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If I fire a Lascannon at AV10 and roll a 1 for the vehicle penetration, is it a failed attempt at harming the vehicle due to the general rules saying that 1s are always failures?

 gnoise wrote:
If I fire a Lascannon at AV10 and roll a 1 for the vehicle penetration, is it a failed attempt at harming the vehicle due to the general rules saying that 1s are always failures?

What's the page number for the "general rules saying that 1s are always failures"?

Oh, whoops. That was for characteristic tests. And that's on page 7 in the BRB for those who are curios.

 gnoise wrote:
Oh, whoops. That was for characteristic tests. And that's on page 7 in the BRB for those who are curios.

No it wasn't. Characteristic tests are 6 always fails, 1 always succeeds.

There are a few sections in the book which state 'a roll of 1 is always a failure' but every one of those sections are talking about a specific Roll. Therefore these restrictions exist only to the Rolls being named within the restriction itself. It is actually very rare for a rule to have an automatic failure clause, the confusion stems from the fact the most common Rolls contain this sort of restriction within them. Several more which are used every turn are clearly designed to leave a failure chance within the calculations no matter how 'improved' they get. This leads to the conclusion that this is the normal, when in reality if one will find this restriction to be only used in a tiny minority of cases.

From my memory, the Armored Penetration roll lacks any such restriction and simply state to roll a D6 and add that result to X before compared against Y.

Similar question on the same track: A vindicator Shell blast will Always Pen AV10?

 BlackTalos wrote:
Similar question on the same track: A vindicator Shell blast will Always Pen AV10?

Any Str10 attack will.
But in the case of an "Autopen" be very clear with your opponent if you intend to skip the pen the roll. Causes all kinds of problems if people don't know what you're rolling for.

Yes. Unscrupulous players may use this situation for shenanigans.

e.g. 'I rolled a 1. That means it penetrates. Now I'll roll the damage result.'
vs
'I rolled a 6. Because it auto-penetrates, I don't need to roll for penetration so that means it explodes.'

Technically, from a Rule as Written point of view, you can not skip over the Armour Penetration Roll as nothing in the rule state you can do so.

Personally, I force people to carry out actions even when the results are already pre-destined. I do this to ensure that ever Rule is being observed and honored because something might be over-looked if we get into the habit of skipping dice rolls. It also has the added benefit of preventing shenanigans, as the above mentioned 'unscrupulous players' do sadly exist, by removing the ability to simply claim that a result was 'skipped for being automatic' when the dice face would be better applied to the Damage Table.

If I use a strength 10 weapon against an AV10 vehicle, I always inform my opponent, it auto-pens, and I'm rolling damage.

 Happyjew wrote:
If I use a strength 10 weapon against an AV10 vehicle, I always inform my opponent, it auto-pens, and I'm rolling damage.

This. There is no point making the roll when the outcome is pre-determined.

JinxDragon wrote:
Technically, from a Rule as Written point of view, you can not skip over the Armour Penetration Roll as nothing in the rule state you can do so.

This for me.
Not that i follow RaW like bible but like jinx, i'd rather make sure all rolls are made. I play with a few beginner players and saying things like "don't roll that because..." is usually so much more confusing...

Playing with my friends I'll just skip the roll. With other people, I'll roll a die and say roll to pen. Then immediately roll another and say roll on damage table. I just ignore the first die, it hasn't usually even stopped rolling by the time I roll the second, but that way there is no confusion.

As the proud owner of many AV10 open topped vehicles, if it's S10 I allow my opponent to skip the pen roll.

Instead after the to hit, I'll just say "it's penned" the roll my flicker field (invul save) ..

However IF I'm playing someone fairly new or uncertain then it's probably best to force the roll just to help make it a habbit.