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 PsychoticStorm wrote:
To be honest I am not so hot on their tebletop skirmish, but the 200$ deal is quite a good one, although the novel is as meh as it can ever be and it seems to be part one only too, I would rather had the money spend on something else.

I will have to add on my criticism on the models beyond the clothing which is soft, the extra long and bendy upper part of the legs, I would really like to see these two fixed, then the models would be good, I think.

Considering how deep a discount $200 will ultimately be for every factions V2.0 cards, in addition to the huge V2 rules and campaign book... It really is as it the novel and dice game are sort of just freebies. I could do without either as well, but currently $200 is great, and by campaign end, it will probably be downright insane if Myth was any indication.

Love the skirmish game though, so i'm a touch biased. It has that quality X-wing does of resembling my beloved tabletop mini-gaming hobby, but being just that bit simpler so as to be less intimidating to less hardcore gamers.

That is almost irrelevant, the 200$ is a good value, but their only sample of story I have read, did not had me thrilled, the cost of printing a book is always high and the fact it is part one means its not even a complete product.

I would rather see the resources for it been redirected to something else.

The tabletop game, to be perfectly honest the card system, does not have me thrilled among other small things.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
the cost of printing a book is always high

Paperbacks of this type are not really that expensive to produce.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
and the fact it is part one means its not even a complete product.

Like the Horus Heresy series? Or Gaunt's Ghosts? Or Star Trek? Or Star Wars? Or Dragonlance? Or A Song of Fire and Ice? Or His Dark Materials? ect ect

More expensive than card tiles, stat cards a model, some scenery or extra counters, in any case something related to the actual game, or the mercs V2.

Most of the above novels you mentioned are autonomous self concluded works that carry over from the previous one, but my point would be that if it is thrown in the kickstarter and their writing is not really established, it would be better to be at least self contained.

If anyone at the $200 level doesn't want the novel, I'll pay you $6 to ship it to me after the KS. I'm not in at $200, so otherwise I'll just add $10 for it. But, if you want that stinkin' useless dead tree book out of your house and a shiny new $6 in your PayPal account, I'll be happy to help.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
More expensive than card tiles, stat cards a model, some scenery or extra counters, in any case something related to the actual game, or the mercs V2.

Most of the above novels you mentioned are autonomous self concluded works that carry over from the previous one, but my point would be that if it is thrown in the kickstarter and their writing is not really established, it would be better to be at least self contained.

I think they likely need to order a pretty large number to get these printed for a reasonable price,..... while there has been a lot of noise requesting the fiction,. there is likely not enough to support sales on it's own to justify such a printing,....

So this my be a vehicle to assist them is getting this done. I don't fault them for that.

Hmmmm.
Two foot square board? Eight boxes per side?
Is it just me or is this EXACTLY perfect for Deadzone terrain?

MERCS assault the Shensig Habtainers!

 yamato wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
More expensive than card tiles, stat cards a model, some scenery or extra counters, in any case something related to the actual game, or the mercs V2.

Most of the above novels you mentioned are autonomous self concluded works that carry over from the previous one, but my point would be that if it is thrown in the kickstarter and their writing is not really established, it would be better to be at least self contained.

I think they likely need to order a pretty large number to get these printed for a reasonable price,..... while there has been a lot of noise requesting the fiction,. there is likely not enough to support sales on it's own to justify such a printing,....

So this my be a vehicle to assist them is getting this done. I don't fault them for that.

These are my assumptions too, but an ebook or pdf would serve this purpose too cheaper and more efficient.

Possibly a dumb question, but will the two boxes contain models for the security forces once they hit retail, or will they have to be purchased separately? Have they mentioned if any of the stretch goals will be true upgrades to the box, a la Kingdom Death?

they have not said,..... but in MYTH this did not happen,.... so until they say otherwise; I would think that the Security Forces 1 and the Employees will remain as cardboard counters and that the opposing MERCS force will have to stand in for the Security forces 4 for the base retail version of the game.

If this changes during the campaign; I'll post about it here.

This didn't happen with Myth? I am surprised.

4th stretch hit,.... new stretches revealed:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
This didn't happen with Myth? I am surprised.

nope,..... the retail version of the game is pretty much as originally called out when the KS launched.

That's pretty damned despicable, enough that I'm rethinking my interest in the game. In fact that's the worst thing I've ever heard of in regards to kickstarters barring the flat-out fraudulent ones. Myth made just shy of $1million and NONE of those stretch goals got applied to the base retail versions?! I can't think of any other major board/minis hybrid game KS that didn't improve the base retail set through the KS and stretch goals. That's the freaking POINT!

I've defended minis companies, even "major" minis companies, doing kickstarters in the past because I think it's a wonderful system for bringing a better product to market. Freebies and masisve discounts are cool, and they bring in the money, surely, but I just want to be able to see something on the shelf at my FLGS in a year that I know I helped make aweomer, and if a friend sees my awesome KS setup I want there to be something still interesting for them to buy. People complained when Sedition Wars had a stretch goal improving the cards to linen, but that's the exact kind of thing I love MOST about kickstarters, having an active hand in improving the final product and maybe having a small say in how it unfolds. Getting a better game out than would have existed through traditional meamns. To hear that about Myth is pretty disheartening, actually

 Rhelyk wrote:
That's pretty damned despicable, enough that I'm rethinking my interest in the game. In fact that's the worst thing I've ever heard of in regards to kickstarters barring the flat-out fraudulent ones. Myth made just shy of $1million and NONE of those stretch goals got applied to the base retail versions?! I can't think of any other major board/minis hybrid game KS that didn't improve the base retail set through the KS and stretch goals. That's the freaking POINT!

I've defended minis companies, even "major" minis companies, doing kickstarters in the past because I think it's a wonderful system for bringing a better product to market. Freebies and masisve discounts are cool, and they bring in the money, surely, but I just want to be able to see something on the shelf at my FLGS in a year that I know I helped make aweomer, and if a friend sees my awesome KS setup I want there to be something still interesting for them to buy. People complained when Sedition Wars had a stretch goal improving the cards to linen, but that's the exact kind of thing I love MOST about kickstarters, having an active hand in improving the final product and maybe having a small say in how it unfolds. Getting a better game out than would have existed through traditional meamns. To hear that about Myth is pretty disheartening, actually

I think you'd be in the minority.

I know I would be, most people just want the free crap, but my point remains that the KS are ostensibly to bring new or better products to bear, and if you make a million $^&* dollars you could at least throw some of that towards making the game better for the people that missed the KS and are paying you full retail amount for it.

 Rhelyk wrote:
I know I would be, most people just want the free crap, but my point remains that the KS are ostensibly to bring new or better products to bear, and if you make a million $^&* dollars you could at least throw some of that towards making the game better for the people that missed the KS and are paying you full retail amount for it.

Why?

Those people that missed the KS are buying at retail and get the product when they pay for it. KS backers are forking over their money early so the game can be produced at all.

Not every KS is the same,.... some do nothing but improve what is in the base box,.....

Im sure where the MYTH KS got to allowed them to make nicer boards and linen cards,...... and they did just that.

But that KS also provided gobs of retail product that could not and would not have existed otherwise. Yeah, the base box did not change, but they were able to add four more races of baddies with bosses as well as lots of content that will be available in the first year to market. So there is a benefit to the retail customer from all the ravenous kickstater pledgies. It would have taken years of successful base game sales for them to be able to dream of being able to produce half of that stuff.

Still not upgrading your basic package to a more appealing product is a missed opportunity.

A vastly missed one, I think I will say the same for the models here in the end....

Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for

KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...

Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive

It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If anyone at the $200 level doesn't want the novel, I'll pay you $6 to ship it to me after the KS. I'm not in at $200, so otherwise I'll just add $10 for it. But, if you want that stinkin' useless dead tree book out of your house and a shiny new $6 in your PayPal account, I'll be happy to help.

I'm in at the 120 level right now, but may up to the 200 level. If I do, we can work a deal on the book.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for

KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...

Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive

It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow

This,..... Exactly this. With MYTH they gave it the MSRP of 89.99 and they have stuck to it,.... This is why you can get it from cool stuff for $60.

If the MSRP changed to $150 with more stuff or better stuff in the box; what would that have done to the retail attractiveness to the impulse buyer either online or at your FLGS?

I'll agree that I hope that some more minis make it into the recon base boxes,.... But right now, each box has 12 unique sculpts (that's 24 total),.... MYTH has only 14 sculpts in the base box. This is where the big setup costs are in the game.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for

KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...

Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive

It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow

Orlando, I would agree with you, if they were producing the boxed game, and trying to recoup their costs still, as all companies do in the open market.

However, with KS, all the backers have already paid all the mold costs, and so the company has $0 that it needs to recoup for that. So, if we extrapolate that a standard company sells its game to retail for 50% of its retail cost, then all of these KS projects reduce the production costs of that 50% down closer to 10-15%, versus 20-35%, as there are no loans to repay. So really, KS and all the backers are expanding the profit margin for these companies, as their costs are reduced to packaging, boards, rulebook and pennies on the dollar for plastic figures.

Yet then these companies throw up stretch goals of $50k for a single plastic figure, and wonder why they get people that are upset. Especially so early in a KS campaign, as Recon is. Quite humorous. After the $70k initial stretch goal. I guess they're banking on a lot of loyalty backing on this one.

 yamato wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for

KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...

Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive

It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow

This,..... Exactly this. With MYTH they gave it the MSRP of 89.99 and they have stuck to it,.... This is why you can get it from cool stuff for $60.

If the MSRP changed to $150 with more stuff or better stuff in the box; what would that have done to the retail attractiveness to the impulse buyer either online or at your FLGS?

I'll agree that I hope that some more minis make it into the recon base boxes,.... But right now, each box has 12 unique sculpts (that's 24 total),.... MYTH has only 14 sculpts in the base box. This is where the big setup costs are in the game.

Plus, a bunch of those minis are pricey ones from another game, so if you have friends playing or interested in the skirmish game, you're an $8.00 or less deck of cards away from joining them in that game too.

I have a few very enthusiastic local Mercs players, so you'd better believe these games come inherently with loads of added value built in. Doesn't hurt that while games like Infinity or Malifaux are carving out their niche in some part because of their models aesthetic appeal (and they're good games too mind you), Mercs is a hell of a budding system as well, with the V2.0 rules looking to really make it something special.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for

KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...

Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive

It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow

Orlando, I would agree with you, if they were producing the boxed game, and trying to recoup their costs still, as all companies do in the open market.

However, with KS, all the backers have already paid all the mold costs, and so the company has $0 that it needs to recoup for that. So, if we extrapolate that a standard company sells its game to retail for 50% of its retail cost, then all of these KS projects reduce the production costs of that 50% down closer to 10-15%, versus 20-35%, as there are no loans to repay. So really, KS and all the backers are expanding the profit margin for these companies, as their costs are reduced to packaging, boards, rulebook and pennies on the dollar for plastic figures.

Yet then these companies throw up stretch goals of $50k for a single plastic figure, and wonder why they get people that are upset. Especially so early in a KS campaign, as Recon is. Quite humorous. After the $70k initial stretch goal. I guess they're banking on a lot of loyalty backing on this one.

I will have to agree here there is little reason on why the kickstarter savings were not passed in the product, especially since it would be indifferent to the kickstarter backers but would make the product more attractive to future buyers.

 CptJake wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If anyone at the $200 level doesn't want the novel, I'll pay you $6 to ship it to me after the KS. I'm not in at $200, so otherwise I'll just add $10 for it. But, if you want that stinkin' useless dead tree book out of your house and a shiny new $6 in your PayPal account, I'll be happy to help.

I'm in at the 120 level right now, but may up to the 200 level. If I do, we can work a deal on the book.

Cool. Please keep me posted.

To address the 'pass on the add ons at retail' complaints. That would still change the cost and retail price point of the game. Just because your initial outlay (sculptors, molds) is covered doesn't mean there's 'no cost' to that additional content for the company.
I see them as being responsible with their product. They knew what they wanted to produce, rewarded the backers that allowed that to happen and created additional content that would have been years away or impossible for retail customers to buy.

Going to jump in here at the new 'Myth backer' level and see what happens. Not super excited about the Mercs game ATM.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Mercs is a hell of a budding system as well, with the V2.0 rules looking to really make it something special.

I didn't even know they were doing a V2 of the rules, so out of curiosity, what is going to make it "something special?"

I'd like to know too - it might be the difference between staying at the $120 level or jumping up to the $200 level.

I've already got the right terrain via INFINITY and DEADZONE...

I was at the $200 level, but had to pull my pledge down to the $120 level when I found out the Conflict thing was a standalone dice game. I can always look at revising it back up later, of course.

Phew!

NOW this is a real Kickstarter!