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GreyChaos wrote:
Praise be to you, mighty Windows 7, your spirit has faltered in the past, but you remain true to me and to the tower which you serve. Take my humble offering of a disk de-fragment so that you may ever operate smoothly and aid me in my darkest hours.

This is exactly it!
It's the same as when you sit in your beat up old car on a cold morning and chant " Please work, come on come on pleaaase don't fail me car" as you turn the key and wait for it to start. Except the Ad Mech have seemingly observed this and assumed the ritual is actually integral to the start process of the car and don't realise that it actually doesn't achieve anything at all.
It's all just superstition which is exactly what the 40k Imperium is founded on.

I thought I recalled reading an old bit of fluff that when people are executed, their souls are bound to machines, if they don't just become servitors themselves? Same I think, for the ones that just die due to old age. Which I think, explains some of the personality questions.

Though, I imagine that would cause some issues, especially if a young child wound up as something like the door controls.

*Looking up as the vox rings* "Captain Sebastian, what seems to be the problem?"
"Techmarine Lorkan, I am trapped in my quarters again. The door always opens as I approach, but the minute I attempt to move, it slams shut in my face."
"I'll be right there"
Ten minutes later, outside the new quarters for the Captain of the 6th Company. "Right, now, you've had your fun. You let the captain out right now, or your going to be in trouble."
*The door remains closed, the light at the top pulsing slightly*
The techmarine turns around. "Fine then, you just forfeited your sanctifying oil baths for the next month."
*The door swings open instantly with a loud chirp to reveal an irate Captain.*
"Thank you Techmarine. How did you get it to open so quickly?"
Lorken smiles. "Simple, my lord. The spirit merely wished to play a game. Threaten to take away it's favorite thing, and it quickly will fall back in line."

It's too NSFW to post here, but if you skip down to the section entitled "Why everything is so grimdark", this 1d4Chan article presents the best explanation of the AdMech that I've seen.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus

 Psienesis wrote:
It's too NSFW to post here, but if you skip down to the section entitled "Why everything is so grimdark", this 1d4Chan article presents the best explanation of the AdMech that I've seen.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus

I have to second that.
Once you sort out all of the heresy and promotions, 1d4chan actually has some very good (and funny) information on many subjects. Especially their AdMech explanation.

 Engine of War wrote:
I have personally found the "prayers to the machine spirit" more akin to mnemonics. like PEMDAS or other math memory things, the actually words seem to be used to remember how to do something.

Like say...
Reloading a lasgun properly. The addition of "the machine spirit has answered my prayers" is the religious and superstitious aspects technology has gained to the majority of the imperium. They have no idea HOW it works but these mnemonic phrases for say... fixing your car or turning on the coffee machine etc seem to really work so they much be important! best follow them really carefully with religious fervor!

the machine spirit itself varies from actual computer systems, to the belif that every machine, from lasguns to Baneblades have some sort of consciousness that must be appeased in some way to make it work correctly.

This isn't a belief. A lot of IOM tech either has shattered AI's in it probably from the DAOT or actual human minds used as CPU's in some tech.Ships and titans for example are sentient.

 ansacs wrote:

A computational system does not have to be made of metals and silicon. You can make them from proteins and lipids (similar to human brains) and in 40K they do seem to make entirely artificial versions without taking the brain out of a person. If this has any form of intelligence then it is an artificial intelligence. Therefore while they no longer make iron men they are making entirely artificial intelligence's and then programming them, they are called space marines. At their basic idea level the astartes are very very similar to the iron men...they even went all "skynet" on the imperium.

The more something is like ourselves the less we fear it, the more it diverges, the more different it is, the more it inspires fear. (Except when you hit the Uncanny Valley, eurgh, man things are creepy there).

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Machine Spirits are the semi-sentient remnants of an incredibly advanced AI from the Dark Age of Technology iirc.

Also: where does this idea actually come from? I seen it referenced a few times on boards like this one, but I know of no corroborating 'canon' material. Is it just a fan theory with a lot of traction?

 Pendix wrote:

 ansacs wrote:

A computational system does not have to be made of metals and silicon. You can make them from proteins and lipids (similar to human brains) and in 40K they do seem to make entirely artificial versions without taking the brain out of a person. If this has any form of intelligence then it is an artificial intelligence. Therefore while they no longer make iron men they are making entirely artificial intelligence's and then programming them, they are called space marines. At their basic idea level the astartes are very very similar to the iron men...they even went all "skynet" on the imperium.

The more something is like ourselves the less we fear it, the more it diverges, the more different it is, the more it inspires fear. (Except when you hit the Uncanny Valley, eurgh, man things are creepy there).

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Machine Spirits are the semi-sentient remnants of an incredibly advanced AI from the Dark Age of Technology iirc.

Also: where does this idea actually come from? I seen it referenced a few times on boards like this one, but I know of no corroborating 'canon' material. Is it just a fan theory with a lot of traction?

Uh, no. This is because ships and titans are actually described as being alive. And actually having emotions. Some machine spirits will even go on a rampage if their pilots die, especially land raiders. It's quite a common thing in the Black Library.

Pendix wrote:

 ansacs wrote:

A computational system does not have to be made of metals and silicon. You can make them from proteins and lipids (similar to human brains) and in 40K they do seem to make entirely artificial versions without taking the brain out of a person. If this has any form of intelligence then it is an artificial intelligence. Therefore while they no longer make iron men they are making entirely artificial intelligence's and then programming them, they are called space marines. At their basic idea level the astartes are very very similar to the iron men...they even went all "skynet" on the imperium.

The more something is like ourselves the less we fear it, the more it diverges, the more different it is, the more it inspires fear. (Except when you hit the Uncanny Valley, eurgh, man things are creepy there).

Funny thing is this is a very common sentiment in philosophy texts and literature. However every single psychology study I have ever seen on the subject shows that the more similar something is to a human the more disturbed by it we are. Take for an example a human corpse versus a dead tree. Which are you more disturbed by? When shown a pictures of their own face the subjects will feel least disturbed by a drastically modified image not recognizable as being humanoid and most disturbed by a a picture altered to be a asymmetric enough for them to recognize the deformity.

Same way that your dead PDA doesn't disturb you but your dead personal assistant, Ted probably would. Especially if in your pocket.


It also should be noted that the IoM machines often become possessed by warp entities. These are usually drawn to emotions. This would indicate that there might be something to there being more than just rumor as to the sentience of IoM tech.

 Pendix wrote:
Also: where does this idea actually come from? I seen it referenced a few times on boards like this one, but I know of no corroborating 'canon' material. Is it just a fan theory with a lot of traction?

Not really. Think of it this way. After the war with the Men of Iron, AIs are oulawed and destroyed wherever found. The only option of real use to them now are the leftover, much smaller, VIs. Most wound up being fragmented, but some are more whole than others. Add that with enough time to experiment and make more, and you come up with the common form of the Machine Spirit. Taking a human brain and using it as a computer, you wind up with past memories clouding the system, and vague personalities to it. Considering just how crazy some of the pilots wind up being, you have a heavily imprinted impression placed on the system, further devoloping a personality.

Which is how we have land raiders with dead pilots going, "Those greenskins killed Master! It's time for revenge"

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
I thought I recalled reading an old bit of fluff that when people are executed, their souls are bound to machines, if they don't just become servitors themselves? Same I think, for the ones that just die due to old age. Which I think, explains some of the personality questions.

Though, I imagine that would cause some issues, especially if a young child wound up as something like the door controls.

*Looking up as the vox rings* "Captain Sebastian, what seems to be the problem?"
"Techmarine Lorkan, I am trapped in my quarters again. The door always opens as I approach, but the minute I attempt to move, it slams shut in my face."
"I'll be right there"
Ten minutes later, outside the new quarters for the Captain of the 6th Company. "Right, now, you've had your fun. You let the captain out right now, or your going to be in trouble."
*The door remains closed, the light at the top pulsing slightly*
The techmarine turns around. "Fine then, you just forfeited your sanctifying oil baths for the next month."
*The door swings open instantly with a loud chirp to reveal an irate Captain.*
"Thank you Techmarine. How did you get it to open so quickly?"
Lorken smiles. "Simple, my lord. The spirit merely wished to play a game. Threaten to take away it's favorite thing, and it quickly will fall back in line."

Wow... Just wow... Brilliant!!! Also is it just me or did we pull this back from the brink of death?

 Dannyrulx wrote:
Wow... Just wow... Brilliant!!! Also is it just me or did we pull this back from the brink of death?

Thanks? Also, what do you mean, the thread or the piece of fluff?

The thread mate...