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I just can't believe that they seem to be selling an entire codex for one, single unit...
GW is insane, but this insane?
The Knight is an awesome thing, but still, an entire codex?

GWs not insane. We're all the insane ones for buying it.

 aka_mythos wrote:
GWs not insane. We're all the insane ones for buying it.

Amen!

 aka_mythos wrote:
GWs not insane. We're all the insane ones for buying it.

I like the model and I'm glad they're coming out with it for my fellow gamers but I personally have no interest in buying it for reason in addition to the moderately inflated price. I'd trade for the physical model but there is no way I'd pay that much or even trade for a few pages of rules for one unit. I have enough reservations about shelling out for the "meatier" codex supplements like the farsight one that has probably double or triple the crunch alone something with even less.

 ironicsilence wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
WOW! This Knight Titan .

Imperial Knights are NOT titans, titans are titans, imperial knights are imperial knights....It's lLike saying "...look at that rhino landraider!" Derp.

the box is labeled Knight Titan so GW has changed the fluff...

Apologies then. I didn't realize GW changed it, and wasn't aware of the box... Thanks.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
WOW! This Knight Titan .

Imperial Knights are NOT titans, titans are titans, imperial knights are imperial knights....It's lLike saying "...look at that rhino landraider!" Derp.

the box is labeled Knight Titan so GW has changed the fluff...

Apologies then. I didn't realize GW changed it, and wasn't aware of the box... Thanks.

They haven't.

This is maybe a mistake, but more likely somewhere, deep in the bowels of Lenton, somebody still hasn't lost their sense of humour. They didn't once refer to it as a Knight Titan in the launch issue of WD, they do not refer to it as such on the description on the web (Knight suit seems the favoured term) nor do they refer to it as such on the front of the box.

This is the one sole reference to it being a Knight Titan anywhere in all of the stuff they have put out over the last few weeks, yet strangely seems to be regarded as proof that this is how it is and always was?

Nah, GW be trolling.

Besides, whether you're of the opinion it is a Titan type or not, calling it as such is redundant, I don't see anyone calling Land Raiders "Land Raider Tanks" and that well known and popular unit "Land Speeder Skimmers" get talked about all the time, right?

Also, if we are going to adopt this new line from our GW overlords, could the committee please rule, when talking about variants, whether the preferred term is Knight Paladin Titan, or Knight Titan Paladin?

Wouldn't want to goof again!

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
WOW! This Knight Titan .

Imperial Knights are NOT titans, titans are titans, imperial knights are imperial knights....It's lLike saying "...look at that rhino landraider!" Derp.

the box is labeled Knight Titan so GW has changed the fluff...

Apologies then. I didn't realize GW changed it, and wasn't aware of the box... Thanks.

There is nothing to apologize for. People on dakka took it upon themselves for years to "correct" fellow posters who used common sense and called Knights titans just like every other superheavy Imperial walker. To my knowledge, GW never excluded knights from the category of titans and this desire to correct was based on a lack of knowledge rather than any actual knowledge. Now, I'm sure someone out there is itching to type that GW also did not say that Knights weren't watermelons either or something equally ridiculous but I most reasonable people can agree that Knights and their larger cousins share alot more history (both fluff and crunch over various games) than that.

Out of curiosity, is most of the interesting reading fluff on the wiki page new from the codex or is it from earlier Epic/Titan games?

edit: Looks like the question is mostly answered further down but they've obviously updated the article with new pics so I'd be curious to see if new fluff made it in as well.

"The history of the Knight war machines as presented above is canon culled from the game Titan Legions"

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Knight

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I just can't believe that they seem to be selling an entire codex for one, single unit...
GW is insane, but this insane?
The Knight is an awesome thing, but still, an entire codex?

Well, why not? This isn't exactly a new thing for GW, they've been testing it for awhile. Look at the digital editions rules released thus far. Clearly, enough people are willing to pay money for a codex that is mostly a copy/paste from an existing codex, as well as rules for single models, or even a single squad.. People are even willing to pay for rules for a single mission.

Warboss is (was) wrong but now might be right!

I'm ok either way as I'm checked out if the 40k hotel until 7th - and maybe not even then!

 Orlanth wrote:
TotalWargames.com 30% discount offer

I recommend you cancel now and order somewhere else, the delayed shipping isn't worth the discount imo (ordered once and never again)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=total+wargamer&rlz=1C1CHMO_enGB574GB574&oq=total+wargamer&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i65l2j69i60j0l2.2360j0j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I just can't believe that they seem to be selling an entire codex for one, single unit...
GW is insane, but this insane?
The Knight is an awesome thing, but still, an entire codex?

Their not! It's 2!

From gw

"Codex: Imperial KnightsIn the glorious years of the Great Crusade the lost Knight worlds were reunited with the emerging Imperium after centuries of isolation. Piloted by a Noble and crafted utilizing forgotten technology, the Knight suits are the ultimate weapon of war.Within the 64 pages of this hardback, full-colour book you will find:- A comprehensive history of the Imperial Knights from the Horus Heresy to the Time of Ending.- Inspiring heraldry and history of a number of major Knightly Houses.- Informative background information concentrating on two patterns of Knight suit; the Knight Errant and the Knight Paladin.- Full rules for fielding a detachment of Imperial Knights as a force in Warhammer 40,000, or as an allied detachment to an Imperial force."

Unless there's something surprising inside the Codex, there's not a huge reason to buy it, is there? I have the rules for the actually model for $4 from the White Dwarf. So the Codex will add the warlord traits and the allies matrix? Sure, to use Knights as a Primary you'll need that, I suppose, but to toss in one or two as an ally, all I'll need from the book is to know what level of ally it is with my army, and it's easy enough to know that without pay $40.

 tomjoad wrote:
Unless there's something surprising inside the Codex, there's not a huge reason to buy it, is there? I have the rules for the actually model for $4 from the White Dwarf. So the Codex will add the warlord traits and the allies matrix? Sure, to use Knights as a Primary you'll need that, I suppose, but to toss in one or two as an ally, all I'll need from the book is to know what level of ally it is with my army, and it's easy enough to know that without pay $40.

You don't ever need to buy any GW books if you don't want to. All the relevant rules of any codex can be summarised on 4 pages -- Rules which you can either get from a real friend of yours or an anonymous file sharing friend on the internet. I believe most people, including me, buy army books because they look and feel nice, not because they're an absolute necessity for gaming.

 Therion wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:
Unless there's something surprising inside the Codex, there's not a huge reason to buy it, is there? I have the rules for the actually model for $4 from the White Dwarf. So the Codex will add the warlord traits and the allies matrix? Sure, to use Knights as a Primary you'll need that, I suppose, but to toss in one or two as an ally, all I'll need from the book is to know what level of ally it is with my army, and it's easy enough to know that without pay $40.

You don't ever need to buy any GW books if you don't want to. All the relevant rules of any codex can be summarised on 4 pages -- Rules which you can either get from a real friend of yours or an anonymous file sharing friend on the internet. I believe most people, including me, buy army books because they look and feel nice, not because they're an absolute necessity for gaming.

Anybody complaining about the price for a two model codex cannot also use this line of thought. The two positions are directly opposed to one another. If you love the feel of paper this much, which is reasonable and valid, then you have already determined that you don't mind paying up. If you are upset about paying up, surely the value you place on the physical sensation of "book" is far lower than the value you place on a pair of twenties.

I am assuming that a knight army can take allies like imperial guard. If so, how about these instead of Cadians:



They're cheaper too!

 tomjoad wrote:


Anybody complaining about the price for a two model codex cannot also use this line of thought. The two positions are directly opposed to one another. If you love the feel of paper this much, which is reasonable and valid, then you have already determined that you don't mind paying up. If you are upset about paying up, surely the value you place on the physical sensation of "book" is far lower than the value you place on a pair of twenties.

It's not the paper, it's the background

Good "balanced" and "crunchy" games are a dime a dozen. I can go to a nearby pound shop and pick up plastic models the size of the Knight no problem.

The only thing that justifies the price is GW's background and lore, and the less crunch there is in a Codex, the more room there is for lore.

 tomjoad wrote:
Unless there's something surprising inside the Codex, there's not a huge reason to buy it, is there? I have the rules for the actually model for $4 from the White Dwarf. So the Codex will add the warlord traits and the allies matrix? Sure, to use Knights as a Primary you'll need that, I suppose, but to toss in one or two as an ally, all I'll need from the book is to know what level of ally it is with my army, and it's easy enough to know that without pay $40.

Yeah, I'm not buying anything until the Codex comes out and I'll flip through it at my local GW and see if there's anything in it worth paying to get. Otherwise I'll just stick to the WD rules.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:


Anybody complaining about the price for a two model codex cannot also use this line of thought. The two positions are directly opposed to one another. If you love the feel of paper this much, which is reasonable and valid, then you have already determined that you don't mind paying up. If you are upset about paying up, surely the value you place on the physical sensation of "book" is far lower than the value you place on a pair of twenties.

It's not the paper, it's the background

Good "balanced" and "crunchy" games are a dime a dozen. I can go to a nearby pound shop and pick up plastic models the size of the Knight no problem.

The only thing that justifies the price is GW's background and lore, and the less crunch there is in a Codex, the more room there is for lore.

OK, that's your opinion. My opinion, again, is that whatever small amount of fluff is added through the codex is worth considerably less than the price of the codex. Between the WD's and Lexicanum and the 90+ pages here of debating the minutia of what a "Knight" is and what a "Titan" is, I suspect I've got as much of the fluff as I'll ever want for these guys.

But again, if the fluff is worth that much to you, then I have no truck with that, because you definitionally cannot complain about the price of the book; you've just stated plainly that it is worth it to you to pay for it. My comments are meant for people who do not want to pay $40, who feel that this product isn't worth that much money. THOSE people who are numerous and who I am amongst, have a valid and legal avenue to not buy the codex AND to use the Knights as an ally, which is what I wanted to point out.

 Zweischneid wrote:
...the less crunch there is in a Codex, the more room there is for lore.

Are you familiar with the concept of diminishing returns? Is a 1.6% increase in lore worth a 25% decrease in rules? In a rulebook?

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
...the less crunch there is in a Codex, the more room there is for lore.

Are you familiar with the concept of diminishing returns? Is a 1.6% increase in lore worth a 25% decrease in rules? In a rulebook?

It's just Saturday, don't sweat it.

 Orlanth wrote:
I have ordered my Knight online, thanks to the thread for the heads up of TotalWargames.com 30% discount offer.

While waiting for your Knight, have fun reading this thread about the company you ordered from:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/472563.page

Some nice looking chaos conversion showing up (even if they don't look as if they are game legal yet)



from Bandua Wargames on facebook using a Knight & bits of the fantasy warshrine

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
i dont want to beat a dead horse or bring up crap from 40 pages ago...but the box is labeled Knight Titan so GW has changed the fluff...

It's a dead horse resurrected everytime someone used the two words together as common sense would dictate. I'm glad you pointed that out so we can now (hopefully) put that incorrect habit of "correcting" fellow posters to rest.

edit: To save fellow posters the trouble of finding it, I'll post the pertinent part of the pic here.

Finally! That's one debate settled, at least regarding GW's current stance.

Knight Titan! Knight Titan! Mwuahahaahhaaha

Right, that's their new stance.

Up until this point, everyone saying that was incorrect.

GW changes things all the time.

Bravo.

/slowclap

This is being misread.

The unit is called an "Imperial Knight" in the codex.

It is also called "Imperial Knight Titan" on the back of the box because the name "Imperial Knight" is too generic for enforceable IP copyright.

in either case it is and always was a form of Titan, similar technology, smaller package. This has been the case right from the White Dwarf where they were first introduced.
Many things have changed, there is no shock lance, the ion shield used to cover the frant and left arcs but could never be redirected and the secondary weapons were multi lasers.

At least they kept in the knight worlds concepts.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Some nice looking chaos conversion showing up (even if they don't look as if they are game legal yet)

Spoiler:

from Bandua Wargames on facebook using a Knight & bits of the fantasy warshrine

Now that is cool in a completely over the top way.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I have ordered my Knight online, thanks to the thread for the heads up of TotalWargames.com 30% discount offer.

While waiting for your Knight, have fun reading this thread about the company you ordered from:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/472563.page

Thanks for the heads up.
So long as it gets here I am content with slow delivery and poor communications. I can press any grievances with my bank if the product doesn't turn up.
Budget is the priority issue so I want my toys cheaper not sooner. If Total Wargames delivers I will use them as my priority supplier, but I thank you for the link anyway and will be careful to read all of it.

JWBS wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
TotalWargames.com 30% discount offer

I recommend you cancel now and order somewhere else, the delayed shipping isn't worth the discount imo (ordered once and never again)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=total+wargamer&rlz=1C1CHMO_enGB574GB574&oq=total+wargamer&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i65l2j69i60j0l2.2360j0j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Hmm. The order was placed I can cancel now under UK distance selling laws but I need this sale to work. I am not the type to have a unit ready and painted in a few days, like I assume many I have several armies still unpainted. If the knight gets delayed by warpstorms on its perilous journey here so be it.

I am far more worried about Royal Mail than the companies I buy from.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
...the less crunch there is in a Codex, the more room there is for lore.

Are you familiar with the concept of diminishing returns? Is a 1.6% increase in lore worth a 25% decrease in rules? In a rulebook?

That is assuming the more rules would equal a better/tighter/smoother game, which I would dispute. A 25% decrease in rules is (hopefully) a sign of improved quality of rules. The less rules are needed, the better it is for everyone.

The added space for lore is just the cherry on top.

 Orlanth wrote:
This is being misread.

The unit is called an "Imperial Knight" in the codex.

It is also called "Imperial Knight Titan" on the back of the box because the name "Imperial Knight" is too generic for enforceable IP copyright.

If "Imperial Knight" is the correct name, then everyone can use the correct name. Being the only company to use the wrong name is an incredibly stupid idea.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Some nice looking chaos conversion showing up (even if they don't look as if they are game legal yet)



from Bandua Wargames on facebook using a Knight & bits of the fantasy warshrine

I just want to go back to this. For me, this is what 40k is about.

I think there are simply different uses of the word "Titan" in 40K.

Are Imperial Knights "Titans" in the sense of "Imperial Warmachines build and operated by the Imperial Collegia Titanica"?: No. they are not.

Are Imperial Knights "Titans" in the sense that they are giant stompy things on the battlefield, along with Eldar "Titans" or Ork Stompas or even oversized Tyranid stuff, etc...? They probably are.

[edit]

Also this chaos thing running around

 Zweischneid wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
...the less crunch there is in a Codex, the more room there is for lore.

Are you familiar with the concept of diminishing returns? Is a 1.6% increase in lore worth a 25% decrease in rules? In a rulebook?

That is assuming the more rules would equal a better/tighter/smoother game, which I would dispute.

You would dispute that having more than 1 unit in an army's codex would be better?