Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am still putting together my nid army and I have been wondering about this. Is there any point to running a CC flyrant? Are they effective? Or are they outclassed by the dakka version? Can these be fielded for the purpose of tying up units while the spotters make their way across the board? Or is this a waste of points?

Let's see. You charge with a CC tyrant (assuming you pass grounding checks, overwatch and charge distance), hit 3-4 attacks, wound on 3-4. While a dakka flyrant shoots 12 twin-linked devourer shots at BS 4 at the same strength.

Which is better?

Flyrants are not a good option for tying up units. They lack the survivability to sit there and take hits.

If you do send one into close combat for some reason, you don't lose too much by taking guns. But you gain the ability to hose down a squad before getting stuck in, or to fire quite a few overwatch shots.

A Hive Tyrant is always a CC monster, no matter how you outfit him. Even with the 2 sets of devourers, he'll have 4 base attacks (5 on the charge), hitting most things on 3+, wounding most things on 2+, and AP2 from being a monsterous creature. Pretty good for a shooty unit, which is why most peeps are running them with the dual devourers...best of both worlds.

As for if CC is a good idea for a Tyrant, it'll change from game to game. Against some opponents it may be a good idea to spend your time swooping around the board causing havoc, against others it may make sense to lock the tyrant in combat (and keep it from being shot to death).

They're like dakka flyrants, except without awesome shooting.

They greatest assets of FMCs are the durability they gain from staying in the air, and the maneuverability gained through greater move speed.

Landing to enter cc wastes both of these benefits,

with competitive flyrants in mind, a build which shoots from the air is better than one which lands and hits things. Dakka tyrants by all means can, but having the guns gives them so much more.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Let's see. You charge with a CC tyrant (assuming you pass grounding checks, overwatch and charge distance), hit 3-4 attacks, wound on 3-4. While a dakka flyrant shoots 12 twin-linked devourer shots at BS 4 at the same strength.

Which is better?

If your opponent got 3+ or 2+ armor and some nasty AA in the backfield? mh.. i guess CC most of the times.

But as somebody mentioned before, 2 devourers might cost you an attack but gives you a lot of Dakka. Only benefit of CC flyrants equipped with Boneswords and lashwip is that he can kill Riptides, Wraithknights and other MCs in turn 2 due to ID on 6.

So if you dont need or want that ID option stay with the devourers, you can still assault most targets and dont have to worry. The nice Thing about flyrants is their high mobility. You can pick your Targets as you want and nobody could escape expect other FMCs.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
They greatest assets of FMCs are the durability they gain from staying in the air, and the maneuverability gained through greater move speed.

Landing to enter cc wastes both of these benefits,

I disagree with you. Its not always a good idea to stay in the air. Some armies will force a lot of grounding tests, shoot you down with their AA or both. Hiding in CC with weak enemy units you can handle in a turn or two might sometimes be the better idea until major threats to youre flyrant are wiped out. A dead flyrant that get killed in turn 3 is such a waste because 24 twin linked S6/Ap- shots for more than 200 points? Really not a good trade.

I always figure that my fly rants are better in combat...so many opponents don't care about the death of 3 marines from dev shootingin comparison to a flyrant in range to be torn to bits...

Not taking the Devourers really just allows you to spend those points on adrenals...which makes all the difference in getting to combat

I also like buying standard boneswords and toxin...allows you to defend your swarm and means your damage potential is wasted against a vehicle-less meta.

Big Blind Bill wrote:
They greatest assets of FMCs are the durability they gain from staying in the air, and the maneuverability gained through greater move speed.

Landing to enter cc wastes both of these benefits, Dakka tyrants by all means can, but having the guns gives them so much more.

I disagree with you. Its not always a good idea to stay in the air. Some armies will force a lot of grounding tests, shoot you down with their AA or both. Hiding in CC with weak enemy units you can handle in a turn or two might sometimes be the better idea until major threats to youre flyrant are wiped out. A dead flyrant that get killed in turn 3 is such a waste because 24 twin linked S6/Ap- shots for more than 200 points? Really not a good trade.

I didn't say say should stay in the air all the time. I said the greatest benefits of being an FMC are their durability and speed from being flyers. As I said, dakka tyrants can do cc if they need to, but building one for cc is not as good as building one for shooting.

I've started running a melee winged Tyrant with the Reaper of Obliterax as well as the standard twin-Devourer setup. They play as very different units.

The twin-Devourer Tyrant is an all-purpose generalist with good shooting, good melee, good everything really. It dances around the field lending support where ever it is needed.

The Reaper Tyrant is an entirely different beast, and I think it needs to play like a hunter-killer unit. Choose targets it will have maximum effect against, and decimate them. With Adrenals, it can get S8 on the charge and with 6 attacks it can cleave through a huge number of T4/multi wound models in short order. It also functions as a great "big game hunter", when a more generalist Tyrant may struggle against such foes (Wraithknights etc). I do take a Thorax Swarm for when it isn't in melee, and together with Vector Strike I'm still getting my two shooting attacks in each turn.

I think a "winged asasain" build is just fine, if you can swing it though, you can magnatise and have both available.

I think a Bone sword, lash whip, with Toxin is a real killer, and points allowing, can be even tougher. (Adrenal, Reaper...) Heck you can even toss in a Tail...I agree that a Thorax weapon is a very good buy as well.

Against enemy MCs Bone swords rawk, and you will see plenty in the current Meta....

If I desperately wanted a sword and whip, I'd still run a set of devourers and a thorax swarm. An extra attack is not worth giving up 6 T/L strength 6 shots.
It's still a reduction in damage output, but the sword and whip do add a bit of tactical versatility, I guess.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
If I desperately wanted a sword and whip, I'd still run a set of devourers and a thorax swarm. An extra attack is not worth giving up 6 T/L strength 6 shots.
It's still a reduction in damage output, but the sword and whip do add a bit of tactical versatility, I guess.

That's my set-up.

HT
-Wings
-1x TL Devourer w/ BLW
-LW + BS
-Toxin Sacs
-Thorax Swarm

If the Reaper is not being run by something else

HT
-Wings
-1x TL Devourer w/ BLW
-Reaper of Obliterax
-Thorax Swarm

This is only because of the regular appearance of Wraith Knights and Demon Princes I find in my meta though.

Note on the Reaper: I never run Adrenal Glands with it. You might think the extra +1S on the assault is good but when you're fighting other melee monsters, re-rolling all failed to-wound rolls and IDing on 6s you generally want to re-roll everything that is not a 6.