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Here is from BoLS:

WARHAMMER 40,000 7th EDITION

7th Edition arrives in May

-A "true" release
- Updated fortification rules
- Integrated super-heavy rules
- Clarifications and FAQed rules from 6th
Lower quality chatter speaks of:

-Overwatch altered to deny shooting next turn
-Unit to unit assault leaping via consolidation moves returning to the rules


Will these last 2 points make assault a viable choice?

If it makes Assault better than I'm all for it (as a CSM, Mono-Khorne Daemons and Ork player, I'm completely fine with Nerf's to shooting )

The Overwatch change maybe not, since that unit would probably be locked in combat next turn anyway, so mostly Tau (Supporting Fire).

The consolidating into other unit thing? maybe. Depends on the range of it, should be easy enough to space units out more (again, Tau suffer because of SF).

Honestly, I'm most interested if it means a move back to regular FAQ's (perhaps the hold was because the rules would be different and all the FAQ-writers (/janitors) would be working on the 6.5th versions).

The unit to unit assault would rebreak it so that it would once more be unbalanced. The alteration to overwatch would not make a difference anyway because the unit would not be able to fire in the following turn anyway since they will be dead or maybe locked.

Magic 8-Ball says: Reply hazy, ask again later.

That seems really fast for a 7th edition. Hasn't 6th only been out for a few years?

 Rotary wrote:
That seems really fast for a 7th edition. Hasn't 6th only been out for a few years?

They're fixing the trainwreck that is 6th.

they are rebreaking the edition that fixed the trainwrecks that preceded it.

 EVIL INC wrote:
they are rebreaking the edition that fixed the trainwrecks that preceded it.

In fairness, it's a very unbalanced edition. There's almost no point taking a melee army.

 Rotary wrote:
That seems really fast for a 7th edition. Hasn't 6th only been out for a few years?

I think just 1 year?
or a year and a half or so

I very doubt it'll be a 'true' 7th edition. The other rumours I've seen (and more likely to be true) are a combined rulebook with the FAQs and Erratas included with an expanded section that include all/some of the Escalation and Stronghold assault rules.

I don't think they'll shake it up too much, which is a shame, because I'd be all for a complete overhaul.

Gentlemen, Overwatch is the most overpowered thing in certain armies.

Some armies (I know I always bring this up, but the farsight bomb) can hit and run after combat, meaning they could potentially get 3 rounds of shooting in the space of two turns. The overwatch changes are warranted.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Gentlemen, Overwatch is the most overpowered thing in certain armies.

Some armies (I know I always bring this up, but the farsight bomb) can hit and run after combat, meaning they could potentially get 3 rounds of shooting in the space of two turns. The overwatch changes are warranted.

Regardless of whether or not its warranted, its just highly doubtful that GW would make a change like that unless an entirely new edition is released, which is also very unlikely this time in to the current edition.

I wouldn't put much stock in a revamped or new edition. It'll most likely be a re-print with more stuff included. Its the easiest way to make the most money with the least amount of effort.

 EVIL INC wrote:
The unit to unit assault would rebreak it so that it would once more be unbalanced. The alteration to overwatch would not make a difference anyway because the unit would not be able to fire in the following turn anyway since they will be dead or maybe locked.

Oh right cause making the charge is a guarantee in 6th? ... No. This would be a very welcomed change. Sick of missing out charges cause 10 Firewarriors blasted off 20 Overwatch shots killing 2-3 Ork Boys, only to fail the charge, then have same said Fire Warriors rapid fire the rest of the squad again.

I would love for deep striking assault to be back, but not outflanking assault..

It would be nice to have a reason to get my melee nids back on the table. Bringing a mostly shooty bug army seems unfluffy to me. Bugs are meant to hack you to pieces in my opinion.

The proposed alteration to Overwatch isn't really needed, but isn't really going to matter that much anyway.

The proposed alteration to consolidation moves is ludicrous. I don't want to go back to the old days where one giant assault unit sweeps the entire board without a shot being fired.

I feel the pain for those who played assault-based armies in 5th since 6th really pumped the brakes on assault. Overwatch in 6th is really not too much of a deterrent to me if I really plan on charging someone. Its the other random factors, such as random charge distances, special rules that buff overwatch (which are not needed in my opinion), etc. that really make me think twice. To me, its that and the abundance of high powered shooting stuff that is really make it more difficult on assault armies.

I used to play SM with Terminators which were probably one of the better assault units with TH/SS. After a few games in 6th against an army that had a 6th edition codex, I realized how plentiful AP2, high shot count, high strength weapons are and they became far less effective unless you added more points with a LR. If GW really wants to make those assault-based armies viable, there will have to be some minor changes made. Either shooting will have to be powered down (doubtful) or assault stuff will have to get some buffs (more likely).

Well, GW makes no thorough game testing when implementing new rules. Changing rules back and forth (consolitation was possible in the 3rd ed if I remember correctly) makes not much sense.

Warhammer 7th Edition out May 2014, incorporating data slates, escalation, stronghold assault, and some tweaks to 6th....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kingleir wrote:
Here is from BoLS:

WARHAMMER 40,000 7th EDITION

7th Edition arrives in May

-A "true" release
- Updated fortification rules
- Integrated super-heavy rules
- Clarifications and FAQed rules from 6th
Lower quality chatter speaks of:

-Overwatch altered to deny shooting next turn
-Unit to unit assault leaping via consolidation moves returning to the rules


Will these last 2 points make assault a viable choice?

40k radio said

Warhammer 7th Edition out May 2014, incorporating data slates, escalation, stronghold assault, and some tweaks to 6th....

They are right most of the time....

I honestly don't see why everyone has such a hate on for overwatch. Yes I play tau and blah blah blah supporting fire but I've never once had overwatch prevent a charge. I can only think of 1 assault where it did anything significant and that was just cause the dice gods truly favoured me for that roll. Most of the time I'm lucky to get a handful of hits and a wound or 2 (which is always promptly saved). If they switch overwatch so a unit that overwatches can't fire the next turn you're effectively singling out tau. since as mentioned with any other army the unit that fired will most likely be in combat or dead the next turn if tau do it half their army would just be sitting around for an entire turn with a dumb look on their face which gives the opponent a free turn of running up the board while your army sips tea and waves. Now combine that with consolidation into another melee and 1 assault against tau would be the end of the game since if 1 unit is assaulting chances are you have other units not far behind so a round of not shooting just allows the opponent to get there with no threat. You can't complain about overwatch if the army doing it does melee like a sissy slap fight. Every other army has a melee unit or upgrades to make melee at least an ok. Tau supporting fire is our entire melee capability we get it for 1 round and only if we get a 6 to hit. I'd just leave it as is and make assaulting out of deep strike an option as a disorderly charge and make assaulting out of reserves fine.

Well, well, well!

Now we can see why there have been no FAQs answered since April of 2013, which was when I had made my last purchase of GW product.

Honestly, after waiting several months after that particular April, I stopped playing altogether and moved onto other things to occupy my time. Things such as board games (Axis and Allies, Zombicide, even Chess and Stratego) and other non-game interests (Archery, Target shooting, Fishing, wood working, Beer making).

I actualy packed up all of my GW stuff into boxes and put them away in my storage shed just last month. It will remain there until I see some sort of improvement in the state of the game. I continue to keep an eye out on forums such as this one and hang out with my friends that still continue to play, but for now I am out.

I began playing in the later years of 4th edition, played regularly for seven years, spent thousands of dollars and ended up building three different massive armies. Orks, Space Marines, IG and a workable Tau army. I even read the Black Library books. At some point the product began to change making it less enjoyable. It was evidenced not only in the standard game, but in the books and Forgeworld as well.

It began to remind me of what happened to the comic book industry in the early 90's. I would read several titiles regularly and buy a few other titles from time to time. Yes there were a few different titles that covered the same characters such as "The Amazing Spiderman" and "Spectacular Spiderman" but you could follow one or the other without having to have the other title to understand what was going on. Then...everything changed. There was an explosion of books coming out that crossed over, across multiple titles! I couldn't understand what was going on in my issue of "Uncanny X-men" unless I also had "X-men", "X-factor", "X-force" (formerly "New Mutants"), Weapon X and who knows what else they added in just to get the sales of an underperforming book to increase. Even as a teenager I felt as though I was being had.

I first noticed things going that way while reading the Horus Heresy novels. I was following along fairly well, buying the books as they came out and enjoying them. Then other things began to crop up. E-books, audio only books (which I detest and aren't books) and Limited-gold-foil-dragonskin-written-in-the-blood-of-a-virgin-unicorn editions. I couldn't follow the story anymore due to holes that I was unable or unwilling to fill. So I stopped buying them .

The 40K games has gone the same way. I bought the new rule book, there were errors and discrepancies. They fixed a few, but not all. I could live with it knowing that they could correct them. Then they stopped correcting the discrepancies. Then there was a new suplemental rules printed in a magazine that I can never seem to get my hands on, due to limited printing. I eventually got those rules by downloading them for free from another source. They later printed those same rules into a supplemental rule book, that I wouldn't buy (because I downloaded them for free) People ran out and bought this supplemental rule book, for a hefty sum, only to see those that they needed pop up in another rule suplement that they would have to purchase anyway in order to play their prefered army. All the while answering no inquiries about discrepancies in this pile of rules.

Now, there is the rumor that there will be a new rule book that will clarify the mistakes that they made. While I have no doubt that there will be a book, I do doubt that it will truly fix much, More like, create a new batch of discrepancies, if the examples of the recent past are any indicator. To summarize the issue at hand...they are expecting me to buy their product, sight unseen with the expectation that this time....this time.....this time it will be better.

If GW wants to know why their stock dropped or why their sales are down, it's me and everyone like me. They aren't losing me, they've already lost me. I am giving them the opportunity to win me back.

Brutal Viking wrote:
I honestly don't see why everyone has such a hate on for overwatch. Yes I play tau and blah blah blah supporting fire but I've never once had overwatch prevent a charge. I can only think of 1 assault where it did anything significant and that was just cause the dice gods truly favoured me for that roll. Most of the time I'm lucky to get a handful of hits and a wound or 2 (which is always promptly saved). If they switch overwatch so a unit that overwatches can't fire the next turn you're effectively singling out tau. since as mentioned with any other army the unit that fired will most likely be in combat or dead the next turn if tau do it half their army would just be sitting around for an entire turn with a dumb look on their face which gives the opponent a free turn of running up the board while your army sips tea and waves. Now combine that with consolidation into another melee and 1 assault against tau would be the end of the game since if 1 unit is assaulting chances are you have other units not far behind so a round of not shooting just allows the opponent to get there with no threat. You can't complain about overwatch if the army doing it does melee like a sissy slap fight. Every other army has a melee unit or upgrades to make melee at least an ok. Tau supporting fire is our entire melee capability we get it for 1 round and only if we get a 6 to hit. I'd just leave it as is and make assaulting out of deep strike an option as a disorderly charge and make assaulting out of reserves fine.

Overwatch is free, it has no downside.

The only armies it has an impact on are those that work better as assault forces, because it is another thing they have to contend with (they've always had to travel across the table somehow, and now in 6th have the potential to be screwed over by random chance even if they make it.)

Back in 2nd, Overwatch represented a tactical decision, as you had to forgo not only your movement but your shooting in your own turn in favour of firing at a target in your opponent's turn that might not have been viable in your own, and forcing your opponent to make considered decisions about their own movement.

6th Edition Overwatch has none of that nuance or decision making, it's just a rule that passively benefits shooting focused factions and lists over assault focused ones. It just gives extra free shooting.

I'm ok with overwatch staying in the game, but how's about making it something that the player has to make a decision about, but making it more effective if they choose to use it?

Also should be allowed to charge after running

The phases should be looked at as blocks of time (each phase is 30 seconds) no military or fighting force would spend 30 seconds in a battle doing nothing (I ran all this way now I'm just gonna stand here for 30 seconds just doesn't make sense.

Each phase should have a couple options of things to do in it like...

movement:
move
Aim (grants precision shots)

shooting:
shoot
Run (a set distance not a random one)

assault:
assault/move
Shoot snap shots (not overwatch)

and if a unit is in combat that Combat should be resolved after each phase not just the last one.

 azreal13 wrote:

Brutal Viking wrote:
I honestly don't see why everyone has such a hate on for overwatch. Yes I play tau and blah blah blah supporting fire but I've never once had overwatch prevent a charge. I can only think of 1 assault where it did anything significant and that was just cause the dice gods truly favoured me for that roll. Most of the time I'm lucky to get a handful of hits and a wound or 2 (which is always promptly saved). If they switch overwatch so a unit that overwatches can't fire the next turn you're effectively singling out tau. since as mentioned with any other army the unit that fired will most likely be in combat or dead the next turn if tau do it half their army would just be sitting around for an entire turn with a dumb look on their face which gives the opponent a free turn of running up the board while your army sips tea and waves. Now combine that with consolidation into another melee and 1 assault against tau would be the end of the game since if 1 unit is assaulting chances are you have other units not far behind so a round of not shooting just allows the opponent to get there with no threat. You can't complain about overwatch if the army doing it does melee like a sissy slap fight. Every other army has a melee unit or upgrades to make melee at least an ok. Tau supporting fire is our entire melee capability we get it for 1 round and only if we get a 6 to hit. I'd just leave it as is and make assaulting out of deep strike an option as a disorderly charge and make assaulting out of reserves fine.

Overwatch is free, it has no downside.

The only armies it has an impact on are those that work better as assault forces, because it is another thing they have to contend with (they've always had to travel across the table somehow, and now in 6th have the potential to be screwed over by random chance even if they make it.)

Back in 2nd, Overwatch represented a tactical decision, as you had to forgo not only your movement but your shooting in your own turn in favour of firing at a target in your opponent's turn that might not have been viable in your own, and forcing your opponent to make considered decisions about their own movement.

6th Edition Overwatch has none of that nuance or decision making, it's just a rule that passively benefits shooting focused factions and lists over assault focused ones. It just gives extra free shooting.

I'm ok with overwatch staying in the game, but how's about making it something that the player has to make a decision about, but making it more effective if they choose to use it?

^This. I liked how AT-43 did over watch. You declared the unit was going into over watch in your shooting phase and had to forfeit shooting this round as you prepared for the enemy. It made it a tactical choice and any unit declaring it only got to use it once, not for every unit that charged/shot/etc.

Brutal Viking wrote:
Also should be allowed to charge after running

The phases should be looked at as blocks of time (each phase is 30 seconds) no military or fighting force would spend 30 seconds in a battle doing nothing (I ran all this way now I'm just gonna stand here for 30 seconds just doesn't make sense.

Each phase should have a couple options of things to do in it like...

movement:
move
Aim (grants precision shots)

shooting:
shoot
Run (a set distance not a random one)

assault:
assault/move
Shoot snap shots (not overwatch)

and if a unit is in combat that Combat should be resolved after each phase not just the last one.

They should at least allow to charge from a stationary transport. This hampered cc oriented armies a lot.

Weird if they'll actually call it 7th Edition. Mostly because 6th has only been out for such a short time, and all the previous chatter was that GW wanted for 6th to last for a long time. That said, if it makes the game better, I'm all for it... but I'm not holding my breath on it actually accomplishing that.

Idolator wrote:

Limited-gold-foil-dragonskin-written-in-the-blood-of-a-virgin-unicorn editions.

LOL i would buy this books for sure

azreal13 wrote:
Overwatch is free, it has no downside.

The only armies it has an impact on are those that work better as assault forces, because it is another thing they have to contend with (they've always had to travel across the table somehow, and now in 6th have the potential to be screwed over by random chance even if they make it.)

Back in 2nd, Overwatch represented a tactical decision, as you had to forgo not only your movement but your shooting in your own turn in favour of firing at a target in your opponent's turn that might not have been viable in your own, and forcing your opponent to make considered decisions about their own movement.

6th Edition Overwatch has none of that nuance or decision making, it's just a rule that passively benefits shooting focused factions and lists over assault focused ones. It just gives extra free shooting.

I'm ok with overwatch staying in the game, but how's about making it something that the player has to make a decision about, but making it more effective if they choose to use it?

I'm all in for this change! makes the game more about strategy than just reminding some rules..

Brutal Viking wrote:Also should be allowed to charge after running

Bringin back the old meaning of fleet, yes sir!

 happygolucky wrote:
I would love for deep striking assault to be back, but not outflanking assault..

Watch Demons get really nasty if deep striking assault happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Havok210 wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

Brutal Viking wrote:
I honestly don't see why everyone has such a hate on for overwatch. Yes I play tau and blah blah blah supporting fire but I've never once had overwatch prevent a charge. I can only think of 1 assault where it did anything significant and that was just cause the dice gods truly favoured me for that roll. Most of the time I'm lucky to get a handful of hits and a wound or 2 (which is always promptly saved). If they switch overwatch so a unit that overwatches can't fire the next turn you're effectively singling out tau. since as mentioned with any other army the unit that fired will most likely be in combat or dead the next turn if tau do it half their army would just be sitting around for an entire turn with a dumb look on their face which gives the opponent a free turn of running up the board while your army sips tea and waves. Now combine that with consolidation into another melee and 1 assault against tau would be the end of the game since if 1 unit is assaulting chances are you have other units not far behind so a round of not shooting just allows the opponent to get there with no threat. You can't complain about overwatch if the army doing it does melee like a sissy slap fight. Every other army has a melee unit or upgrades to make melee at least an ok. Tau supporting fire is our entire melee capability we get it for 1 round and only if we get a 6 to hit. I'd just leave it as is and make assaulting out of deep strike an option as a disorderly charge and make assaulting out of reserves fine.

Overwatch is free, it has no downside.

The only armies it has an impact on are those that work better as assault forces, because it is another thing they have to contend with (they've always had to travel across the table somehow, and now in 6th have the potential to be screwed over by random chance even if they make it.)

Back in 2nd, Overwatch represented a tactical decision, as you had to forgo not only your movement but your shooting in your own turn in favour of firing at a target in your opponent's turn that might not have been viable in your own, and forcing your opponent to make considered decisions about their own movement.

6th Edition Overwatch has none of that nuance or decision making, it's just a rule that passively benefits shooting focused factions and lists over assault focused ones. It just gives extra free shooting.

I'm ok with overwatch staying in the game, but how's about making it something that the player has to make a decision about, but making it more effective if they choose to use it?

^This. I liked how AT-43 did over watch. You declared the unit was going into over watch in your shooting phase and had to forfeit shooting this round as you prepared for the enemy. It made it a tactical choice and any unit declaring it only got to use it once, not for every unit that charged/shot/etc.

That's the way overwatch worked in second edition. It got to the point where no one moved, but just stayed hunkered down, waiting for someone's head to pop out.

Consolidating from combat to combat makes me a sad panda, but as long as they can pull it off better than the 3rd edition days I'll most likely grin and bear it (at least over-watch is still a thing).

*shudders imagining CC units sweeping across an entire army*