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Would a raider with incubi and Vect be a competitive choice over Wyches? Just curious. So far my core is this:

40 Kabalite warriors
10 wyches
Vect
3 Raiders
2 Ravagers
5 Venoms


Wondering what my next purchases should be. Are Incubi worth it? Or should I look towards other things like Wracks? I'm looking for more of a Kabal list than a Coven list for the record. Something to represent Vect's military presence in Commoragh. Thoughts?

I think that Incubi would be a great bodyguard for Vect. However, game-wise I'd prefer Wyches since they have an inv. save in cc.

Are wyches fluffy for Vect to roll with?

Incubi are not really hailed as very good. they never arrive and thats the problem with them. better as a counter attack unit by far and in that role they may do very admirably but not as a front line solution. In fact thats why I dont like Wyches either. You pretty much have to flood the enemy with them for them to be productive.

I like incubi. Fluff wise they are the archons bodyguard and in the game I think there better than wyches. With the Dias and vect they will hit the enemy lines and there high save will help them. Wyches suck in my opinion. And for a buying idea, buy dark elf executioners and pit them on 40k bases. You get 10 for the same price as 5 incubi plus they look a lot better to me.

I have always had great success with Incubi - whether on their own ior escorting an Archon.

They are extremely deadily in Close Combat with high Initiative, good armour, good WS and AP2 weapons.

I love them.

Sadly Wyches are now there to hunt tanks since they are pretty useless in Close Combat - they really don;t match the fluff sadly.

I love Incubis...

The issue, as always, will be how will you deliver them.

I've used them to great effect with Vect's Dias or Tantalus.

Delivering them in a Raider just plain sucks and they'll likely have to hoof it early in the game.

The only problem with the Dais of Destruction is it's point cost... It's practically a land raider, and with Vect you're looking at almost 500 points for just vect and the transport. I take vect for fluff reasons and the alpha strike. He's usually in a raider with 10 wyches. Turbo boost it Turn 1, it'll cause a distraction and when it inevitably explodes, the wyches will protect vect while he harasses the back field from combat to combat.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The only problem with the Dais of Destruction is it's point cost... It's practically a land raider, and with Vect you're looking at almost 500 points for just vect and the transport. I take vect for fluff reasons and the alpha strike. He's usually in a raider with 10 wyches. Turbo boost it Turn 1, it'll cause a distraction and when it inevitably explodes, the wyches will protect vect while he harasses the back field from combat to combat.

Interesting - How do you protect Vect with low T and zero armour models- I find Incubi are much more effective as at least they get a 3+ armour save and are hell on wheels in close combat - whereas Wyches can at best just not die?

Maybe I am misisng something about them?

 ravengatorfan wrote:
I like incubi. Fluff wise they are the archons bodyguard and in the game I think there better than wyches. With the Dias and vect they will hit the enemy lines and there high save will help them. Wyches suck in my opinion. And for a buying idea, buy dark elf executioners and pit them on 40k bases. You get 10 for the same price as 5 incubi plus they look a lot better to me.

Yeah but "better than wyches" isn't saying much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The only problem with the Dais of Destruction is it's point cost... It's practically a land raider, and with Vect you're looking at almost 500 points for just vect and the transport. I take vect for fluff reasons and the alpha strike. He's usually in a raider with 10 wyches. Turbo boost it Turn 1, it'll cause a distraction and when it inevitably explodes, the wyches will protect vect while he harasses the back field from combat to combat.

Interesting - How do you protect Vect with low T and zero armour models- I find Incubi are much more effective as at least they get a 3+ armour save and are hell on wheels in close combat - whereas Wyches can at best just not die?

Maybe I am misisng something about them?

Vest was meant to go with his Court of crazy beasts that have lots of wounds. Not other units like Incubi. People dont use his court but thats how it was envisioned. Put nine crazy beasts in with him, truck them to the fron lines and unleash chaos on the enemy, hoping Vect can protect them from the worst of it, or the Dais could.

Yes, it's an easy thing to miss, but Wyches in a Dias might actually MAKE combat! After that they become arguably a much better bodyguard for Vect for a few things. 1. Invuls beat Armour, always. 2. Wyches aren't as killy, but just killy enough. 5 Incubi + Vect will murderize whatever it touches, then be open to being shot to death, but 7 Wyches + Hektrix will maybe kill 1/2 Marines while Vect kills 4/5. That means you finish them in the oponents turn, a MUCH more preferable option. 3. Wych weapons. Matters more with Bloodbrides but even with normal Wyches those Shardnets really help Vect against MC's he would usually be hesitant to fight 1v1 such as Wraithknights and Greater Daemons. 4. Haywire Grenades, 'Nuff said. 5. Cheaper and less threatening, while the Dias will always attract firepower, You could run a Beaststar running along with the Baron as well as this unit. Both are equally scary but Incubi would probably tip the balance.

Sometimes a unit can suffer from being TOO killy, Incubi is one such unit.

Does Vect's posse really have to be that good? I figured with Vect's bad@ssery, he just needed cheap ablative wounds on the way in to the murderzone.

 ductvader wrote:
Does Vect's posse really have to be that good? I figured with Vect's bad@ssery, he just needed cheap ablative wounds on the way in to the murderzone.

For the same reasons cited above on being too killy, the multiwound bodyguard is ideal for Vect. he wants to not kill things on the charge. Now thats not EASY to do. but its easier when you dont take Incubi!

Incubi are just a tweener unit: dangerous as hell, and ultimately suffering the brunt of target priority because of it. A good army build can take a lot of forms. but my personal philosophy is that you dont want anything in your list to matter so much that you cant lose it, and nothing should be so limited that it cant function usefully when stranded. You see that represented pretty firmly in my lists. Its why you dont see Broadsides in my list, you don't see Deathstars, you don't see LOTS of armor and when there is armor, it's a luxury and not necessity (such as Dirge Casters on empty rhinos that i push forward... I dont truly care if they get there. Its just twice as nice as the points I paid for them if/when they do).

Incubi cant shoot and incubi are too burly to leave alone. the AV 13 helps a ton if they go with Vect but you better be going first! Even then, getting caught out in the open... Its just a lot of points for basically one kill. The multiwound courtiers and such give you a good chance of gettign 2-3 targets a game. Much better retrun.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Yes, it's an easy thing to miss, but Wyches in a Dias might actually MAKE combat! After that they become arguably a much better bodyguard for Vect for a few things. 1. Invuls beat Armour, always. 2. Wyches aren't as killy, but just killy enough. 5 Incubi + Vect will murderize whatever it touches, then be open to being shot to death, but 7 Wyches + Hektrix will maybe kill 1/2 Marines while Vect kills 4/5. That means you finish them in the oponents turn, a MUCH more preferable option. 3. Wych weapons. Matters more with Bloodbrides but even with normal Wyches those Shardnets really help Vect against MC's he would usually be hesitant to fight 1v1 such as Wraithknights and Greater Daemons. 4. Haywire Grenades, 'Nuff said. 5. Cheaper and less threatening, while the Dias will always attract firepower, You could run a Beaststar running along with the Baron as well as this unit. Both are equally scary but Incubi would probably tip the balance.

Sometimes a unit can suffer from being TOO killy, Incubi is one such unit.

Thanks really interesting will think abou it We were playing a big game of DE vs Imperials (6000pts a side) at the weekend and had 5 units of Archons with Incubi and therefore had lots of - "try and kill all but one"

Must admit I have only played with Vect once - he died in the first turn when a st 10 barrage scattered onto him - failed the look out sir AND shadowfield !!

I usually go Duke or basic Archon - tried Llyeth a few times - love her but bless her she dies way too quick.....same with Malys

I just add Vect + 9 Wyches + Dais into my Mechdar.

Very worthwhile.

 Jancoran wrote:

 ravengatorfan wrote:
I like incubi. Fluff wise they are the archons bodyguard and in the game I think there better than wyches. With the Dias and vect they will hit the enemy lines and there high save will help them. Wyches suck in my opinion. And for a buying idea, buy dark elf executioners and pit them on 40k bases. You get 10 for the same price as 5 incubi plus they look a lot better to me.

Yeah but "better than wyches" isn't saying much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The only problem with the Dais of Destruction is it's point cost... It's practically a land raider, and with Vect you're looking at almost 500 points for just vect and the transport. I take vect for fluff reasons and the alpha strike. He's usually in a raider with 10 wyches. Turbo boost it Turn 1, it'll cause a distraction and when it inevitably explodes, the wyches will protect vect while he harasses the back field from combat to combat.

Interesting - How do you protect Vect with low T and zero armour models- I find Incubi are much more effective as at least they get a 3+ armour save and are hell on wheels in close combat - whereas Wyches can at best just not die?

Maybe I am misisng something about them?

Vest was meant to go with his Court of crazy beasts that have lots of wounds. Not other units like Incubi. People dont use his court but thats how it was envisioned. Put nine crazy beasts in with him, truck them to the fron lines and unleash chaos on the enemy, hoping Vect can protect them from the worst of it, or the Dais could.

His beasts? Like beast packs I'm confused...

No his court. The snake and the evil beastie things Vect can truck around with him. theres like 0-3 of thise one and 0-2 of that one and so on. I cannot remember what its called, my codex layeth at home.

I saw something about ap2, where is this Ap2 from Incubi coming from, I only saw AP3 in the book.

FAQ? For the Demiklaves you mean?

Well I'll say one thing about Incubi, they are fun as hell if you can get em to close combat. And they'll make fine bodyguards for Vect. But I also can't think any bigger bullet magnet than Vect + a few incubi.

One great thing about Incubi. You do not lose half of the squad when the raider invariably erupts into a fireball.

Col. Dash wrote:
I saw something about ap2, where is this Ap2 from Incubi coming from, I only saw AP3 in the book.

yep they were FAQed (back when GW did that for the game) and their blades are all AP 2 now

First, Incubi are killers, AND their model is sick. That being said, I play more shooty DE so I don't field them as much.

Next, I (so far) only play Vect with my DE, and I almost always take the Dais. It almost never dies, and always ends up in my opponent's backfield wreaking havoc. I have been putting Splinter Cannon trueborn in the Dais with him armed with haywires as a shooty/assaulty combo pack. I take a bare bones Dracon to suck up challenges, and let Vect absolutely murder everything he touches. I have had success with taking warriors in the Dais as well, but I've been finding I like to keep my troops in their transports where they can get blown up like DE should do.

 Jancoran wrote:
No his court. The snake and the evil beastie things Vect can truck around with him. theres like 0-3 of thise one and 0-2 of that one and so on. I cannot remember what its called, my codex layeth at home.

Sadly it's not 0-2, 0-3 etc.

It's 1-2 or 1-3, which is why almost no-one takes courts.

You HAVE to have a Lhamean (useless as all hell) and an Ur Ghul (Er-why? they suck) before you can take the cool stuff like slyyth and Medusae.

If i could take a court of just Medusae or sllyth i would be a happy archon.

I still run courts on occasion, but not in my serious lists.

 Ascalam wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No his court. The snake and the evil beastie things Vect can truck around with him. theres like 0-3 of thise one and 0-2 of that one and so on. I cannot remember what its called, my codex layeth at home.

Sadly it's not 0-2, 0-3 etc.

It's 1-2 or 1-3, which is why almost no-one takes courts.

You HAVE to have a Lhamean (useless as all hell) and an Ur Ghul (Er-why? they suck) before you can take the cool stuff like slyyth and Medusae.

If i could take a court of just Medusae or sllyth i would be a happy archon.

I still run courts on occasion, but not in my serious lists.

Dude, someone's gotta eat the overwatch. Feed the ones you don't like to the front of the line when you charge, and you're good. Personally, I love the Sslyth, so I max them out to get majority T5. Hard to hurt from the get-go, then I give up the Lhamaean or Medusae to the front of the line when charging.

Yup. Basically it's an ideal way to have him do his thing, and it doesn't overkill except against things that are already easy to overkill. some things you just cant control. But for those you can, the Court is good.

 Homeskillet wrote:
First, Incubi are killers, AND their model is sick. That being said, I play more shooty DE so I don't field them as much..

exactly.

In 5th they were epic, one game mine went through an entire chaos marine army by themselves

However they 'can' work but it requires many things to line up for you, which doesn't tend to happen that often, whereas with shooty DE you can cause far more terror. My Archon enjoys reading a good book while his trueborn shoot people to death

You just have to try them out and see..

meanwhile i've got to ready my Kabal for a match against Eldar, time to try out 3 venoms

Or you go for the killer combo:

Vect, Incubi, Dais, topped of with Eldrad => SAD opponent

but risky as hell, if they shoot the dais and that ubercostly unit gets stranded, however with Fortune this makes them much more difficult to kill as both Vect and Eldrad can soak...

Except that Eldrad can't ride in the Dais, so he'd have to play catchup until Vect steps off.

Even Battle brothers can't ride each other's transports :(

Nop nop nope! No battle brothers in each others transports.

A Jetseer might be able to easily keep up though.