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The layout seems to be inspired by some really good dicegames, but a play-through would be nice to have.

 Azazelx wrote:
I was at the $200 level, but had to pull my pledge down to the $120 level when I found out the Conflict thing was a standalone dice game. I can always look at revising it back up later, of course.

I stared briefly at the $200 level, but you can get the $120 level plus the Mercs Rulesbook for $50, and skip the dice game. That's where I'm at right now.

 cincydooley wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Mercs is a hell of a budding system as well, with the V2.0 rules looking to really make it something special.

I didn't even know they were doing a V2 of the rules, so out of curiosity, what is going to make it "something special?"

I know they've looked at games like Malifaux in an effort to make the individual models more characterful. Right now Megacons all confer the same bonuses on their team, which makes sense, but then individual models have too little variance in what they do. So a good engine powers the game, but there isn't a lot of room for tricks.

Well, I hope they change the movement bit a bit.

Having move models always "exactly" one card-length (or multiples) is a bit of a pain. It makes sense in games like X-Wing I suppose, but in MERCS, it always feels stupid when "moving 1/4 inch less" would've made more sense in order to be in cover and/or look "more natural" with the scenery. Snap-to-Cover helps a bit, but it's a slap-on fix for a problem that wouldn't have to be there in the first place.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


I know they've looked at games like Malifaux in an effort to make the individual models more characterful. Right now Megacons all confer the same bonuses on their team, which makes sense, but then individual models have too little variance in what they do. So a good engine powers the game, but there isn't a lot of room for tricks.

.... So looking at Malifaux is going to make it special?

I guess I'm still confused.

 SavageRobby wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I was at the $200 level, but had to pull my pledge down to the $120 level when I found out the Conflict thing was a standalone dice game. I can always look at revising it back up later, of course.

I stared briefly at the $200 level, but you can get the $120 level plus the Mercs Rulesbook for $50, and skip the dice game. That's where I'm at right now.

If I bump back up, I reckon it'd probably be worth going in for the $200 if the extra $30 gets you all the card decks and some extra stuff. I'll have to watch a couple of demo games online. I've already got way too many boardgames and rulesets at this point.

I'm surprised and disappointed that there isn't a pledge that gets me all the recon expansions in one package. Even the $1500 pledge has to add $25 for the Sefadu mission pack.

There has been some talk about adding that kind of pledge in the comments. The developers have really listened to the backers and made changes in both MYTH and now with RECON,.... The alternate gender figs in MYTH was in direct response to backer comments. As was the new "MYTH Level" pledge for RECON that will give you only the unlocked MYTH crossover content from the campaign. If there is a lot of talk about something that makes sense,.... They usually make it happen. Voice your opinion.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
With regard to the v2.0 rule book:

They mentioned that it would be 400 plus pages (more than twice the v1 rule book) and would include character run downs on all ten members of each of the soon to be 12 factions (adding EIC and GCC during this campaign). Of course the lore sections will be expanded; and they also mentioned the addition of several different campaign systems.

As far as rules go, they have not let much out yet, but I would not expect the movement system to change,.... but it could, I suppose. There will still be cards for the listing of stats and abilities,... and you can see that the $200 pledge will have a great value as more and more of those decks are added. What they have said is that the rules have been revised. that there are new game modes added, as well as the ability to field two teams at once.

The 200$ pledge will have more value, but it will be unrelated to the game itself.

Edit

Then again the 300$ is not really for the game itself.

Does anyone else feel the SG gaps are already slowing this down? It feels like they really went to $50k SGs early here.

I'm going to compare this to Arcadia Quest, as they're about the same in price point and add-ons. Arcadia quest had 25K SGs from $100K to $500k, then went $50k up to $600k, and one last $100k SG. Recon is already at $50k SGs, their initial one was $70k, and I feel at the $120 level I'm paying retail for this already. And reading in the comments, 80% of the posters are die-hard Mercs/Myth people, who denounce anyone wondering at the ridiculous SGs and costs, and then you have the Mercs Company themselves saying how awesome their SGs are.

The fact that they gave us 6 Level 1 SecFor guys, when I believe it says there are 10 tokens for them (as the lowest level of SecFor in the game), and then they reward us effectively with 3 per base board game makes me scratch my head. But everyone in the comments section are just loving what these guys are pushing. Am I missing something? Honestly, if anybody can offer a viewpoint, I'm a little baffled by the start of this KS... I know all the Myth backers are saying that was a great KS, but this one is already more expensive, you get less in the board game, and the SGs are both way more expensive, and rewarding less. I am really glad to see that them opening up a paid add-on was tagged into another SG. I hate KSs, like Dwarven Forges current one, that "unlock" a paid add-on as a SG. You're going to make it to sell it anyhow, so why is that a SG?

I'm watching for 10 dollars. Not sold on much yet, a 400 odd page rulebook is unwieldy, A dice game isn't my cup of tea, though not looked into it all. I love the Mercs figs and I have some already, but the news on the previous page that only backers get upgrades is a wee bit disappointing, I like my selfish waste of monies on models to give something back. :-P

I think the tokens are not 1/1 stand ins for Sec For, but for a fog of war uncertainty.

Also if I am not mistaken the box contains Secfor miniatures anyway, so they are extra.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
Does anyone else feel the SG gaps are already slowing this down? It feels like they really went to $50k SGs early here.

I'm going to compare this to Arcadia Quest, as they're about the same in price point and add-ons. Arcadia quest had 25K SGs from $100K to $500k, then went $50k up to $600k, and one last $100k SG. Recon is already at $50k SGs, their initial one was $70k, and I feel at the $120 level I'm paying retail for this already. And reading in the comments, 80% of the posters are die-hard Mercs/Myth people, who denounce anyone wondering at the ridiculous SGs and costs, and then you have the Mercs Company themselves saying how awesome their SGs are.

The fact that they gave us 6 Level 1 SecFor guys, when I believe it says there are 10 tokens for them (as the lowest level of SecFor in the game), and then they reward us effectively with 3 per base board game makes me scratch my head. But everyone in the comments section are just loving what these guys are pushing. Am I missing something? Honestly, if anybody can offer a viewpoint, I'm a little baffled by the start of this KS... I know all the Myth backers are saying that was a great KS, but this one is already more expensive, you get less in the board game, and the SGs are both way more expensive, and rewarding less. I am really glad to see that them opening up a paid add-on was tagged into another SG. I hate KSs, like Dwarven Forges current one, that "unlock" a paid add-on as a SG. You're going to make it to sell it anyhow, so why is that a SG?

You have some really valid points there,.... we'll see if the SG stay at a $50k spread once those next ones are released. I know that they expected this to go faster than MYTH,... but I'm not sure that they were prepared for it to go THIS fast. (at this point in MYTH,.... no stretch goals were yet hit,... it got to almost $1M),.... granted things will slow now until closer to the end. Will they make any adjustments so that the stretch achievement does not slow down too much,... we'll see.

As far as what's in the stretches,.... nothing spectacular so far,... but the two characters per stretch were nice! I think once we get down the line,.. the abundance of stuff will turn this into an embarrassment of riches maybe even more so than MYTH was. To your comment of less stuff for more,.... it is a couple less minis (40 vs the 42 of MYTH) in the base box,... but there are more unique sculpts (24 vs 15 for MYTH),... and two separate games. The price point seems reasonable.

I'm thinking the SGs are really slow too. I looked at this again after a few days and I'm surprised there was only so few things unlocked.

Also,.... the MYTH stretches were just a steady 25k spread,.... the Recon ones have been mixed up quite a bit,.... so we'll have to see how this plays out.

so far,... the gaps have been:

25k, 20k, 20k, 15k, 25k, 25k, 50k

I recall, that when there was a similar gap in the MYTH goals,... the natives got restless in the comments,... and they ended up adding another one,.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sining wrote:
I'm thinking the SGs are really slow too. I looked at this again after a few days and I'm surprised there was only so few things unlocked.

again,.... this is all perspective: MYTH took 4 days to unlock 1 SG,... this will unlock 6 in the first 4 days. the gaps have not really been that different.

I'm really going to have to look into how 'tabletop MERCS' works, because while I was mildly interested, I'm now much less so after reading about how movement works...

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm really going to have to look into how 'tabletop MERCS' works, because while I was mildly interested, I'm now much less so after reading about how movement works...

it is a totally different animal,..... once you get you head around it; it is a lot of fun. You are really rewarded for good tactics.

It is so unlike most other TT games,.... there are no uber weapons, or skills for the most part,.... no wiz-bang abilities like in WM,.... you can't just sit and shoot like with some 40K armies.

If you camp,... you will lose,... it is about suppression, movement, etc...... about out maneuvering your opponent.

the two things that will get complaints are:

- Moving with cards
- Random activation sequence

I understand the issues that people have,.... but you can move less than a card length (I think that will be cleared up in the new rules) and you can use the card edge to measure too,... so there is no reason that you can't use a similar template or tape measure to move (just cut a stick to about 3 3/4" and use it for each Movement Point)

On the activation side,... the Bounding mechanic is specifically designed to address this,... and a few models have some special abilities that can change it as well.

Bounding is like giving your buddy cover,.... you wait for them and then you get extra movement (like asking for cover so you can dash across a gap). I think it works really well (but I am a big fan,... so take it for what it's worth)

I can tell that you're a MERCS SUPERFAN, so, no worries there!

Given that I like what I see so far, and that I'll be MORE than on emy way to a 'tabletop' MERCS army or two once this KS is done, it is *almost* a no-brainer to get the rulebook too...

 yamato wrote:
Also,.... the MYTH stretches were just a steady 25k spread,.... the Recon ones have been mixed up quite a bit,.... so we'll have to see how this plays out.

so far,... the gaps have been:

25k, 20k, 20k, 15k, 25k, 25k, 50k

I recall, that when there was a similar gap in the MYTH goals,... the natives got restless in the comments,... and they ended up adding another one,.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sining wrote:
I'm thinking the SGs are really slow too. I looked at this again after a few days and I'm surprised there was only so few things unlocked.

again,.... this is all perspective: MYTH took 4 days to unlock 1 SG,... this will unlock 6 in the first 4 days. the gaps have not really been that different.

Well, the first SG was 70k, but that is digressing. Your other points are very valid, except on the Level 1 SecFor tokens. Under the box contents, it says there are 11 Level 1 SecFor tokens in each game box. So no, these aren't just "extra" guys. They are the lowest level of SecFor, and I'm supposed to be happy with 6, when one box game thinks I could need as many as 11...

In response to Alph and Yamato's conversation:
Yes, if I go in for this, I think I'd get the rulebook/cards too, why not use these forces for tht TT game. Looks fun, just wish they'd let you swap out the dice game for some of the expansion boxes...

Incidentally, I've always found the movement system to be the most interesting part of MERCS. In a way it is kind of a "fog of war" mechanic that reduces the complete godlike control players have over their pieces, but it does it without clumsy information obfuscation (such as not allowing pre-measuring). Spending a full movement is basically a sprint for cover or at the very least trying to make good distance. Unlike most minis games where movement represents a cautious advance (that is more what snap-to-cover is for) this means you build up a bit of momentum when doing it, and because you aren't controlling your guy's leg muscles directly, it is possible you may pop the movement point and find that your only movment options shoot you past cover (though the snap to cover mechanic allows you to "correct" a bit and get to nearby stuff.

This makes control and positioning near cover quite important because it makes movement much more flexible. If you are stuck in the open with nothing to snap to, you need to book it to some kind of solid cover to get the freedom to make small, more cautious moves.

So manoeuvre and position are really important because the movement system needs to be gamed a bit in order for it not to screw you over.

What this ends up also doing is it makes the timescale of MERCS feel more compressed and frenetic. In most wargames, the timescale feels fairly leisurely with models making large, cautious advances and shooting actions representing whole rounds of fire. In MERCS it feels like you are playing a running gunfight that plays out in the space of a minute or two (maybe less) because movement has momentum, most models require some actual time to set up and fire (only some classes of model can hip fire) and overall turns just feel so cramped. It takes some getting used to, but the limitations end up leading play in a cool direction and give things a much different feel.

It is a very, very different animal than most small skirmish games.

That said... while I love the cards for movement and some range measurment, I hope they revise how shooting templates work because creating weird card amalgams for some of the firing diagrams is really annoying for 3D terrain (which I recommend, 2D mats just lose something). Basically, I hope Recon allows them to shuffle the more board game centred stuff to that side and injects a bit more traditional war game conceits over to MERCS proper (more support for 3D terrain and proper templates/firing diagrams mostly). Using the cards for everything is interesting, but the second more than one is required for a task they become unwieldy.

But the basic action economy is one of the most interesting I've seen in a while (and this is before getting in to how much I love the feel of the combat system). And of course, the army-creation system is one of the most elegant systems I've ever had the pleasure to play. It makes playing quick pick-up games with different force combinations and zero prep time really easy.

I will say that they may have won the award for "most intemperate reply" with this little number from the MYTH comments (people were upset that the MYTH crossover models required going in for Recon);

MERCS Miniatures 1 day ago

Too much bile here for me. I will only respond to the comment about Recon standing on its own....you mean the one that made 185k in two days (without a single whiff of Myth)? Come now. This is silly.

I don't want you to get Recon if you don't want it to play it. It happens to be a GREAT game. Whatever pressure you put on yourself to have everything has nothing to do with us. We are offering winks and nods to people who buy all our stuff.

And finally, the Trickster was a KS exclusive. Unless MERCS players joined they didn't get it.

In fairness, this fit of pique only lasted about a day until they reversed course completely and made a MYTH backer pledge.

Well, you don't really expect them to not want peoples money. I agree with their statement, but money overcame their viewpoint. Understandable, especially with the noticeable slow down after the blistering first day. However, I don't know how many total backers they are going to get with this one. This is a much different game than Myth, both in boardgame style and obviously genre.

Are the people who currently play Mercs getting in on this? Does having more figures for the TT do anything for you?

Hard to take that without the context of what was being said,.... But, yeah,... It was cool to offer the MYTH content pledge for those that thought they were trying to "force" them to buy something that they did not want.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
Well, you don't really expect them to not want peoples money. I agree with their statement, but money overcame their viewpoint. Understandable, especially with the noticeable slow down after the blistering first day. However, I don't know how many total backers they are going to get with this one. This is a much different game than Myth, both in boardgame style and obviously genre.

Are the people who currently play Mercs getting in on this? Does having more figures for the TT do anything for you?

Dunno.

I really liked the MYTH game-play demos, the simple play boards the player-character "card decks", the Darkness threat level. But I have enough fantasy dungeon crawlers to last me a while.

I look at MERCS Recon, the beta rules, the (horrible) game play videos, and it has none of that sort. The whole agent movement, the "frame", the "blood/action tracer", command pool, etc., all feels very clunky and not nearly as fluid and organic as MYTH.

TT is an add-on,but really I am a bit underwhelmed by the bits I've seen from the game.

I loved what I saw (and still see and hear) about MYTH gameplay, but was put off by the done-to-death-generic-theme. MERCS Recon has the theme I want, but none of the game-play elegance (as far as I can see) of MYTH.

Not sure how to square the two.

 yamato wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm really going to have to look into how 'tabletop MERCS' works, because while I was mildly interested, I'm now much less so after reading about how movement works...

it is a totally different animal,..... once you get you head around it; it is a lot of fun. You are really rewarded for good tactics.

It is so unlike most other TT games,.... there are no uber weapons, or skills for the most part,.... no wiz-bang abilities like in WM,.... you can't just sit and shoot like with some 40K armies.

If you camp,... you will lose,... it is about suppression, movement, etc...... about out maneuvering your opponent.

the two things that will get complaints are:

- Moving with cards
- Random activation sequence

I understand the issues that people have,.... but you can move less than a card length (I think that will be cleared up in the new rules) and you can use the card edge to measure too,... so there is no reason that you can't use a similar template or tape measure to move (just cut a stick to about 3 3/4" and use it for each Movement Point)

On the activation side,... the Bounding mechanic is specifically designed to address this,... and a few models have some special abilities that can change it as well.

Bounding is like giving your buddy cover,.... you wait for them and then you get extra movement (like asking for cover so you can dash across a gap). I think it works really well (but I am a big fan,... so take it for what it's worth)

And yet, randomized initiative is something you can mitigate with "hold" orders, so it is a tactical choice, not something they failed to consider.

I view it more as a fix to the inherit issues this system has.

Not a bad decision by itself, but it could work better.

Yippie ki yay MFers!

Roy McClane added to add-ons



I'm personally not to fired up about these types of things, so I'm glad that these have been as-ons instead of stretch goals.

Are they supporting the assault on the building or working against the mercs invading?

Not sure,... They said that there are special rules for them,..

I'd imagine that if you play it right that they would help you,... But don't hit them with a reserve action, or with collateral damage,..... Then McClane is coming for you

Well, they are both "policy officers", e.g. security, would they not?

Why would McClane help the armed-to-the-teeth-para-military-gangsters breaking in? Those are the guys he smokes? No?