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Must say I'm going to cut against the grain and declare myself not a fan. There's nothing technically wrong with it, everything looks detailed, it seems an accurate representation of the art, but it doesn't make me want it.

Only bit that interests me is the tilt shield, it could be a decent alternative Storm Shield.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Is it me, or does the silhouette in the video at the end look like a different gun? I'm hoping it is.

Scratch that... looks like the thermal cannon.

FW are bound to do variations of these right... Imagine what might turn up with the HH line, there may be some mega mechanicum styles show up.

if these sell as well as I suspect they will (sounds like ANYONE with an Imperium army is strongly looking at em) I imagine these won;t be the last things we might see.

assuming the knights sell well I think the lesson GW'll take from it is that smallish super heavies that as playable in a medium sized 40k game are gonna be popular. (in a 1500 point game a knights not gonna be out of place)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
Just got word that the Knight will be the same price as a Baneblade, so €110 / £85 / $140 USD

thats what I expected. no shock there

TBH i dont think they will sell that well, they are nice and all but at 150 that is an extra 50% more expensive than the DF one and Esthetics aside, DF is just simply a better pice of engenniering and much better model. I can see my self buying the DF wich is an expensive but superb model with articulations and posing on the level of action figures, i dont see my self paying 50% more for an already expensive static model, regardless of the lore behind it. I mean, buying all the accesory parts for DF one brings them closer thou it is stil cheaper and they are not really nesesary. I mean its a gw kit, it will sell, how ever you dont see baneblades all over the place.

You say "aesthetic aside", but for me, half the point of buying a model is the aesthetic. The other half is whether or not it's in an army I collect and whether or not it's useful on the table top.

Action figure posing doesn't mean a whole lot to me if I'm not a fan of the aesthetic. I don't hate the DF models, but I much prefer the Knight aesthetic.

And that is cool, dont get me wrong, but a very big chunk of the GW customers are in it for the game. Its a nice kit, that is why i compared it to the bane blade, same price point. I can see this model appealing to lore fans with limited modeling skills (as in good painters but not nesesarily at moding). So it is appealing but expensive and it will only attract a fraction of GW customers (imperial players,whom are also of limited modding skills and lore fanatics), thats why i said, i can see it selling on the level of baneblades, a little more since its not guard only, but again, you dont see baneblades all over the place.

I can see a few Game of Thrones ideas being thrown at these lol. Targaryen, Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully etc etc


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxvaderxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Is it me, or does the silhouette in the video at the end look like a different gun? I'm hoping it is.

Scratch that... looks like the thermal cannon.

FW are bound to do variations of these right... Imagine what might turn up with the HH line, there may be some mega mechanicum styles show up.

if these sell as well as I suspect they will (sounds like ANYONE with an Imperium army is strongly looking at em) I imagine these won;t be the last things we might see.

assuming the knights sell well I think the lesson GW'll take from it is that smallish super heavies that as playable in a medium sized 40k game are gonna be popular. (in a 1500 point game a knights not gonna be out of place)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
Just got word that the Knight will be the same price as a Baneblade, so €110 / £85 / $140 USD

thats what I expected. no shock there

TBH i dont think they will sell that well, they are nice and all but at 150 that is an extra 50% more expensive than the DF one and Esthetics aside, DF is just simply a better pice of engenniering and much better model. I can see my self buying the DF wich is an expensive but superb model with articulations and posing on the level of action figures, i dont see my self paying 50% more for an already expensive static model, regardless of the lore behind it. I mean, buying all the accesory parts for DF one brings them closer thou it is stil cheaper and they are not really nesesary. I mean its a gw kit, it will sell, how ever you dont see baneblades all over the place.

You say "aesthetic aside", but for me, half the point of buying a model is the aesthetic. The other half is whether or not it's in an army I collect and whether or not it's useful on the table top.

Action figure posing doesn't mean a whole lot to me if I'm not a fan of the aesthetic. I don't hate the DF models, but I much prefer the Knight aesthetic.

And that is cool, dont get me wrong, but a very big chunk of the GW customers are in it for the game. Its a nice kit, that is why i compared it to the bane blade, same price point. I can see this model appealing to lore fans with limited modeling skills (as in good painters but not nesesarily at moding). So it is appealing but expensive and it will only attract a fraction of GW customers (imperial players,whom are also of limited modding skills and lore fanatics), thats why i said, i can see it selling on the level of baneblades, a little more since its not guard only, but again, you dont see baneblades all over the place.

A little harsh don't you think?

 angelofvengeance wrote:

A little harsh don't you think?

I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

A little harsh don't you think?

I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.

I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.

Video is up on "What's New Today".

February 22nd is the preorder date.

The silhouette at the end shows a walker with 2 guns - none of the leaks so far has shown this pattern of knight.
I know the rules leak doesn't have options for changing the CCW for a gun but maybe that will be an option in the Codex??

 MWHistorian wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

A little harsh don't you think?

I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.

I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.

The DFG one can fit nicely into the 40k style with a little conversion work and the right paintjob:



It's just a matter of adding details like banners, purity seals, shields etc. to 40k it up a bit.

That said, the Knight is a very nice-looking model just by itself.. either are valid choices.

 MWHistorian wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

A little harsh don't you think?

I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.

I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.

Not in this context, Aesthetics are subjective, engeniering is not, the DF is a better kit because it is a better piece of engeniering, with articulations and keyed arm options. I do not factor aethetics into it, some will like the GW esthetics some will the DF, its a matter of taste.

xxvaderxx wrote:
And that is cool, dont get me wrong, but a very big chunk of the GW customers are in it for the game. Its a nice kit, that is why i compared it to the bane blade, same price point. I can see this model appealing to lore fans with limited modeling skills (as in good painters but not nesesarily at moding). So it is appealing but expensive and it will only attract a fraction of GW customers (imperial players,whom are also of limited modding skills and lore fanatics), thats why i said, i can see it selling on the level of baneblades, a little more since its not guard only, but again, you dont see baneblades all over the place.

I think you're wrong in who you think it will appeal to. I'm sure as hell not a lore fanatic... I played Epic 40k in it's mid-90's form, but I didn't even know about Knights until the rumour surfaced not all that long ago. As far as my modelling skills, meh, I'm not great but I have scratch built a couple of models and extensively converted a lot of my models.

Yet the knight appeals to me, largely from an aesthetic perspective. I'd rather have a model I like the look of but has more limited posing than a model that has awesome posing that I think looks "meh", especially when there's probably going to be 30-60 hours of building and painting involved.

I think you're trying to get too far in to the psychology of the intended audience and missing the mark. The intended audience is the people who think it looks cool, want to use it in a game and are willing to pay the price for it. Obviously there's a lot of sub categories within that, but I don't think there's a lot of benefit going in to that.

For me personally, if I'm spending a couple of months building and painting a model, the fact it costs $150 instead of $100 is largely irrelevant to me. That's not even a tank of gas in my fun hobby car, which I would burn in the space of a weekend, lol.

I'd buy this (mainly for the aesthetics), paint it black as those Freeblades (merc's that can ally) and run it with my Iron Hands Raukaan. Love the model. Best thing GW produced in a long time. I don't care about the price in this case.

Also...

Engineering, engineering, engineering. Sorry, that is getting on my nerves, lol.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The intended audience is the people who think it looks cool, want to use it in a game and are willing to pay the price for it. Obviously there's a lot of sub categories within that, but I don't think there's a lot of benefit going in to that.

For me personally, if I'm spending a couple of months building and painting a model, the fact it costs $150 instead of $100 is largely irrelevant to me. That's not even a tank of gas in my fun hobby car, which I would burn in the space of a weekend, lol.

I essentially agree, thou i also think that that target is essentialy included on what i mentioned before and are you, in fact i imagine that is mostly people like who bought the banebladed. Which again is cool, just not my cup of tea, but i dont think they will sell thouthands of them either, again, on the level may be a little more than baneblades.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

A little harsh don't you think?

I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.

I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.

Not in this context, Aesthetics are subjective, engeniering is not, the DF is a better kit because it is a better piece of engeniering, with articulations and keyed arm options. I do not factor aethetics into it, some will like the GW esthetics some will the DF, its a matter of taste.

There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxvaderxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The intended audience is the people who think it looks cool, want to use it in a game and are willing to pay the price for it. Obviously there's a lot of sub categories within that, but I don't think there's a lot of benefit going in to that.

For me personally, if I'm spending a couple of months building and painting a model, the fact it costs $150 instead of $100 is largely irrelevant to me. That's not even a tank of gas in my fun hobby car, which I would burn in the space of a weekend, lol.

I essentially agree, thou i also think that that target is essentialy included on what i mentioned before and so you, in fact i imagine that is mostly people like who bought the banebladed. Which again is cool, just not my cup of tea, but i dont think they will sell thouthands of them either, again, on the level may be a little more than baneblades.

I don't think they'll sell tons of them either... just not for the reasons you concocted.

 BrookM wrote:
The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"

So, Imperial for now.

Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...

Anyway, the model is so great I think I'll buy it anyway, for the sake of building, painting and converting it to Chaos. In case it doesn't get an official CSM option, my friends may stil allow me to use it in games.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.

Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).

Then there are people like me. I hardly spend a penny on GW products or any wargaming for that matter any more, yet would buy 3 of these.

xxvaderxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.

Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).

In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.

If I want to buy a P-51 model, it really doesn't matter what technical advantages a P-47 model might have, the better model is the one that's actually a P-51.

 BrookM wrote:
The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"

So, Imperial for now.

I wish I could say I was surprised that the Sisters get screwed again, but I really can't.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"

So, Imperial for now.

Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...

Anyway, the model is so great I think I'll buy it anyway, for the sake of building, painting and converting it to Chaos. In case it doesn't get an official CSM option, my friends may stil allow me to use it in games.

Nope:

A plastic kit that makes either the Knight Paladin or the Knight Errant. This massive centerpiece kit that stands over 15cm tall and has a lot of additional components to add variety. This model will be popular as it can be used by nearly half the 40K armies – Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels.

 BrookM wrote:
The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"

So, Imperial for now.

Not even ALL imperials, it seems. Great news !

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I can see a few Game of Thrones ideas being thrown at these lol. Targaryen, Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully etc etc

Do you really want to see your models die a terrible and cruel and inescapable death ?

 SarisKhan wrote:
Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...

Or it will be Imperial Guard + Rainbow marines + Green marines + Red marines + Grey marines + Silver marines, i.e. only loyalist marine forces.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"

So, Imperial for now.

Not even ALL imperials, it seems. Great news !

I suppose the Inquisition and Sisters don't count to the bean-counters.

In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.

And I think that's the only way this discussion can ever end - everyone's taste is purely personal and subjective.

I have the Dreamforge Leviathan, and will also be looking at getting a Knight to paint. Simply because the aesthetics of both appeal to me, but in different ways.

If people prefer one to the other, like both, or like neither, who am I to dictate to anyone where there tastes must lie?

I should've expected that from the very beginning, but I'm still sad.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.

Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).

In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.

If I want to buy a P-51 model, it really doesn't matter what technical advantages a P-47 model might have, the better model is the one that's actually a P-51.

Then you like the P-51 better and P-47 is the superior model. You liking it better factors you preferences as the determining factor, it being a superior model factors its engeniering. I like the F-14 tomcat better than the f-22 raptor, the raptor thou is clearly the superior jet.

But, but, but, according to the laws of the internets, you CANNOT possibly like both!

 SarisKhan wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"

So, Imperial for now.

Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...

Anyway, the model is so great I think I'll buy it anyway, for the sake of building, painting and converting it to Chaos. In case it doesn't get an official CSM option, my friends may stil allow me to use it in games.

At this stage of the game with GW ramming rulebooks willy-nilly on players and the crazy Ally Table I say tell your friends and go for it unless they are a bunch of TFG they should agree and it's like you are going to play in one of the thousands official tournaments GW is currently supporting.

M.

 BrookM wrote:
I suppose the Inquisition and Sisters don't count to the bean-counters.

Or maybe they just know that most stores never even saw any Sisters of Battle (or Inquisition outside of silver marines), and therefore GW do not want to make those stores discover that there exist a bunch of weird armies which they are not allowed to sell rules (and maybe even models) for.

 BrookM wrote:
But, but, but, according to the laws of the internets, you CANNOT possibly like both!

But, but, but...there's all these videos of girls on the internet who seem to like EVERYTHING!!! Why can't I be like them?!!!

On a serious note - maybe I really should be stringently deriding anyone else opinions, and accusing them of wearing "tin foil hats" for daring to suggest an idea or theory.

Nah, stuff it, I'm too old, and haven't got the energy, for "internet arguments" or trolls...

xxvaderxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.

Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).

In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.

If I want to buy a P-51 model, it really doesn't matter what technical advantages a P-47 model might have, the better model is the one that's actually a P-51.

Then you like the P-51 better and P-47 is the superior model. You liking it better factors you preferences as the determining factor, it being a superior model factors its engeniering. I like the F-14 tomcat better than the f-22 raptor, the raptor thou is clearly the superior jet.

Engineering.

But we aren't talking about cars or planes. We are talking about model kits. The purpose of a car is transportation. If a car transports you better than another car, that makes it the better car (even that is massively subjective). The purpose of a jet fighter is to be better than other jet fighters at shooting each other down, and perhaps some ground attack as well. The jet fighter that does that better is the better jet fighter. Even within that there are a whole bunch of if's and but's.

If you're going to talk about cars, the better analogy is probably comparing a car to a truck. Which is better? Well that entirely depends on what you want to do with it. If you have a large load to carry it doesn't matter if the car is 3 times more efficient if it can't carry your load... the truck is better.

Anyway, point = "better" is a subjective term in the context of model kits. I'm going to bed now