as well as fuegan nor can he overcharge another characters attacks like Jain. If you can manage to get the leadership debuffs off and Asurman in the right combat he is amazing.

Something fun: Jain Zar and Karandras, together, in a squad of Wraithblades rocking the axes. Jain's mask guarantees Karandras will *always* go before what he wants to super punch to death, and usually drops the initiative of anything not eldar or daemonic down to 1 so the wraiths get to slap things silly.

It's too expensive to run "competitively" but it is fun to me that Jain and Karandras are super best friends for life the way they compliment each other on the table.

Added: I almost forgot, Fuegan is beast with a foot council. Let him tank. If he gets hurt, oh well. Chances are you've got at least one warlock who rolled the power that can restore wounds lost earlier in the battle. Makes Fuegan similar to the Hulk, as he'll continue to have his strength grow and grow every time he takes a wound, and the council just patches him up again. Strength gains remain.

How is Irillyth a beast with seer council (i'm guessing with the shooting)? What makes him better then barroth for the cost of 245pts? His gun is sweet, but he has no CC (though he has hit and run, and haywire nades) And the fear thing is cool.

I haven't tested it yet, but I thought it'd be a nasty mix to have Jain lead a group of Scorpions with an Exarch. Yes, you lose infiltrate, but you would give Jain stealth, so if the unit's obscured you can LOS! onto another member, and let Jain tank the normal saves on her 2+. Or put them in a Serpent and hop out turn one for a 6" boost.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Something fun: Jain Zar and Karandras, together, in a squad of Wraithblades rocking the axes. Jain's mask guarantees Karandras will *always* go before what he wants to super punch to death, and usually drops the initiative of anything not eldar or daemonic down to 1 so the wraiths get to slap things silly.

It's too expensive to run "competitively" but it is fun to me that Jain and Karandras are super best friends for life the way they compliment each other on the table.

Added: I almost forgot, Fuegan is beast with a foot council. Let him tank. If he gets hurt, oh well. Chances are you've got at least one warlock who rolled the power that can restore wounds lost earlier in the battle. Makes Fuegan similar to the Hulk, as he'll continue to have his strength grow and grow every time he takes a wound, and the council just patches him up again. Strength gains remain.

I've experienced this first hand. Fuegaan tanking for a unit. Dakka flyrant puts two wounds on him. Stupid me forgets rule. Dakkaflyrant charges. Fuegan laughs with much gusto as his str 8 I7 ass splaks the Tyrant.

 Arbiter wrote:
How is Irillyth a beast with seer council (i'm guessing with the shooting)? What makes him better then barroth for the cost of 245pts? His gun is sweet, but he has no CC (though he has hit and run, and haywire nades) And the fear thing is cool.

You are looking at old rules. New ones are here http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/Irillyth-2.pdf Check out the special rule for his CC weapon!

Holy crap. I hadn't seen the new-NEW Irillyth. I just saw the one they did when they did the Badab characters update, which didn't include the melee option on his gun. That's freakin' awesome.

@Astro: It's pretty silly, right? I love it.

Anyway Extremefreak, I was talking with some friends tonight about Asurmen because I too think it's just too cool for school. We decided he's great in that you can adjust what you'd want to attach him to depending on how well you rolled on the Warlord table. Get Fate's Messenger? Stick him with some Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent that turbo-boosts first turn, then stick him in the front of the squad so he takes all the wounds. 2+ rerollables! Whee!

He rolls Mark of the Incomparable Hunter? Stick him with some Dark Reapers you've got manning the Aegis Defense Line. Need to shoot a flyer? Great, just have the one guy do it. Exarch upgraded with a silly gun that's better shooting another target than the rest of the squad? Great, split fire that one too.

Ambush of Blades, Eye of Distant Events and Falcon's Swiftness are all great if you stick him with some Striking Scorpions. Him getting to infil with them is a matter you'd have to take up with the player you're facing, but a lot of people say IC's with Infil confer it to a squad. Same logic would go vice-versa, the way Infiltrate is worded.

If you roll 6, I'd just stick him with whatever was rolling forward in a wave serpent, so you'd have a 6" bubble around the serpent rather than just him for your Warp Spiders to arrive and not scatter.

Seems to me he's a great buy in an army built around aspect warriors.

Ignoring the warlord traits to focus on him actually hurting things in battle, we also decided it'd be fun to run him in a foot council with the hopes you'd get some with Embolden/Horrify. Drop Horrify once or twice on the enemy warlord with T5/EW/2+ Armor and watch them fail their leadership check against the Diresword so they still instantly die to a single wound.

I like the fact that theres some love for Jain Zar, I feel like she is underestimated because of sisters. I feel like even putting her with a squad of Banshees on foot is viable because the sheer amount of movement they can roll is capable of covering quite a distance. This could put them into a good position to strike at a unit thats been shot to bits earlier or assist in an existing melee or even using the large movement capabilities, use as a counter assault unit to keep your lines from falling.

-CotW