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Recently played my first game of Escalation an absolutely loved it. My Warhound Titan, Sisters and Inquisition went head to had against my two fried's Stompa, Orks and Imperial Guard allies. Despite the Stompa blowing up my Warhound in CC [10 meks with oilers repairing it each turn made it pretty resilient!] I had a great time.

Reasons why I loved it

1. Got to use my Forge World Warhound Titan which has been on the shelf looking pretty but gathering dust.
2. Battlefield looked amazing with the two super heavies.
3. So much dakka! D-weapons [and non-D weapons for that matter] are incredibly powerful, but they should be. It's a titan after all! Meant I had to rethink my unit choices, Expensive deathstar units are a no-no
4. Game went much quicker. Conceded on turn 3 as the game was effectively over.

So, while I wouldn't necessarily want to play Escalation every game [as it would limit my unit choices], if both people are fully aware and in agreement then I think it's got an important place in 40k. Best fun I've had in a while, and that's what it's all about, right?

I (like many people) dont like to play games where you just stand there and shoot until someones had enough. Personally It CAN SOMETIMES BE FUN but most of the time itll be the guy who goes first who will just slaughter huge amounts of player 2.

In my opinion the only fun bit is looking at it.

In saying that im a fan of 500 point games because at that size it feels like a real game.

It's fun, but the problem is that it's not optional. Unlike Apocalypse, every 40k Game from now on is an Escalation game, if your opponent or you so deems it. Since it's a supplement, not an expansion, you get no choice in the matter.
And since certain titans are *Dreadfully* balanced, it really just makes certain armies stronger and kicks other armies in the ass.
Eldar, for example, get 4 Destroyer shots on a nigh-invulnerable platform. (It takes 30 point-blank Melta shots to reliably bring down the cheap, smaller titan, assuming IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES. If it's got a toe in cover, someone cast Forewarning, etc. and if it stays still instead of jumping, it takes 80 MELTA SHOTS. This is the one you can bring in 1250 games.) Necrons can bring a T9 monstrousity with a Destroyer Hellstorm template. Unless you have destroyer weapons of your own, (Or you specifically brought a counter), there's very little you can do about it.
If you do bring a titan, it turns into a gane of 'Whose titan is stronger.'

TL;DR If it were an expansion it would be great, instead it's just even more unbalance to an already unbalanced game.

Waaaghpower wrote:
It's fun, but the problem is that it's not optional. Unlike Apocalypse, every 40k Game from now on is an Escalation game, if your opponent or you so deems it. Since it's a supplement, not an expansion, you get no choice in the matter.
And since certain titans are *Dreadfully* balanced, it really just makes certain armies stronger and kicks other armies in the ass.
Eldar, for example, get 4 Destroyer shots on a nigh-invulnerable platform. (It takes 30 point-blank Melta shots to reliably bring down the cheap, smaller titan, assuming IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES. If it's got a toe in cover, someone cast Forewarning, etc. and if it stays still instead of jumping, it takes 80 MELTA SHOTS. This is the one you can bring in 1250 games.) Necrons can bring a T9 monstrousity with a Destroyer Hellstorm template. Unless you have destroyer weapons of your own, (Or you specifically brought a counter), there's very little you can do about it.
If you do bring a titan, it turns into a gane of 'Whose titan is stronger.'

TL;DR If it were an expansion it would be great, instead it's just even more unbalance to an already unbalanced game.

You seem to be playing in the wrong place in KC. My FLGS, people RARELY, if at all, play with Lords of War. We have a couple guys who would do it, but they usually don't, given they aren't donkey-caves. (Donkey caves wasn't my expression, but I'm sure you get it.)

 Smokeydubbs wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
It's fun, but the problem is that it's not optional. Unlike Apocalypse, every 40k Game from now on is an Escalation game, if your opponent or you so deems it. Since it's a supplement, not an expansion, you get no choice in the matter.
And since certain titans are *Dreadfully* balanced, it really just makes certain armies stronger and kicks other armies in the ass.
Eldar, for example, get 4 Destroyer shots on a nigh-invulnerable platform. (It takes 30 point-blank Melta shots to reliably bring down the cheap, smaller titan, assuming IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES. If it's got a toe in cover, someone cast Forewarning, etc. and if it stays still instead of jumping, it takes 80 MELTA SHOTS. This is the one you can bring in 1250 games.) Necrons can bring a T9 monstrousity with a Destroyer Hellstorm template. Unless you have destroyer weapons of your own, (Or you specifically brought a counter), there's very little you can do about it.
If you do bring a titan, it turns into a gane of 'Whose titan is stronger.'

TL;DR If it were an expansion it would be great, instead it's just even more unbalance to an already unbalanced game.

You seem to be playing in the wrong place in KC. My FLGS, people RARELY, if at all, play with Lords of War. We have a couple guys who would do it, but they usually don't, given they aren't donkey-caves.

Where do you play at?
I've only come across Lords of War a few times in my game, but I've also watched players crumple without standing the slightest chance against enemies who brought them in 1250 and 1000 point games.

You always have a choice about whether to play a game.

If someone challenged me to a game I will automatically lose because he has a Titan and I don't, I would just decline to play.

If you're part of some form of tournament, league, campaign or other form of organised play you generally don't have the choice to refuse to play against an opponent without forfeiting.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
If you're part of some form of tournament, league, campaign or other form of organised play you generally don't have the choice to refuse to play against an opponent without forfeiting.

unless those who have organised said event have stated the restrictions in advance

such games where they are known in advance are fine, having things "sprung" on you without warning is my objection. We have only had one game of those expansions and it has never been used since.

Aren't Warhounds FW and not escalation , the only titan in escalation is the eldar one ?

I like it. Although my preferred points level being 500 means I don't get to/have to play it that often (no possible escalation list can be built at that level - trust me I've tried).

I'll also be the first to admit I've got a 1k list with a Stormsword a 2 Vendettas in it... Please note I always give prior notice and would never force it upon someone.

Makumba wrote:
Aren't Warhounds FW and not escalation , the only titan in escalation is the eldar one ?

FW released a list of units that are legal in escalation shortly after the escalation release. The Warhound is in that list.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Makumba wrote:
Aren't Warhounds FW and not escalation , the only titan in escalation is the eldar one ?

FW released a list of additional escalation approved units, that includes the warhound and reaver for "all forces of the Imperium" sure you COULD say "that's forge world it doesn't count" but realisticly when you're putting super heavies on the table already there's a certain degree of acceptance of forge world anyway as thats where you start seeing the forge world minis

 PrinceRaven wrote:
If you're part of some form of tournament, league, campaign or other form of organised play you generally don't have the choice to refuse to play against an opponent without forfeiting.

I would not join leagues, tournaments, and so on that included Escalation.

I have no problem with Escalation and would gladly play it if both players agreed upon it. However, that's the thing. If both players agree upon it. I'm not about to force my Stompas on someone who doesn't want to play against them. That just makes things not fun for everyone.

 Mywik wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Aren't Warhounds FW and not escalation , the only titan in escalation is the eldar one ?

FW released a list of units that are legal in escalation shortly after the escalation release. The Warhound is in that list.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Forge World does not get a say in what is legal in anything except Apocalypse.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Aren't Warhounds FW and not escalation , the only titan in escalation is the eldar one ?

FW released a list of units that are legal in escalation shortly after the escalation release. The Warhound is in that list.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Forge World does not get a say in what is legal in anything except Apocalypse.

Sorry ... but what?

With the publication of Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, players now have the option of taking Lords of War choices in their armies. The following is a list of Forge World models that should be considered Lords of War choices and may therefore be taken using the guidelines detailed in Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, along with the publication in which the model’s most up to date rules can be found.

Looks like they have a say. What are you trying to say? Please dont start a "FW isnt official"-debate no one cares about.

I'm saying the rules for which Lords of War may be taken are in the Escalation supplement. There are currently no other official Warhammer 40'000 rules that allow you to take Super Heavies or Gangantuan Creatures in regular 40k.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'm saying the rules for which Lords of War may be taken are in the Escalation supplement. There are currently no other official Warhammer 40'000 rules that allow you to take Super Heavies or Gangantuan Creatures in regular 40k.

And the FW list i posted says you can take the units listed as LoW. So why start a useless debate about officialness?

Escalation is a supplement. I don't see how that makes "every game" an Escalation game. Cities of Death and Planetstrike were also both supplements. GW just didn't put the line about it being an alternate game mode in the 6E supplement books like they did in publications past, because I think they expect players to be courteous toward each other.

Unfortunately, expecting your fan base to be courteous to each other when you dislike your own fanbase so much you don't respond to emails, strip the official forums and basically don't maintain a PR department to relate to the fans at all is hilariously misguided.

Escalation is an alternate game mode. Casual players aren't going to want to play you if you're utilizing it's rules, and it's up to tournaments whether it's an Escalation tournament or not. Looks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. It's probably a duck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mywik wrote:

And the FW list i posted says you can take the units listed as LoW. So why start a useless debate about officialness?

Lots of people get really upset when you bring up the topic of Forgeworld because they got stomped by a guy utilizing a model bought from there once upon a time, or so I find. They are also the types of people who run Tri-Riptide and Eldar Jetbike Warlock Councils. Go figure.

Because in the escalation and stronghold assault books it says , that each one of them is a codex and not a supplement. You can't make a codex illegal , if you could people would not play against eldar, tau, demons at all.

On Topic:

Escalation is great when both are aware of it. We had a lot of fun with it so far but noone in their right mind would bring a LoW to a game without saying so in advance.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Escalation is a supplement. I don't see how that makes "every game" an Escalation game. Cities of Death and Planetstrike were also both supplements. GW just didn't put the line about it being an alternate game mode in the 6E supplement books like they did in publications past, because I think they expect players to be courteous toward each other..

A codex is listed as a supplement too, is't it?

Mywik wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'm saying the rules for which Lords of War may be taken are in the Escalation supplement. There are currently no other official Warhammer 40'000 rules that allow you to take Super Heavies or Gangantuan Creatures in regular 40k.

And the FW list i posted says you can take the units listed as LoW. So why start a useless debate about officialness?

Said list includes many units that are not, in fact, legal for regular 40k as they are not included in the Escalation supplement.

SRSFACE wrote:Escalation is a supplement. I don't see how that makes "every game" an Escalation game. Cities of Death and Planetstrike were also both supplements. GW just didn't put the line about it being an alternate game mode in the 6E supplement books like they did in publications past, because I think they expect players to be courteous toward each other.

You're confusing supplements with expansions. Expansions are alternate game modes, supplements are official rules for the regular game.

Thanks for your Opinion on fw.
Can we now go on with the topic?

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Mywik wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'm saying the rules for which Lords of War may be taken are in the Escalation supplement. There are currently no other official Warhammer 40'000 rules that allow you to take Super Heavies or Gangantuan Creatures in regular 40k.

And the FW list i posted says you can take the units listed as LoW. So why start a useless debate about officialness?

Said list includes many units that are not, in fact, legal for regular 40k as they are not included in the Escalation supplement.

With the publication of Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, players now have the option of taking Lords of War choices in their armies. The following is a list of Forge World models that should be considered Lords of War choices and may therefore be taken using the guidelines detailed in Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, along with the publication in which the model’s most up to date rules can be found.

I do believe you are mistaken.

Believe what you want, we've derailed this thread enough as is.

I don't think Escalation is brilliant because of how one-sided games are when one side has D Weapons and the other does not.

That is true. Escalation would have been fine if it weren't for D weapons. They could have given some sort of defense against it, but nope, that would have been fair...

 crazyfoxdemon wrote:
I have no problem with Escalation and would gladly play it if both players agreed upon it. However, that's the thing. If both players agree upon it. I'm not about to force my Stompas on someone who doesn't want to play against them. That just makes things not fun for everyone.

You are a gentleman.

 PrinceRaven wrote:


You're confusing supplements with expansions. Expansions are alternate game modes, supplements are official rules for the regular game.

Just like you're confusing literal meanings of words with intent?

Until I see it printed in the main rulebook gargantuan creatures and lords of war are just part of the main game, and it continues to require an extra book which adds several extra rules to the game, I am not playing against someone utilizing gargantuan creatures and lords of war (without a lot of prior notice so I can be prepared.) I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment. I also don't think I'm alone in that if/when something like that happens, I'll move on to greener pastures of other games.

I don't think it helps to nitpick over the semantics of supplementary versus expansionary rules. Both of them -- Apocalypse, which isn't described by GW as an expansion anyway, and Escalation -- are external to the core rulebook, and the new units depicted are extra to the standard codexes.

Only people who have bought the extra rules know how to play with them. The population of Apoc/Esca purchasers is a subset of the population of 40K purchasers, so there is often going to be a problem when you bring the new rules and units to a standard game.