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I won't lie. I am a HUGE Red Alert Fan. Something I'd like to pitch to you is the idea of a studio like Behaviour Online (currently working on EC) who actually listens to their fans and so far has designed a game around what they hope we will like. If for some reason the stars aligned and Red Alert 4 was designed in a similar fashion (lets say we win the lottery and EA funds it without any pressure - yea, the lottery). What would you want to see in the game?

Here's me:

The Storyline:

Soviet Russia has again lost world dominance against the Allies and their technological backer; Future Corp. They re-enter the time machine to save their empire and quickly discover that the existence of the time machine is threatened from its own repeated use. They are spat out of the machine, the knowledge of its workings lost forever in space time. The Russians discover that the year is exactly where they had left off, only that they had made the journey hundreds of thousands of times, their countless paths irrevocably changing the course of history into a truly nightmarish present. World War 2 has not ended in over 70 years, and though Nazi Germany has been bulldozed and the Berlin Wall erected, the Cold War is far from frozen. Without the great minds to create Nuclear Arms, the superpowers are instead forced to drive their ideologies across the globe in endless conquest. Only, now that the worlds fossil resources are at the brink, bringing new players to the fold:

4 Major Factions - Each with 4 sub factions (a country) that generates 1 unique ability and 1 unique unit

Soviet Russia (Tesla Tank) - East Germany (Bolshevik Spy), Ukraine, (Spetznaz) Northern China, (Suggestion?) North Korea (Desolators)

Empire of the Rising Sun - South Korea, Japan, Indochina, India

The Allies - America, Great Britain, France, West Germany

The Golden Crescent - Columbia, Vietnam, Iran, The Congo

Although the conflict is clearly still between Soviet Russia and the Allies, an entire world at war stands between them. Unlike the Cold War, there are no people immune to the influences of ideology here. The Empire of the Rising Sun has again invaded Russia from the east and south and the America's at the east and north, The Berlin Wall is at the center of the War for Berlin between the Soviet powers and the Allies (The Russian's call it New Stalingrad), the mountains of Persia, the Andes, valleys of Africa, and even the streets of New York sing with the sounds of war as the new Faction, the Golden Crescent, backed by the global arms production tycoon; Future Corp fights a guerrilla war against the other factions to starve the superpowers from vital natural resources on virtually every continent. The Black Banners of the extremist Islam are rising as the other powers waste themselves; all the while Future Corp waits in the shadows, knowing its time for global domination is about to arrive. What is more disturbing, no one knows for sure who is at its head....

Resource Gathering:

Resources are no longer gathered by ore miners. They are gathered by using an engineer to capture Military Industrial Complexes - a variety of things such as Oil Rigs, Banks, Factories, Docks, Airports, ect. A faction's building that is considered its Refinery now amplifies the amount of resources gathered per tick.


Soviet Unit List:

Infantry All infantry can fortify an available building. They can also attempt take a fortified building from an enemy - but will only do so at a 3:1 ratio. (It will take 3 of your infantry to get rid of one of their infantry)

Trained from the Barracks

Conscript (No secondary Ability) - Cheap as ever, the trusted AK more than makes up for their lack of training. Can't swim. Can't climb. (Can be upgraded to field anti-infantry sniper rifles)

Terror Drones - Fast moving but very fragile drones that can burrow into stone, steel and flesh with ease. They kill infantry instantly, armored vehicles in seconds, and can tear apart a building if an Engineer does not repair it. Terror Drones can also burrow, turning into a land mine or sea mine in water. They can swim and climb quickly. Requires a War Factory to Produce. Detects disguised units.

Engineer - At the cost of resources, can build a sturdy bunker, repair neutral or friendly buildings over time (keeping him alive) or instantly (destroying him). Can also build a Sputnik base expansion. Can capture any enemy structure. Can swim and climb.

Flak Trooper - Anti-Air, Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle shoulder mounted Flak Cannon. Only hits infantry 50% of the time. Deals very little damage to structures. Can't swim or climb.

Tesla Trooper - Anti- infantry, Anti-armor Tesla weapon. Can deliver emergency power to bases and supercharge Tesla structures. Cannot swim or climb.

Spetznaz (Ukraine only) - Quick Firing anti-infantry specialists. Can lay stealthed charges on anything or anyone that blow up on command. Can swim and climb.

Desolators (North Korea only) - Fires a horrifying gamma beam that lays waste to vehicles and infantry. Can deploy into a blinding nova that looks like a star's supernova that kills or maims anything that does not have heavy armor - including friendly units, even those fortified in buildings. Cannot swim or climb.

Bolshevik Spy (East Germany) - A unit capable of disguising itself as any other infantry. Upon entering a refinery: diverts all further resource gain for 1 minute to your pool. Any unit producing building is instantly captured. A power plant shuts down power to the base. MCV will allow all further Spy's to be much harder to detect.

Vehicles

Produced at the War factory - Unit is not amphibious nor can it climb cliffs unless specifically expressed.

Hammer Tank - Medium tank sporting a main T-99 cannon that can level vehicles and structures. The armament can be switched to a reaper machine gun that can deal with its weight in infantry.

Telsa Tank (Russia) - Medium tank that can tear apart infantry and vehicles with its twin Tesla Cannons. Can deliver emergency power to bases as well as supercharge other Stationary Tesla weapons.

Flak Track - A quad barreled flak gun that tears through infantry and air units. Can transport 5 units. Amphibious.

V4 Rocket Launcher - Launches a variety of armaments. Heavy direct payloads of crushing structures, clustermines, or even a deadly burst of gamma radiation.

Apocalypse Tank - Twin barreled Heavy Tank with missile pods mounted on its huge turret. It can withstand awe inspiring amounts of punishment, and deliver it back in kind to any unit, land, sea, and air.

MCV - in case you lose it or want insurance.

Air

Constructed at Airport

Twin blade - Exactly as they were in RA3 - Fires salvos of anti-infantry machine gun fire, followed by salvos of anti-vehicle/anti-structure rockets. Transports up to 5 infantry or one land vehicle.

MiG - Fast movers. Has a limited supply of rockets, but can launch them at ground and air targets.

Kirov Airship - Needs no explanation. It should in my mind get an upgrade to put some sort of machine gun or rocket pods on its structure to at least be able to put up a fight against the many targets that will be attempting to bring it down.

Naval

Constructed at the Naval Base

Giant Squid - Terror Drones of the Sea! They have returned!

Akoola Submarine - Stealth Sub that can launch torpedoes - it can also launch dorsal surface to air missiles.

Battleship - Old school hard knocks of the sea. Can take loads of punishment and dish it right back out. Lenin would be proud.

Dreadnought - Fires the same deadly array of V4 rockets as its land counterpart - only faster and more of them.

MCV - in case you lose it or want insurance.

Soviet Structures

The Soviets have the unique ability to make their structures part of the war effort by being able to fortify them all.

In Tech Order:

MCV - Main Construction Vehicle. Builds all your structures. Having more than one allows you to build more structures faster.

Salvage Yard - Nearby vehicles will repair, allows you to build structures, units can be salvaged for a percentage of their total cost.

Power Plant - Needed to generate power that keeps a base functioning at full speed. If destroyed it will unleash a small burst of gamma radiation.

Barracks - Trains infantry.

Refinery - Increases rate of resource gain.

Concrete Walls - Blocks off areas from invaders - cannot be fortified.


War Factory - Constructs Vehicles - Upgrades: Faster production times, cheaper costs, trains multiple units at once.

Naval Base - Constructs Naval Vessels - Upgrades: Faster production times, cheaper costs, cheaper costs, can repair 5, 7 naval units at once.

Airfield - Constructs Airborne Units - Upgrades: Faster production times, cheaper costs, can resupply and repair 6, 8, 10 flying units at once.

Ghencobyl Power Plant - The mad scientist, Ghencobyl is credited with creating a volatile mixture of chemicals that can sustain a truly massive reaction that is barely even contained within the turbines of this reactor. More of a weapon than a source of power, it nevertheless can be depended upon to sustain a huge draw of power. Lenin help you if the core goes critical. (The blast radius of this power plant is enough to destroy an entire city all on its own. Its large enough to be bigger than a super weapon and the fallout from it lasts quite a long time. You definitely don't want this thing in your base.


Tesla Coil - Standard.

MCV upgrade - War Academy - allows the production of superstructures and superweapons.

Kremlin Walls - Thick Walls that can be fortified with infantry.


Superstructures

Star Command - Propels cosmonauts along with spy satellites and much greater threats to the final frontier. Allows you to spy on great portions of the battlefield and launch STHEEL RHAIN upon your enemies, in the form of somewhat inaccurate rockets and even the ability to bring down the satellites when they are no longer of use.

Mass Production Line - Decreases the cost of all units and increases their rate of production.

Superweapons

Nova Missile Launcher - Launches a missile packed with the same volatile mixture as Ghencobyl's reactor. Upon detonation, the weapon devastates the area with a huge burst of gamma radiation, melting the facades of structures, vehicles, and people alike.

Iron Curtain - Make anything invulnerable for a short period of time. Kills infantry.

What do you think the list so far? What should the Allies have, the Empire of the Rising Sun? The Golden Crescent? I'll come back and fill in the Gold Crescent for certain. I'm definitely open to ideas, comments, and suggestions. I hope this example is good enough to get us started.


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The Empire of the Rising Sun

Backstory: Surviving an assassination attempt by the Golden Crescent against the Emperor himself, the Empire has presented itself as the main adversary towards the Golden Crescent. As a result, every pipeline into its territory has been shut off, leaving it no choice but to fight an increasingly uphill battle to secure what little resources remain that will keep its war effort running until it can perfect its Oni-PsiCore technology. Its encroachment into allied territory has been met with outrage at the already besieged Allies, and its attempts to secure a diplomatic resolution to use the Siberian gas fields were met with immediate hostility by the Soviets. Having no other choice, the Empire has taken advantage of the sudden chaos the Golden Crescent has roared into life amongst and limps on, covertly preparing to launch an attack in the Pacific that will not only destroy Pearl Harbor, but make landfall in every Western Coastal city in the United States and Canada. If the Empire is to survive the vice-grip the Crescent is applying, then the reserves of the United States will be necessary until the Oni-PsiCores are ready for production.

Infantry

Produced at the Barracks.

Imperial Guard - Well trained infantry capable of temporarily shielding themselves from small arms fire with a burst of their Psi-Oni Shields. Can swim.

Tao Battlesuit - Infantry encased a well armed mobile battlesuit. The wearer switches automatically between two armaments that allow it to best engage land or air targets. Weapons not suited well against infantry. Can hover over water and jump up or down cliffs.

Cleric Shinobi- Dispatches Infantry as though they weren't even there with twin pistols. Shots fired from infantry only have a 43% chance of hitting. His Psi-sword causes instant death to any unit in melee range. Can apply smoke bombs that make him even harder to hit and can infiltrate structures - causing the same effects as an allied spy. Can swim and climb.

Dao Battlesuit - Flying infantry in a less armored battlesuit. Very capable of quickly destroying infantry and light vehicles.

Engineer - Captures and repairs buildings. Can also repair vehicles by standing near them. Can swim and climb.

Produced at the Warfactory.

Vehicles

Typhoon - A light twin barreled tank that excels at hit and run. Amphibious.

Riptide - 7 man transport armed with an anti-infantry weapon and naval torpedoes.

Tsunami - A light-medium tank that automatically repairs itself and has an ability to focus its cannon into alignment that can punch holes into virtually any armor. Amphibious.

X7 - Transforming helicopter who's missile rain the Emperor's fury upon anything.

X9 Oni - A large battlesuit that carries a Psionic Wave Cannon that can level a city block. It can charge, bulldozing just about anything it runs beneath its feet. Can walk under the water. If it does, its rate is slowed considerably.

Air

Produced either at an Upgraded Warfactory, or an Upgraded Naval Base.

G-Zero Fighter - Air superiority fighter that kamikaze's itself into the nearest available enemy if shot down.

Naval

Produced at the Naval Base:

Mini-sub - One man scout subs that can kamakazi themselves into the enemy.

Strike Cruiser - Fires guided missiles from its deck, capable of engaging any enemy in range. Detects subs.

Nanoframe generator - support vessel. Cannot attack but generates a temporary nano-frame matrix that units cannot pass through.

Drone Carrier - The Empire's response to the Allied Aircraft Carrier has all but forced the allies out of the water.

Shogun Battleship - Its battle cannons hammer the coffin nails of the Emperor's enemies into the sea. They out range anything on the water.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Allies

Backstory: Fighting for global peace in the name of life, liberty and the pursuit of God given capitalism the Allies have become entrenched against the Red Menace now marching upon the Berlin Wall with no act of appeasement in sight. Focused for the past 70 years on this goal, the Allies, especially America, has not realized that although they have benefited greatly by continually sowing for peace and avoiding total war against the Soviets, the rest of the world has fallen into almost complete chaos. Without hope from the Allied nations coveting their great wealth and advancements against the ever present Red Menace, the third world nations fell upon a readily available cure to their plight. Faith. Moreover, radical Islam swept across the globe, forming a new paradigm for those who had virtually nothing: take it from those who had virtually everything. You'd think the Allies would have seen the enemy coming, but as the Empire of the Rising Sun seemed to dawn over the Pacific, their worldview shrank considerably. Realizing quickly that its long time strength of the sea was to be lost against the dominant forces of the Empire, and the sudden terrorist attacks in New York and countless financial institutions across the globe, the Allies redoubled its loans from FutureTech to create an air dominance that would put peace back into the minds of every militant on the globe.

Infantry

GI - From the best trained armies on earth, they can move, firing machine guns that tear apart infantry or deploy sandbags that make them a force to be reckoned with even against tanks. (Can climb, but can't swim.)

Jarhead - The allies many elite; infantry are no mach against their AR-15s "Peacemakers" and they assault fortified buildings at a 1:3 ratio instead of a 3:1. They are the Allies engineers - costing as much as one! Can climb and swim.

Special Forces - Costing as much to train as a tank, the enemy is guaranteed to fear them. They stealth like mirage tanks and can hit either infantry, or air units with impunity. They carry satchel charges that can be thrown onto buildings and detonated - but will reveal them. Can climb and swim.

Spy - Does what all spies do. Disguise themselves, get in deep, steal the goods. Can climb and swim.

Vehicles

Emancipator - Medium Tank. Its mass reactive shell stuns other vehicles for a very short period of time - delaying their attacks and slowing them down by a brief margin. Does not stack.

Liberator - Troop transport with anti-tank LAW rockets. Amphibious.

Mirage Tank - Tanks capable of mirroring nearby landscape to make them almost impossible to detect. Its cannons obliterate infantry and armor alike.

Pacifer - Mobile hovercraft with twin machine guns that tear through infantry. Can deploy into siege mode. - Hovers over terrain (cannot climb)

Air

Liberty VTOL - British made Jump Jets capable of laying down the law on anything that gets too close with its bursts of smart missiles. They can hover in place and act like helicopters but are significantly faster when flying.

Warhog - Anti-tank Anti-Structure fast mover that fire anti-tank rounds out of a nose mounted minigun and can drop napalm on areas of the earth that smoke out infantry from fortifications. The scorched earth and debris left behind these things is enough for most armies to think twice about moving forward.

UR-FKD 22 - Stealth Fighter that can destroy entire squadrons of enemy planes before even being detected with its strafe cannons. Moving out of stealth, it can fire against ground targets, hammering infantry with the same satisfaction.

VTOL "Harrier" Carrier - American's at first reluctantly gave up the seas fearing the loss of their beloved air craft carriers to the Empire of the Rising Sun who might replicate their designs. They were not disappointed when factories began producing the VTOL carriers however, capable of launching whole squadrons of Liberty VTOL's and resupply them without even having to touch the ground.

Naval

I'll come back to this.


The Golden Crescent

Backstory: Envy has driven the worlds exploited by the superpowers into an underground movement that has become a global empire in its own right. Black markets from around the globe gather a lion's share of arms and supplies from the three world powers, making the Golden Crescent a force to be reckoned with in its own right. Fanatical to the extreme, the followers are mainly a violent sect of Islam, although many others have come into the fold. Triads from China, Generals from the Congo, mercenaries from the Netherlands, and even whole drug Cartels from the Americas. Though the faith does not bind them, a mysterious figure, known only as the Prophet has with a promise of inheriting the world from the ashes of Imperialism. Over the course of almost seven decades, the Golden Crescent has begged, borrowed and stolen just every bit of technology from the superpowers and covertly raised entire armies under the tensions of globe inching ever closer to total war. Gaining the backing of the founder of Future Tech in 1945 with large oil contracts in the Middle East, Venezuela, and even Vietnam, the Golden Crescent has virtually exploded with wealth in the last two decades; obsessing itself with the one treasure it did not yet have: power. With the backing of the world's richest corporation, FutureTech, the Golden Crescent was even able to make an attempt on the Emperor's life in his own home. Although failed, the mere audacity of the event sent shockwaves around the globe. With the simultaneous terrorist attacks from New York to Moscow, the Golden Crescent has begun to rise out of the darkness to a world that has not yet been able to comprehend how deep this faction's roots run, and they are more likely to find out what lies on the dark side of the moon, than the identity of the Prophet.


Infantry


Triad - Basic streetrat armed with allied AR-15's. Can climb, can't swim.

Terrorist - Can sabotage buildings and bridges, set timed charges to anything that moves, or destroy themselves in a lethal blast. Can disguise themselves as enemy troops. Can climb, can't swim.

Mujahideen - Armed with Stinger Missiles that are the bane of Kirov's and allied VTOL's alike. Captures and repairs buildings. Can climb, can't swim.

Mercenary - Ex-Patriots of the world's Elite. Armed with Barret 50 Cal Sniper Rifles that can deal significant damage to tanks and massacre infantry at range. Deals very little damage to buildings. Can swim and climb.

Vehicles


Flame Tank - A medium anti infantry tank capable of digging beneath the earth to its destination and setting fire to buildings. Can transport 5 infantry. It cannot dig through concrete.

Stealth Tank - A light, but heavy hitting tank that is stealthed in motion. If it remains stationary, is fired upon, or fires, it loses stealth for several seconds. Amphibious.

Doom Buggy - Very fast moving raider. Equipped with a heavy machine gun and armed with almost thirty pounds of C-4, it can deal with infantry, or be sent into just about anything, dealing significant amounts of splash damage. If armed with a terrorist's payload, the effect is doubled.

Scorpion Tank - A Multiple Missile Launch System that fires a heavy barrage of missiles over long distances. It spells doom to just about anything caught in its blast radius.

Tank Hunter - An unmanned tank that specializes in anti-armor.

Demolition Truck - Using stolen technology from the dreaded Russian scientist, Ghencobyl, this truck is capable of leveling a small city - at the expensive of itself and its slightly unhinged driver.

Air

C-44 Hornet: Columbian funded air superiority fighters. Designed to challenge the skies and be able to deliver just about anything while doing so, it is armed with Russian designed sidewinder missiles, and capable of parachuting in up to 3 passengers.

C-A1 Hellion: Congolese piloted attack helicopter that can dominate infantry and lightly armored vehicles with its twin spitefire machine guns.

More coming later...

I opened this thread under the impression that someone had actually made Red Alert 4, so I was quite disappointed to find this was just some ideas. That said, I would play the gak out of what you just described.

I would give you my money if this turned out to be the actual history fro RA4, it could reedem the whole series after RA3

Well that's awesome! I'm glad you guys are keen on seeing something like this someday. As far as graphics and style is concerned, what would you like to see?

Well, a similar style to RA3 would make sense.

Too much.

Really what I mean about that is too many factions.

C&C has always been strongest when it was two major powers of equal footing going at each other. To mix things up they provide expansions that include a third faction but that faction was always designed to be weaker then either faction but the very existance of it made the two main powers unite to quickly finish off the new group just so they wouldnt need to deal with it. (Yuri, Cabal, )


While Generals was fun, its story suffered in the "how does this faction still exist" considering the overwhelming force being used against the GLA which should have seen the GLA cease to function as a legit organzation with 5 years (not magically invade Europe and defeat a Superpower)

RA3 tried again and created this minor "why are we wasting our time here" problem when the story was clearly focused on the old powers with Japan randomly speaking up and saying "hey pay attention to us"



Your suggestion involve not 3 but 4 factions? Its just too much. Though I give you major props for all the work you put into thinking of this. Im just providing my personal opinion.




On a side note, why is Japan so powerful in this/RA3 because that flies in the face of history. Every single thing the Allies had and even a lot of Soviet tech was Leagues better than the Jap equivalent. I just never understood why people felt that Japan would logically have laser weapons and lights sabers and flying mech warriors in an alternate history


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Well that's awesome! I'm glad you guys are keen on seeing something like this someday. As far as graphics and style is concerned, what would you like to see?

As Corpsesarefun said, a similar style to RA3 makes the most sense. I HATED that design.

I would vastly prefer the realistic looking Generals over the cartoon/boxy looking RA3. (of course have infantry that actually look good like RA3 had)


C&C3 looked great also

Red Alert was always cartoony and nonsensical, that's the point in Red Alert.

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
Red Alert was always cartoony and nonsensical, that's the point in Red Alert.

Yeah pretty much, though I will agree that 3 was pretty bad compared to 2/Yuri's revenge.

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
Red Alert was always cartoony and nonsensical, that's the point in Red Alert.

Yes, but the humor is lost if it looks cartoony and nonsensical. Part of the brilliance of Red Alert 2 was that it was ridiculous (see: the opening cutscene ), yet it's aethestic was muted and subtle, which provided a contrast to the nonsense that was going on.

RA3 ruined that by making the aesthetic cartoony. No contrast -> No humor.

Also, the Empire of the Rising sun from RA3 was an abberation. The RA series is a parody of the Cold War. The Japanese was hardly a major player in that.

Yuri made more sense, since that was playing on the whole "the russians have super secret psi/genetic weapons project!!!" conspiracy.

A few things:

Although I agree that the Japanese were handled wrong in RA3, a look at history reveals that Japan was actually quite advanced in comparison to Russia. This fact is most apparent in the near forgotten Russo-Japanese War that proved definitively that Japan was the undisputed power of the Pacific seas after their fleet sunk Russia's in its own waters - contributing to the sediment that the Czar's had to go and Soviet Russia had to rise, because they were wasting their efforts in Imperialism, and losing while doing it. In fact, it could be even argued that Japan had one of the greatest navies in the world - both in sheer strength and technology - before America began to mass produce its own navy on a scale that only Russia could rival in its tank producing facilities. The attack on Pearl Harbor devastated America's battleship fleet, and America largely won the war of the pacific because of its near holy aircraft carrier.

The reason why Japan could in essence be more technologically advanced in an alternate history: Without the invention of nuclear weapons, Japan would not have surrendered until America invaded it and performed a near genocide of its people. In RA histroy, they would have become almost irrelevant in the eyes of Russia and America now staring at each other and realizing that the rest of the world is up for grabs. As the superpowers focused on carving up the world for themselves Japan would likely do what it has done in our own history - revitalize itself. The Japanese don't have have a lot of natural resources to sell, so instead, they design things the world wants in order to refund its government. They trade bombs for books, invest heavily into education and churn out engineers, scientists, and doctors as the other powers continue to build their armies. Japan becomes a manufacturing superpower as their scientists explore the realm of computing, robotics, and information sciences, freeing a laborforce to move outside of the factory and into the university. The system is self perpetuating. Their wares are sold everywhere, blooming in the USA as every household, every man woman and child has something the Japanese (and their outsourced factories) have produced. Japan is flooded with money, and the Allies marvel at the technology, incorporating it into their own military - creating weapon systems that keep Russia thinking twice about engaging NATO in Europe. But, in secret, Japan has held a resentment for their humiliation - a disgrace no knightly samurai would let stain his nation. This resentment has been an unsaid movement towards putting Japan back to its rightful place - king of the seas and everything she touches. They develop their own technologies, in the name of their Emperor that will exact this vengeance across the globe. They know that because they will never outman the other nations - they will outfit every one of their soldiers to engage hundreds of theirs.

That's basically the gist of Japan. I mean Japan could even have been defeated at one point - It didn't stop Germany from rising again... did it?

Well I think the number of factions should stand, seeing how I like a few different takes on a conflict and what not. But you would really need to walka knife edge while making this, seeing how each one should get rougly the same amount of spotligth.
As for looks I would very much prefer the style of C&C Generals to the RA3 one, but preferably I would see it a lot more girtty and a feeling of loss seeping trough my pc screen as i delve into the game. This should be very much the case for levels set in the third world whom seems to have been left behind even more so in this game.
As for your gripp on Japan I approve of it, looks like a good way to go about it

Out of curiosity, what sort of tech are you talking about for this re-imagined Japanese faction?

One of the reasons I hated the Empire of the Rising sun in RA 3 was that their tech did not fit into the story of the game.

How could the absence of nuclear tech result in them having nanites and photon weapons?
Research in atomic fission lead to sub atomic research, which lead to research in those fields, iirc.

Just had a thought...

We could just say the story to RA3 never happened, and just continue it from RA2. Since the series takes place in a alternate history where WW2 never happened, Japan was never nuked by the US, meaning that their infrastructure would still be intact. Since nukes (and therefore particle theory) is still around, they can retain some of their advanced tech from RA3 (though not all of it - it went a bit too far in some cases).

Much like pre-WW2 Japan, they would have produced a lot cheap luxury goods that were sold to the west (you know how today everything is "made in china"? Back then it was "made in Japan), that would gradually increase in quality and demand, up to the point that, during the events of the game, the Japanese economy rivals that of the US and the USSR.

You can even throw Yuri into the mix - just say that the Japanese recovered one of his clones from the Yuri war, and did some ground breaking research into neural tech, even incorporating some of it into their machinery and AIs.

Because those technologies don't require the knowledge of splitting the atom.... they only require the study of the makeup and nature of atoms; research that had been conducted and theorized over for centuries.

I completely understand the direction of RA3's theory of a non-nuclear weapon based game. Even though RA is by far the best RTS ever, I don't understand how we all just bought into the idea that a 1990's era Soviet Union, with thousand of its own nuclear warheads, couldn't just wipe the earth clean of the US after it disabled their nuclear arsenal while keeping theirs in tact.

What I'd like to see in RA4 is that the nations involved only understand that nuclear weapons will basically change the paradigm of power on the planet forever, but FutureTech , in its vast foresight has mercilessly hunted down those responsible for research of nuclear fission with the Golden Crescent - keeping any side from building a program capable of conducting the necessary research. With its vast wealth, FutureTech has also gobbled up the services of the worlds best scientists... and you can probably imagine what they want to build with them....

Better yet, the Golden Crescent believes that it is their sacred duty to protect the world from nuclear armament - a sediment that has been exploited by FutureTech as it attempts to arm itself in secret... and wow'lah, we have a gripping plot as the world tears itself apart in a race for nuclear armament, and a glorious revolt in the following expansion pack where the Golden Crescent launches an all out crusade against FutureTech's inevitable betrayal of the world's protectors marching ever closer to judgement day. What's more, in a perfect world, I'd have Yuri be revealed as the head of FutureTech, "resurrected" by a wrinkle in time that pulled the Soviets from the future, and himself from the past. He is almost unrecognizable from his journey, his calculating mind unraveling into a death spiral of madness; he is no longer interested in controlling the world, but obliterating it in a nuclear holocaust!

Yes, those theories existed before fission. But fission is what proved those theories are valid. Without the insight that was provided by nuclear fission, those theories would have remained theoretical.

Without nuclear fission, for example, we would not have been able to prove the electromagnetic interaction with various particles, nor would we have established that it is, in fact, possible to turn lead into gold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals

Also, the concept of no nukes in RA3 is rendered moot when the Soviets can just drop orbital waste or a weapon that more or less have the same effect as a nuke (sans radiation) on a target.

How would the USSR been able to deactivate the US's nuclear arsenal? They managed it in RA2, but that was with the aid of Yuri, who had his own ulterior motives - you can't enslave atomic waste.

Now, this FutureTech organization policing and confiscating nukes to serve it's own motives is a plot I can get behind.
Fission would still exist, so there would be no irregularities with sub-atomic research.

Read your Edit - love the idea of Yuri coming back. I love that crazy bastard
I would say the whole destroy the world shtick is a bit over used, but considering how the game is a pastiche of 1950s tropes, I'm fine with it
Throw in T-Rexes with Psi-cannons, and you have a winner xD

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
Red Alert was always cartoony and nonsensical, that's the point in Red Alert.

Red Alert was not cartoony though. It was very realistic actually. The Allies were made up of Abrams (mediums) APC, US Willy Jeeps (Rangers), Pattons (light), Apaches and the Soviets had all sorts of real units like MiG 29s, Yaks, MI-24 Hinds, the MiG that was a real MiG but I forgot its name.

Red Alert 2 started to get a bit more animated but everything still had a very realistic look behind it and the items that did look like odd balls (Dreadnoughts, Kirovs) had at least PART of the design that looked perfectly normal.

Red Alert 3 was just a full blown cartoon though. Compare the Command Center side by side in all 3 games you will see what I mean


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 DemetriDominov wrote:
A few things:

Russo-Japanese War that proved definitively that Japan was the undisputed power of the Pacific seas after their fleet sunk Russia's in its own waters - contributing to the sediment that the Czar's had to go and Soviet Russia had to rise, because they were wasting their efforts in Imperialism, and losing while doing it. In fact, it could be even argued that Japan had one of the greatest navies in the world - both in sheer strength and technology - before America began to mass produce its own navy on a scale that only Russia could rival in its tank producing facilities. The attack on Pearl Harbor devastated America's battleship fleet, and America largely won the war of the pacific because of its near holy aircraft carrier.

But Japan was never undisputed. They always had America's navy as its rival disputing any claim they had to the Pacific which is the entire reason Japan decided to attack America. But Im more interested in the last line there. America's entire military was always more advance than Japans. The US hadnt realized how to use that technology yet was there problem. Weapons, Tanks, Ships, radar. Literally the only thing Japan had on the US in technology was the Zero to the Wildcat but the Wildcat survivability allowed pilots to survive and learn from their mistakes so that would be even at best until the Corsair and Hellcats came into service. Thats what Im confused at. In WW2, Japan worse one of the worst nations in terms of technology yet many video games love to give them incredibly advance technology for some strange reason.

The reason why Japan could in essence be more technologically advanced in an alternate history: Without the invention of nuclear weapons, Japan would not have surrendered until America invaded it and performed a near genocide of its people.

Interesting note. Hitler being killed would have had no impact on the Pacific which means the Pacific war would still have happened. This is shown in Red Alert 2 with the Arizona Memorial and Iwo Jima Memorial and a single united Republic of Korea. Apperently Japan still invaded and the US still had to go to war against Japan ending with the defeat of Japan. (not idea if Japan was defeated with Nukes or traditional invasion. )


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


We could just say the story to RA3 never happened, and just continue it from RA2. Since the series takes place in a alternate history where WW2 never happened, Japan was never nuked by the US, meaning that their infrastructure would still be intact. Since nukes (and therefore particle theory) is still around, they can retain some of their advanced tech from RA3 (though not all of it - it went a bit too far in some cases).

Oh i made a post before I saw that. As I just said. The Pacific War DID happen in RA2


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Throw in T-Rexes with Psi-cannons, and you have a winner xD

that sounds beautiful

Good point about the Pacific War. I must have missed the Iwo Jima memorial in my play through of RA2.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Good point about the Pacific War. I must have missed the Iwo Jima memorial in my play through of RA2.

Its in the Soviet Campaign. Operation Red Dawn (first level) the Soviet Paratroopers land right next to it and one of the conscripts replaces the flag with a Soviet flag

Bwahaha! Now I remember it.

I chuckled the first time I saw it

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Bwahaha! Now I remember it.

I chuckled the first time I saw it

I always found that funny also

 Galdos wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
A few things:

Russo-Japanese War that proved definitively that Japan was the undisputed power of the Pacific seas after their fleet sunk Russia's in its own waters - contributing to the sediment that the Czar's had to go and Soviet Russia had to rise, because they were wasting their efforts in Imperialism, and losing while doing it. In fact, it could be even argued that Japan had one of the greatest navies in the world - both in sheer strength and technology - before America began to mass produce its own navy on a scale that only Russia could rival in its tank producing facilities. The attack on Pearl Harbor devastated America's battleship fleet, and America largely won the war of the pacific because of its near holy aircraft carrier.

But Japan was never undisputed. They always had America's navy as its rival disputing any claim they had to the Pacific which is the entire reason Japan decided to attack America. But Im more interested in the last line there. America's entire military was always more advance than Japans. The US hadnt realized how to use that technology yet was there problem. Weapons, Tanks, Ships, radar. Literally the only thing Japan had on the US in technology was the Zero to the Wildcat but the Wildcat survivability allowed pilots to survive and learn from their mistakes so that would be even at best until the Corsair and Hellcats came into service. Thats what Im confused at. In WW2, Japan worse one of the worst nations in terms of technology yet many video games love to give them incredibly advance technology for some strange reason.

The reason why Japan could in essence be more technologically advanced in an alternate history: Without the invention of nuclear weapons, Japan would not have surrendered until America invaded it and performed a near genocide of its people.

Interesting note. Hitler being killed would have had no impact on the Pacific which means the Pacific war would still have happened. This is shown in Red Alert 2 with the Arizona Memorial and Iwo Jima Memorial and a single united Republic of Korea. Apperently Japan still invaded and the US still had to go to war against Japan ending with the defeat of Japan. (not idea if Japan was defeated with Nukes or traditional invasion. )

1. The attack on Pearl Harbor devastated the Pacific Fleet and almost put the US out of the war. Japan largely viewed the attack as an overwhelming success, but its admirals knew better because they had not sunk the the 4 carriers of the US Pacific fleet. If they had, the US would not have recovered in the Pacific in the way it did. Midway would have been a route for the US, if even a battle, and the other islands that followed would have claimed many more American lives. Japan may have even been able to launch an attack against the mainland of the United States - but more than likely, Japan would have sown for peace after showing its dominance of the seas without the US having carriers to have Wildcat survivors to even return to. Had Japan succeeded in destroying our Carriers instead of our Battleships, as we had by wars end, the war in the pacific would have been a much different outcome. Therefore, the holy grail, the linchpin the United States has relied upon to dominate the seas in the past 70 years has been the revered air craft carrier.

2. It is speculated that Korea, wasn't actually going to be put into the game as Korea, but as Japan: fighting for the allies, but the developers thought better of it because they are the only nation on earth where nuclear bombs have actually been used and they thought designing maps for the soviets to nuke would be extremely disrespectful. In any case, the Japanese in reality were blessed with possibly the greatest growth in technology sector the world has ever seen in the 1950's. With American funds and bases to monitor a resurgence in imperialism, Japan grew until about 1990 and then suffered a stifling gradual depression the world rarely ever talks about that has lasted as late as 2010. They call it Japan's lost 20 years, and it can certainly be used to fuel a video game's resentment towards a noble Japan being abandoned by the world, even after it has revolutionized it with the technology you and I are communicating with right now.

1. The attack on Pearl Harbor devastated the Pacific Fleet and almost put the US out of the war. Japan largely viewed the attack as an overwhelming success, but its admirals knew better because they had not sunk the the 4 carriers of the US Pacific fleet. If they had, the US would not have recovered in the Pacific in the way it did. Midway would have been a route for the US, if even a battle, and the other islands that followed would have claimed many more American lives. Japan may have even been able to launch an attack against the mainland of the United States - but more than likely, Japan would have sown for peace after showing its dominance of the seas without the US having carriers to have Wildcat survivors to even return to. Had Japan succeeded in destroying our Carriers instead of our Battleships, as we had by wars end, the war in the pacific would have been a much different outcome. Therefore, the holy grail, the linchpin the United States has relied upon to dominate the seas in the past 70 years has been the revered air craft carrier.

2. It is speculated that Korea, wasn't actually going to be put into the game as Korea, but as Japan: fighting for the allies, but the developers thought better of it because they are the only nation on earth where nuclear bombs have actually been used and they thought designing maps for the soviets to nuke would be extremely disrespectful. In any case, the Japanese in reality were blessed with possibly the greatest growth in technology sector the world has ever seen in the 1950's. With American funds and bases to monitor a resurgence in imperialism, Japan grew until about 1990 and then suffered a stifling gradual depression the world rarely ever talks about that has lasted as late as 2010. They call it Japan's lost 20 years, and it can certainly be used to fuel a video game's resentment towards a noble Japan being abandoned by the world, even after it has revolutionized it with the technology you and I are communicating with right now.

You quoted me and im not actually sure why on either part lol.

Point 1 is completely accurate in every way and no one was disputing that. My point was always that the US had better equipment and technology than Japan.

As for the 2nd one, well im really confused on your point there. I also never heard of that Korean being Japan instead, where did you hear that because that seems weird.