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TiamatRoar wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

Theyre pretty much WW1.
Theyre not just based off it on looks. WW1 was nearly entirely consistent of death charges, one of the main components to Dkok battle strategy. WW1 also largely based upon trench and siege warfare, lo and behold another trait of the Death Korps. Gas masks. Trench coats. Massive artillery. More and more.
No, obviously WW1 troops were not cloned, or given serial numbers. Yes, theyre a dramatization. But what in 40K arent? The Death korps were based upon the troops of WW1. In order to work these values in, youve got to add backstory. What better way to justify stupidely massive charges than an unbreakable willingness to die? And what better way to symbolize the untold millions who died in said tactics, than making them all faceless?

I suppose what we have here is a disagreement over what was the symptom and what was the cause (IE, are they based off of WW1 with the faceless mook tropes being added on to complement that, or are they based off of faceless mooks with the WW1 tropes being added for flavor. Or both at the same time).

Has GW or Forgeworld ever directly stated what the main or original inspiration/purpose/theme was? Or are you just speculating how their design process went? (I'll admit that I am, myself)

They are based of the following Nationalities, French, Belgium, German and English soldiers. And yes WW1 was as mentioned more or less just a endless meatgrinder, witch men where thrown into

 Furyou Miko wrote:
For the Adepta Sororitas to go to war requires a unanimous approval from all twelve High Lords of Terra.

It does? Not sure that's the case. The AS codex only mentions the Ecclesiarch needing to declare a war of faith. Then, of course, there's plenty of instances where the Sisters can come under attack themselves anyway.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Actually, I could very much see a Sister doing that in order to prevent the grenade from, say, blasting her squadmates.

Ah, I meant specifically to die, for the purposes of that example. All I was trying to get acorss is that they're not actively seeking death.

 Troike wrote:
All I was trying to get acorss is that they're notm actively seeking death.

Their indoctrination should make them much less prone to seeking a glorious death than marines or ordinary troops. Humility, self-denial, service - hubris and glory-seeking would be sins to them. A Sister that started dreaming of becoming famous for something would probably report herself to the Canoness for penance.

 Melissia wrote:
Frag weapons can't easily get through power armor, so she'd probably just kick it away instead.

Mind you, many Sisters go to battle helmetless.

Frag weapons do indeed have trouble with PA, but not with exposed skin. If a grenade explodes close enough to an unhelmeted SoB, they may very well get their face shredded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Troike wrote:
Ah, I meant specifically to die, for the purposes of that example. All I was trying to get acorss is that they're not actively seeking death.

Fair enough.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Mind you, many Sisters go to battle helmetless.

Frag weapons do indeed have trouble with PA, but not with exposed skin. If a grenade explodes close enough to an unhelmeted SoB, they may very well get their face shredded.

I have to say, I'm unsure about whether this is meant as actual fluff. Many of the models being helmetless may've been done as a modelling decision of some sort. Certainly don't think that studio fluff has ever said anything about it,

 Troike wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Mind you, many Sisters go to battle helmetless.

Frag weapons do indeed have trouble with PA, but not with exposed skin. If a grenade explodes close enough to an unhelmeted SoB, they may very well get their face shredded.

I have to say, I'm unsure about whether this is meant as actual fluff. Many of the models being helmetless may've been done as a modelling decision of some sort. Certainly don't think that studio fluff has ever said anything about it,

Well... While it's true that the scale is often straight to hell on the models, designwise I believe things are rather fluffy.

I'd see no issues with taking the models as our cue in this specific case.

Of course, going to war unhelmeted without a force field or something to protect you is often very unwise; those many long years of training and experience, not to mention all that flashy gear, matters little when a crazy civilian who got his hands on a pistol is blowing your brains out because you have no helm.

It's why I have modeled almost all of my CSM with helmets, myself. (The only one that is unhelmeted has a nice forcefield protecting the head.)

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I'd see no issues with taking the models as our cue in this specific case.

Yeah, honestly, I'm unsure. I could have just been an attempt to go "look, these are women" rather than any real fluff decision. But maybe not. I'd be interested to see what SoB plastics were like, in this regard.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Of course, going to war unhelmeted without a force field or something to protect you is often very unwise; those many long years of training and experience, not to mention all that flashy gear, matters little when a crazy civilian who got his hands on a pistol is blowing your brains out because you have no helm.

Right, this is why I'm doubtful. It seems like a pretty big tactical blunder to make, if we're taking the models as fact. And the Sisters certainly do have helmets. Nice looking ones too.

 Troike wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I'd see no issues with taking the models as our cue in this specific case.

Yeah, honestly, I'm unsure. I could have just been an attempt to go "look, these are women" rather than any real fluff decision. But maybe not. I'd be interested to see what SoB plastics were like, in this regard.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Of course, going to war unhelmeted without a force field or something to protect you is often very unwise; those many long years of training and experience, not to mention all that flashy gear, matters little when a crazy civilian who got his hands on a pistol is blowing your brains out because you have no helm.

Right, this is why I'm doubtful. It seems like a pretty big tactical blunder to make, if we're taking the models as fact. And the Sisters certainly do have helmets. Nice looking ones too.

I heard somewhere that the reason why they do it is because their own senses are heightened and so much better than the artificial ones in the helmet that they would prefer to have the heightened senses than any sort of face protection.
But I think its stupid too.

No, that's the Space Wolves.

Jollydevil wrote:
I heard somewhere that the reason why they do it is because their own senses are heightened and so much better than the artificial ones in the helmet that they would prefer to have the heightened senses than any sort of face protection.

Nah, their senses are those of a normal human. Albeit, a well-trained soldier.

The helmet itself provides benefits anyway. It has a rebreather, full-spectrum filtering and limited psycho-oculal buffering.

Well, Dark Heresy fluffs it as "Sisters have to earn their helmets in battle", which is pants-on-head slowed. >>

None of my bolter-sisters wear helmets because I cannibalized the helmeted bolter-sisters for use as Rubric Marines. Ehe.

For a while, before GW closed down its bitz selling, I bought almost exclusively helmeted Sisters, myself.

Jegus I feel old saying that.

I remember that. I remember talking to the Trollz on the phone when I wanted to order certain Covenant bits for a wraithseer conversion.

Just remembering that doesn't make you old :p

I sometimes feel like I missed the golden age for the Sisters. Would have liked to have ordered a load of helmeted Sisters to represent an elite squad, or something like that.

The krieg are effective, just with incredibly high casualty rates. The point of a death charge is that eventually, no matter how many they cut down, the enemy will be overwhelmed with kriegsmen, and either break, fall back, or become open to new methods of attack.
I cant speak for SoB, but given the right amount of manpower, sure theyre effective. But theyre pretty much meat grinder troops (albeit damn good ones).

I was more talking about the DKOK. Keep in mind their not in imitation of WWI tactics that actually worked, their in imitation of meatgrinders like Verdun massing infantry while spreading out armoured vehicles means that the infantry get gunned down by machine guns and the tanks get isolated and taken out.

I'd go with guard regiments that are based on the Blitkrieg tactics like the Elysians and the Tallarn.

We are talking about the personalities of the DKOK right?.

I would say: Yes they are non-fearing fanatical WW1 imitations…But remember, the IOM just writes a load of glorious Propaganda.

I can imagine a lot of DKOK guardsmen being blown to pieces…Trapped in barbed wire…Shot full of lead, and hating it. I can imagine them crying out loud for maybe some sort of person near to a friend to help them…i can imagine them screaming for help whilst they die slowly in agony.

The DKOK aren't genetically modified for no fear or anything else.

They are just broken and brainwashed to die horribly so that they can ensure victory for the IOM whilst them and their comrades fester in a unknown mass grave in a unknown planet somewhere.

They are bought up for death…its their peak in life…whilst a Cadian guardsman's goal would be to have a family or get married…a Kreiger's is just to like i said….fester in a pit full of rotten corpses without a name or grave for the Big E.

Millions of Kreigers must have at the point of death, think "Well this was for nothing, this is horrible, and i don't want to die"…

But they are just silenced by their Quartermaster or Commissar. They scream in a muzzled voice of their Gas masks and beg for help….but they are shot.

And this is what makes them so much similar to every solider in the WW1 front…they are brainwashed and told they are going to fight for good of god…and they have no fear…but when the point came for them to maybe die…they were unprepared.

All the IOM say about them being "Unbreakable all the way to death" is rubbish…yes they are unbreakable, yes they are inhuman…but they still feel terrible pain and horror…

The whole situation for the DKOK is all based around death and sins basically…a bleak understanding that you are going to die horribly and you are not getting anything from it….

Sad really.



PS.

Last page someone mentioned Kreigsmen out with their families.

They are grown in Viate womb, they have no family…they are tube babies mostly.

And they would never go out with family, the son would probably join too, if there was chance the kreig father died.
Some where it mentions throned or spiked helmets are passed down from surviving Kreigsmen to sons…SURVIVING. They only really get a chance at getting a family if they survive the horrors, which is rare…and psychological problems would probably get the kreigsman in even more trouble.

Sad really.

Makes you wonder why they don't go renegade, wearing spikes, and getting really edgy.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

Sad really.

Makes you wonder why they don't go renegade, wearing spikes, and getting really edgy.

Yeah…

I think some Chaos heretics may have come from DKOK troops such as members of the Blood Pact, who have the same helmet and design as them…just horned.

Because they don't? They actually want to die to an extreme (but not in vain! That's important, otherwise they would just mass suicide) for the Emperor.

Their final exercise is a live fire assault of a ruined city on Krieg, if they had any doubts about death and whatnot, it would happen there, but no, they don't care, at all.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Because they don't? They actually want to die to an extreme (but not in vain! That's important, otherwise they would just mass suicide) for the Emperor.

Their final exercise is a live fire assault of a ruined city on Krieg, if they had any doubts about death and whatnot, it would happen there, but no, they don't care, at all.

I agree with you…i really do. Theres no doubt most Kreigers just want to die a glorious fanatical death for the big E.

But I'm saying there must be some amounts of them who are absolutely scared out of their wits and in agony in blood soaked mud. And that they scream for help and everything.

About the training in the ruins too. They aren't fighting hulking space lizards who want to eat their brains. But still, I'm only talking about a few. The rest are totally all for the glorious death, theres no doubt about that.

There must be some guy scared senseless under a gas mask somewhere in Kreig though.

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Because they don't? They actually want to die to an extreme (but not in vain! That's important, otherwise they would just mass suicide) for the Emperor.

Their final exercise is a live fire assault of a ruined city on Krieg, if they had any doubts about death and whatnot, it would happen there, but no, they don't care, at all.

I agree with you…i really do. Theres no doubt most Kreigers just want to die a glorious fanatical death for the big E.

But I'm saying there must be some amounts of them who are absolutely scared out of their wits and in agony in blood soaked mud. And that they scream for help and everything.

About the training in the ruins too. They aren't fighting hulking space lizards who want to eat their brains. But still, I'm only talking about a few. The rest are totally all for the glorious death, theres no doubt about that.

There must be some guy scared senseless under a gas mask somewhere in Kreig though.

Noooo.

That would make them deep.

We can't have that.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Because they don't? They actually want to die to an extreme (but not in vain! That's important, otherwise they would just mass suicide) for the Emperor.

Their final exercise is a live fire assault of a ruined city on Krieg, if they had any doubts about death and whatnot, it would happen there, but no, they don't care, at all.

I agree with you…i really do. Theres no doubt most Kreigers just want to die a glorious fanatical death for the big E.

But I'm saying there must be some amounts of them who are absolutely scared out of their wits and in agony in blood soaked mud. And that they scream for help and everything.

About the training in the ruins too. They aren't fighting hulking space lizards who want to eat their brains. But still, I'm only talking about a few. The rest are totally all for the glorious death, theres no doubt about that.

There must be some guy scared senseless under a gas mask somewhere in Kreig though.

Noooo.

That would make them deep.

We can't have that.

*Cues Mad world to play*

Ive always seen the Kreiger sat with some Cadians in a trench staring hopelessly into the blood soaked battlefield…

I think it suits them.

Aint enough Grimdark for the DKOK

Blood Pact, who have the same helmet and design as them…just horned.


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Archie the Death Rider-Leader of the Death Korp of Kreig 92nd siege regiment

I always wondered if that was true or just an internet rumor. I think Slaanesh is more suiting because heshe is everything that they were denied in life, pride, pleasure, Khorne would probably bore them to death.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

Blood Pact, who have the same helmet and design as them…just horned.


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Archie the Death Rider-Leader of the Death Korp of Kreig 92nd siege regiment

I always wondered if that was true or just an internet rumor. I think Slaanesh is more suiting because heshe is everything that they were denied in life, pride, pleasure, Khorne would probably bore them to death.

Thats probably true, but also remember that the DKOK follow drills and well..attrition warfare all the time.

Going crazy and smashing someone head in would probably be fun for them.
Or Slaneesh would be good, like you said. Pleasures and such you know, would be good for them.

Then again, most of them would probably shoot themselves if they even though they were Chaos tinted.

But im sure, those Blood pact members are Death Korp.



I see a resemblance defiantly

Of course you know that's just fan art from what I understand to be a rather unusual and somewhat offensive artist on deviant art.

I think it's less of a:

Ooh they have the same helmets

And more of a
THEY WEAR NAZI HELMETS CUZ THEY'RE BADDIES HURR HURR
GEDDIT
THE NAZIS WERE BADDIES
AND SO ARE BLOOD PACT
-smacks stapler into my face-

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
I think it's less of a:

Ooh they have the same helmets

And more of a
THEY WEAR NAZI HELMETS CUZ THEY'RE BADDIES HURR HURR
GEDDIT
THE NAZIS WERE BADDIES
AND SO ARE BLOOD PACT
-smacks stapler into my face-

Sadly i think you may be true.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
Of course you know that's just fan art from what I understand to be a rather unusual and somewhat offensive artist on deviant art.

We talking about torture-device?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
I think it's less of a:

Ooh they have the same helmets

And more of a
THEY WEAR NAZI HELMETS CUZ THEY'RE BADDIES HURR HURR
GEDDIT
THE NAZIS WERE BADDIES
AND SO ARE BLOOD PACT
-smacks stapler into my face-

Sadly i think you may be true.

BADDIES YAY HURR HURR
-screams as the stapler is stuck to my eyelid-
-flails-
-dies-
People forget that GW don't understand things like hints or plot.

I find it strange that they would go traitor, considering the only reason the Death Korps is so distinctive is because their ancestor went traitor and they're attoning for that.

I'm wondering, how do we think the SoB and Death Koros would get along? I think that they'd highly respect each other's discipline and fighting effectiveness. But the passionately zealous Sisters might be unnerved by the coldness of the Death Korps.