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 dementedwombat wrote:
Consolidating from combat to combat makes me a sad panda, but as long as they can pull it off better than the 3rd edition days I'll most likely grin and bear it (at least over-watch is still a thing).

*shudders imagining CC units sweeping across an entire army*

That would swing things back away from shooting.

Which means players may well have to buy whole new units to remain competitive.

gak, its gonna happen (although as a Daemons player primarily, I feel slightly gleeful as I type!)

Eh, to be honest I play Tau and have since 3rd edition. I play in a pretty non-competitive group of people who mainly play assault armies (orks, BA, DE, Tyranids), so I really wouldn't mind having things stacked more against me. I usually end up feeling like a kid kicking down a sandcastle after most of my games.

That said, I think I recall in 3rd edition if you consolidated into a combat you immediately fought that combat in the same assault phase. You could also consolidate 2d6" I think... (don't hold me to this. It has been a very long time). So imagine what that would do to your demons. It would be at least as bad as a Revenant Titan is now, and if assaulting from deep strike was a thing again...

Anyway, that concludes your 40k history lesson for the day.

Relapse wrote:


Watch Demons get really nasty if deep striking assault happens.

As someone who likes to play Mono-Khorne, this could actually make my army somewhat competitive. With most armies having access to some sort of Interceptor weapon, I don't see how assaulting out of deep strike would be that unbalanced. Especially with the amount of firepower some armies can put out a turn. It makes no sense to forbid it anyway as you can run, or take the time to aim and fire your weapons at the opponent. But for some reason if you're a melee fighter you won't charge your opponent upon your arrival? Getting one action seems reasonable to me. Deepstrike, then run, shoot or charge. You would have to get more daring with your deep striking, plus you'll have to survive interceptor fire and overwatch.

I doubt these rumours are true. Weren't there also a lot of rumours about the new Fantasy edition coming this year?

 EVIL INC wrote:
The unit to unit assault would rebreak it so that it would once more be unbalanced. The alteration to overwatch would not make a difference anyway because the unit would not be able to fire in the following turn anyway since they will be dead or maybe locked.

Nope, assault units have been poor and they need this.

Something needs to be done about CC. I'd say assault from stationary transport and assault after running. Those make the most sense without opening things up for unforseen abuses. Assault out of deepstrike, but the cry from tau castles could be heard into the heavens (even though half of their entire fething army can get interceptor). Assault out of deepstrike is a bit more of a radical change than the other 2 meaning more room for things to go wrong. Knowing GW... you get the picture. It may not seem bad now, but hold your opinions till the end of the year after the BA and DE dexes drop.

Overwatch needs to be fixed as well. I like the idea of forefitting the shooting phase prior to declaring overwatch to represent preparing for the oncoming foe. Even if it were at full BS it would be eons better than giving the dominant armies essentially a free round of shooting to double the needed charge range.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Something needs to be done about CC. I'd say assault from stationary transport and assault after running. Those make the most sense without opening things up for unforseen abuses. Assault out of deepstrike, but the cry from tau castles could be heard into the heavens (even though half of their entire fething army can get interceptor).

And you know what we show them?

We show them this clip:




Or this one if you want that little bit extra duration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbIR51_J_qY

Please let me drink those gunline tears mmm...

Back to topic, I really want to see assault come back so that my Warp Talons have something to chew on

Consolidating is only D6", so if you can use it to get into another unit it only has a short range. 3rd Ed had you rolling 2D6 and engaging units you could reach, which has a much bigger effect.

I would be happy with this, even if they allowed some form of Overwatch for it.

Hell yes allow consolidation into assault. What I'd suggest is perhaps choosing to attempt a sweep *or* to disregard the sweep and go for the second assault.

You have to space out for pie plate shooty, I don't see why needing a little distance between units to avoid multiple assaults is an issue. Would certainly gak all over those aegis fort in a corner builds.

Would also appreciate "charge, then resolve overwatch", "failed charges move highest/lowest d6", and removing the double standard of deep strike/infiltrate/outflank and shooty/choppy - allow them both or disallow them both, don't allow one at full effect and gak on the other!

The problems with melee won't be fixed this edition. At best it'll be a patch job. I'd be fine with the current state of assault, if units designed for it were cheaper than super shooty units rather than the other way around. Making a unit deadly in close combat takes a significant amount of points and is still less killy even with the perfect set of conditions than a shooty list, often of the exact same units.

Anyway, I don't view this as "6.5" or "7." If what I'm hearing is correct, it's more like "6.1."

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
they are rebreaking the edition that fixed the trainwrecks that preceded it.

In fairness, it's a very unbalanced edition. There's almost no point taking a melee army.

Unless of course, you have a basic grasp of army building, strategy and tactics. Whereas before, there was no point in taking an army with guns even with those basic grasps.

I hope they don't change too much . I don't want to play against tau , eldar ,sm and necrons that are shotier and assault armies at the same time with my IG.

The problems with melee won't be fixed this edition. At best it'll be a patch job. I'd be fine with the current state of assault, if units designed for it were cheaper than super shooty units rather than the other way around. Making a unit deadly in close combat takes a significant amount of points and is still less killy even with the perfect set of conditions than a shooty list, often of the exact same units.

Anyway, I don't view this as "6.5" or "7." If what I'm hearing is correct, it's more like "6.1."

Exactly. People are panicking about "7th edition-already!" when it's really just a band-aid for all the brokenness in 6th. They are essentially selling us the errata.

 EVIL INC wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
they are rebreaking the edition that fixed the trainwrecks that preceded it.

In fairness, it's a very unbalanced edition. There's almost no point taking a melee army.

Unless of course, you have a basic grasp of army building, strategy and tactics. Whereas before, there was no point in taking an army with guns even with those basic grasps.

Just because you still spout this doesn't mean it has ever been true since maybe..3rd edition.

 EVIL INC wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
they are rebreaking the edition that fixed the trainwrecks that preceded it.

In fairness, it's a very unbalanced edition. There's almost no point taking a melee army.

Unless of course, you have a basic grasp of army building, strategy and tactics. Whereas before, there was no point in taking an army with guns even with those basic grasps.

When was this "before" you speak of?

He probably means in the past.

I think a simple fix would be, if a unit deep strikes, comes in from reserves, infiltrates, exits a vehicle or in some other way enters the game after the first turn, it may shoot or assault, but not both.

Think the overwatch patch would be a great buff for CC Armies.

Declaring charges on distances between 7-9" (or higher with fleet or jumppacks) would become reasonable, because the possibility to make it isnt too small and if you dont make it your enemy either wasted a shooting phase for some snap shots or did nothing. So you wouldnt be punished anymore to try an assault.

Its a real hard decision for the Defender and a nice nerf against tau who really needs to be nerved.

- Integrated super-heavy rules

What does it mean, I can bring Stormsword and kill all those mechanized things like meltavets,leman russes, landraiders, hovering vehicles and everything not flying high?
Or it will be limited range like Malcador/Machius/Crassuss?
To buy or not to buy Shadowsword?
Will you play against superheavy in friendly plays?

Aren't we glad we all paid for that nice 6th edition rulebook so we can then use it as a paperweight for when 7th edition hits?

 Dynamous wrote:
Aren't we glad we all paid for that nice 6th edition rulebook so we can then use it as a paperweight for when 7th edition hits?

I think people are putting a little too much stock in this rumour.

This rumour might well be a load of tosh, but I for one would be very happy if they had "rule book annuals" which updated the text with clearer rules and FAQ's on a regular basis.

Of course, I would expect them to leave these FAQ and errata online so you wouldn't need to buy the book, but I don't see why they feel the need to wait so many years in between fixing minor issues.

All the items mentioned here could be changed with essentially 1 line FAQ/erratas which could be put online.

Of course as a nid player I would dearly wish they also errata out the nonsense about not charging from reserve. Or why not change it so you can't shoot from reserve, see how those shooty armies love that eh?

 Dakkamite wrote:
HYou have to space out for pie plate shooty, I don't see why needing a little distance between units to avoid multiple assaults is an issue. Would certainly gak all over those aegis fort in a corner builds.

I'd be more willing to agree with this if people didn't insist on playing huge games on 6x4 tables where you have to pack everything in close just to be able to deploy your entire army. Consolidating into combat in a 2000 point game doesn't just punish ADL castles, it punishes any army that tries to take a decent defensive position (and guess what you have to do against an aggressive assault army).

And don't forget the potential for allies abuse: take Riptide spam to force everyone to spread out against the pie plates, and now that everyone has spread out so that their units are all next to each other your allied assault unit can start slaughtering everything.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
HYou have to space out for pie plate shooty, I don't see why needing a little distance between units to avoid multiple assaults is an issue. Would certainly gak all over those aegis fort in a corner builds.

I'd be more willing to agree with this if people didn't insist on playing huge games on 6x4 tables where you have to pack everything in close just to be able to deploy your entire army. Consolidating into combat in a 2000 point game doesn't just punish ADL castles, it punishes any army that tries to take a decent defensive position (and guess what you have to do against an aggressive assault army).

And don't forget the potential for allies abuse: take Riptide spam to force everyone to spread out against the pie plates, and now that everyone has spread out so that their units are all next to each other your allied assault unit can start slaughtering everything.

The problem is for that position it makes it far to easy for the shooting player, there's no issues beyond objectives at times. If for example shooting through your own troops had a penalty, it'd mean we wouldn't need consolidated combat, but as it is the castle formation is an easily defensible formation.

Is this from the same source that said:

tryanid warriors would get EW with synapse
snapshots only against genestealers etc
Combined mycetic spore/hive node kit etc etc etc. ?

Ie, of course as nid and ork players we'd like to see this, but ain't it just an exercise wishful thinking?

Probably a bluff. I'd wish for consolidate from vehicles, but consolidate into new combats seems too unlikely.

 EVIL INC wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
they are rebreaking the edition that fixed the trainwrecks that preceded it.

In fairness, it's a very unbalanced edition. There's almost no point taking a melee army.

Unless of course, you have a basic grasp of army building, strategy and tactics. Whereas before, there was no point in taking an army with guns even with those basic grasps.

Assault hasnt been king since 3rd. Do you play the same 40k as others?
5th was the shootiest edition to date, and was then made worse by 6th

Well, as a Daemon player I really hope this consolidation into a new combat is a pile of BS... I'm already tarred with the brush of being a WaaC's TFG just for playing the damn army, I don't need the added encouragement of a rules set that makes it even easier to hate-on every single Daemon player.

*IF* consolidation is making a return, then it should be done ala Fantasy version of the Overrun rule, meaning you only get it if you wipe out the enemy on the turn you charge.
Otherwise we'll have the fun times of 3rd ed making a comeback where one or two assault units were capable of happily walking through an entire opposing army with maybe one turn of shooting... (and if you think Daemons aren't easily capable of this, then you need to find yourself some better Daemon players!)

Daemonic Beast/Cavbus rush would become the new God Tier army overnight if consolidation comes back.

Anyone Played Risk:Legacy? They introduce new rules with stickers that you place into the rulebook. I'd totally buy a sticker pack to update my current brb (heck I'd probably buy one for every FAQ). Sure, they wouldn't make as much as selling a new one, but it wouldn't cost nearly as much to make either, and they could still sell their super fancy collectors edition.

instead of denied shooting next turn for overwatch units. I'd much prefer charging units can make their failed charge move distant if they want to.

It makes for a more exciting gameplay to have the enemy moving up to your position even after a few fell to overwatch.

The assault player will be more willing to engage assaults even on a 12" distance.

The overwatch player will get to overwatch once, then decide next turn to stand and shoot at full BS or retreat 6" to extend the range.

Some overwatch armies will benefit, like elder with the move shoot move. Others like tau might need to consider their overwatch support units location.