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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 01:51:40
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Trained healthcare experts might know what is best.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 05:21:52
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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whembly wrote:
That tells me that you didn't watch that youtube video.
I'm done here.
I did, several times. But I never heard Gruber use that phrase.
Prestor Jon wrote:
In the first Gruber youtube video posted Gruber clearly states that lack of transparency helps Congress pass legislation and that lack of transparency can also be called "the stupidity of the American public" he says it during the 30-37 second mark of the video.
No, Gruber never equates the absence of transparency with "...the stupidity of the American voter...". He states the latter may have been critical to the passage of the bill, but that's it.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/11 05:39:32
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 14:20:45
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Reality check - you're trying to have an honest discussion with someone who believes Obama was not lying when he said "If you like your plan you can keep it" and "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" after the bill was written and made these two statements false.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 14:54:54
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
In the first Gruber youtube video posted Gruber clearly states that lack of transparency helps Congress pass legislation and that lack of transparency can also be called "the stupidity of the American public" he says it during the 30-37 second mark of the video.
No, Gruber never equates the absence of transparency with "...the stupidity of the American voter...". He states the latter may have been critical to the passage of the bill, but that's it.
Here are Gruber's exact words, verbatim:
"lack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical in getting it passed"
Gruber equates lack of transparency in the presentation of legislation to the stupidity of the American voter, to him they are synoonymous. Obsfuscating the content of legislation means keeping the electorate stupid.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 14:59:36
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Reality check - you're trying to have an honest discussion with someone who believes Obama was not lying when he said "If you like your plan you can keep it" and "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" after the bill was written and made these two statements false.
The bill was not finalized until early 2010, and didn't pass until March of that year. The majority of the "If you like your plan you can keep it." quotes are from 2009, same for "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.". I found one from January of 2010, but 2 months is a long time in politics.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:09:14
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Reality check - you're trying to have an honest discussion with someone who believes Obama was not lying when he said "If you like your plan you can keep it" and "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" after the bill was written and made these two statements false.
The bill was not finalized until early 2010, and didn't pass until March of that year. The majority of the "If you like your plan you can keep it." quotes are from 2009, same for "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.". I found one from January of 2010, but 2 months is a long time in politics.
How does that make any difference? Obama went out and campaigned in person and on national televison and radio promoting the ACA and making the claim repeatedly that if it passed people could keep their plans and their doctors if they choose. He then signed into law a version of the ACA that allowed people to do neither. Either Obama was too irresponsible and incompetent to know what the bill he was signing into law actually said or he knew that the ACA didn't do what he had told people it would do and was too irresponsible, incompetent or cowardly to tell the American people the truth before he signed it into law. Unless your position is that POTUS doesn't have any obligation to be honest with the American people and/or that POTUS has no obligation to know what's in the bills that are signed into law I don't see how you could possibly be ok with what Obama did.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:12:38
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Prestor Jon wrote:
Gruber equates lack of transparency in the presentation of legislation to the stupidity of the American voter, to him they are synoonymous. Obsfuscating the content of legislation means keeping the electorate stupid.
No he doesn't. At worst he is making a comment about taking advantage of the stupidity of the American voter, which has nothing to do with equation or synonymy.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:23:02
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote:Prestor Jon wrote:
Gruber equates lack of transparency in the presentation of legislation to the stupidity of the American voter, to him they are synoonymous. Obsfuscating the content of legislation means keeping the electorate stupid.
No he doesn't. At worst he is making a comment about taking advantage of the stupidity of the American voter, which has nothing to do with equation or synonymy.
Listen to what he said, I even typed it out for you verbatim, here I'll do it again:
"lack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical in getting it passed"
When Gruber states "call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever" what does he mean by "it" because I can't see how you can read that statement and not have it be clear that the "it" refers to the lack of transparency. He is clearly saying that you can also call a lack of transparency the stupidity of the American voter.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:27:03
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Prestor Jon wrote:
How does that make any difference? Obama went out and campaigned in person and on national televison and radio promoting the ACA and making the claim repeatedly that if it passed people could keep their plans and their doctors if they choose. He then signed into law a version of the ACA that allowed people to do neither.
PPACA went through many revisions during the legislative process, so what someone said in the year before its passage has no necessary bearing on the content of the final law. As such, calling that person a liar is a stretch at best.
Prestor Jon wrote:
Either Obama was too irresponsible and incompetent to know what the bill he was signing into law actually said or he knew that the ACA didn't do what he had told people it would do and was too irresponsible, incompetent or cowardly to tell the American people the truth before he signed it into law.
False choice. Obama may well have thought the bill he was signing into law was the best of a series of bad options, while also expecting the American people to have paid attention to a very high profile piece of legislation.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:33:49
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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With all that spinning dogma, you may start having nausea.
Here's some OTC to help:
Kaopectate
Pepto-Bismol
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:33:56
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Prestor Jon wrote:
When Gruber states "call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever" what does he mean by "it" because I can't see how you can read that statement and not have it be clear that the "it" refers to the lack of transparency. He is clearly saying that you can also call a lack of transparency the stupidity of the American voter.
I suspect "it" refers to whatever the initial topic of conversation was. Something which was conveniently omitted.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:43:25
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote:Prestor Jon wrote:
When Gruber states "call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever" what does he mean by "it" because I can't see how you can read that statement and not have it be clear that the "it" refers to the lack of transparency. He is clearly saying that you can also call a lack of transparency the stupidity of the American voter.
I suspect "it" refers to whatever the initial topic of conversation was. Something which was conveniently omitted.
If you watch the youtube video by the time Gruber makes the statement I've quoted verbatim for you twice now, he is clearly speaking about lack of transparency in the presentation of the ACA.
Is your position that POTUS, be it Obama or anyone past or future in the office, should feel no obligation or responsibility whatsoever to clearly inform the American people about the content of a bill before signing it into law? It appears that your position is that politicians should do whatever they like in regards to passing legislation, make no effort to properly inform the electorate they represent and that the onus of knowing what is going on legislatively in Congress is completely on the American people.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:50:09
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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whembly wrote: government entities DON'T know what's best for MY healthcare.
Simple as that.
Don't worry. I'm sure huge Healthcare companies do though amirite?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 15:51:13
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 15:57:44
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Prestor Jon wrote:
If you watch the youtube video by the time Gruber makes the statement I've quoted verbatim for you twice now, he is clearly speaking about lack of transparency in the presentation of the ACA.
I've watched the video, a few times, and read your transcriptions. I simply disagree for the reasons I have repeatedly mentioned.
Prestor Jon wrote:
Is your position that POTUS, be it Obama or anyone past or future in the office, should feel no obligation or responsibility whatsoever to clearly inform the American people about the content of a bill before signing it into law?
No. And Presidents generally do inform the American people regarding the content of a bill they are about to sign. The American people don't usually pay attention, but that's on them.
Prestor Jon wrote:
It appears that your position is that politicians should do whatever they like in regards to passing legislation, make no effort to properly inform the electorate they represent and that the onus of knowing what is going on legislatively in Congress is completely on the American people.
Not completely, though it is an American tradition to pawn off the failings of the populace on to politicians.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 15:57:56
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:01:36
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Easy E wrote: whembly wrote: government entities DON'T know what's best for MY healthcare.
Simple as that.
Don't worry. I'm sure huge Healthcare companies do though amirite?
Should people not take medicine because it's produced by big Pharma, clearly companies that only exist to make huge profits? Should people not go to hospitals or doctors in insurance networks because clearly those businesses just want to soak us for profits too? Do politicans know how to run hospitals better than the doctors and administrators who are currently running them? Do politicians know better than doctors and insurance companies who to properly bill for medical services?
Should people in the industry who have a proven record of successful experience in their field not play a role in determining the best way for the govt to regulate that industry? Should we just trust the politicians to arbitrarily set parameters on industries they have zero experience in? If we want politicians to make good informed decisions regarding policies and regulations from whom should they be receiving their advice?
Big Govt is a Big Business and Big Business has always steered Big Govt.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:04:20
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Easy E wrote: whembly wrote: government entities DON'T know what's best for MY healthcare.
Simple as that.
Don't worry. I'm sure huge Healthcare companies do though amirite?
Better than the Government... yes.
We have allowed the bureaucrats and apparatchiks to issue medical pricing from their ivory towers for many years now...
All leading to the irrationally priced disaster we know as the U.S. health care system.
The high price of health care represents no failure of the free market, but rather an absence of market discipline.
'Tis why, the first, simplistic goal to reform this industry is to provide transparent pricing at all stages. From there... true reform can only be achieved.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:06:04
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
Is your position that POTUS, be it Obama or anyone past or future in the office, should feel no obligation or responsibility whatsoever to clearly inform the American people about the content of a bill before signing it into law?
No. And Presidents generally do inform the American people regarding the content of a bill they are about to sign. The American people don't usually pay attention, but that's on them.
When did Obama go on the campaign trail and on televison and radio to tell the American people what was in the bill he actually signed? He did plenty of public campaigning for the bill that wasn't what he signed. Did he not owe it to the American people to clarify the differences in what he first claimed would be in the bill and what was in the final version?
dogma wrote:Prestor Jon wrote:
It appears that your position is that politicians should do whatever they like in regards to passing legislation, make no effort to properly inform the electorate they represent and that the onus of knowing what is going on legislatively in Congress is completely on the American people.
Not completely, though it is an American tradition to pawn off the failings of the populace on to politicians.
Do the politicians not have failings? Is it your opinion that politicians have the moral right to decide what is best for the people without ever consulting with the people they represent or explaining their actions to them?
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:15:40
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Prestor Jon wrote: Is it your opinion that politicians have the moral right to decide what is best for the people without ever consulting with the people they represent or explaining their actions to them?
I don't know about the morality, but it's pretty inarguable that in fact our system of government is set up in a way that in fact actual legislating is delegated to representatives to whom we trust to serve our best interests, and for which we either reward or punish them at the polls with how well we decided they have served those interests, or at least legislated as they promised they would. Otherwise everything would be a ballot measure, and would inevitably lead to something the founders pretty explicitly feared - the tyranny of the majority.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:19:58
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Deranged Necron Destroyer
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Prestor Jon wrote:Is it your opinion that politicians have the moral right to decide what is best for the people without ever consulting with the people they represent or explaining their actions to them?
It seems you do not understand what a republic is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 16:22:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:23:20
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Prestor Jon wrote:
When did Obama go on the campaign trail and on televison and radio to tell the American people what was in the bill he actually signed? He did plenty of public campaigning for the bill that wasn't what he signed. Did he not owe it to the American people to clarify the differences in what he first claimed would be in the bill and what was in the final version?
No, anyone that wasn't already engaged by the content of PPACA wouldn't have cared.
dogma wrote:
Do the politicians not have failings? Is it your opinion that politicians have the moral right to decide what is best for the people without ever consulting with the people they represent or explaining their actions to them?
Politicians already do that, its called campaigning within a representative democracy.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 16:33:41
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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It's the fact that Dr. Gruber thinks it’s OK to lie to American voters when his allies are in power to enact policies that he wants... but the voters wouldn’t. He then says American voters are “stupid” both for not agreeing with his value choices and for not figuring out the deception.
I think this tactic is repulsive and unethical in a representative democracy.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 17:23:42
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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whembly wrote:It's the fact that Dr. Gruber thinks it’s OK to lie to American voters when his allies are in power to enact policies that he wants... but the voters wouldn’t.
The last few pages have centered on whether or not Gruber lied, so proceeding from the assumption that he did ignores the matter at hand.
whembly wrote:
He then says American voters are “stupid” both for not agreeing with his value choices and for not figuring out the deception.
When does he say that American voters are stupid for not agreeing with his value choices? I mean, I can see the deception argument (though I don't agree with it) but "value choices"?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 17:24:11
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 18:32:33
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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whembly wrote: Easy E wrote: whembly wrote: government entities DON'T know what's best for MY healthcare.
Simple as that.
Don't worry. I'm sure huge Healthcare companies do though amirite?
Better than the Government... yes.
We have allowed the bureaucrats and apparatchiks to issue medical pricing from their ivory towers for many years now...
All leading to the irrationally priced disaster we know as the U.S. health care system.
The high price of health care represents no failure of the free market, but rather an absence of market discipline.
'Tis why, the first, simplistic goal to reform this industry is to provide transparent pricing at all stages. From there... true reform can only be achieved.
So, how is that all Governments fault and not the Companies that "run" the market for Healthcare again? How have they proved that they can handle it again?
However, I do completely and 100% agree with the transparent pricing point. That is par tof the reason why Consumer Directed Healthplans such as HRA and HSA are a huge joke to me. The idea was consumers putting their own money on the line would find the best deal. Too bad the actual pricing is locked under NDAs and Business Secrets legislation so the consumer will hav eno idea what the final cost will be.
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Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 19:37:34
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Easy E wrote: whembly wrote: Easy E wrote: whembly wrote: government entities DON'T know what's best for MY healthcare.
Simple as that.
Don't worry. I'm sure huge Healthcare companies do though amirite?
Better than the Government... yes.
We have allowed the bureaucrats and apparatchiks to issue medical pricing from their ivory towers for many years now...
All leading to the irrationally priced disaster we know as the U.S. health care system.
The high price of health care represents no failure of the free market, but rather an absence of market discipline.
'Tis why, the first, simplistic goal to reform this industry is to provide transparent pricing at all stages. From there... true reform can only be achieved.
So, how is that all Governments fault and not the Companies that "run" the market for Healthcare again? How have they proved that they can handle it again?
It's mostly government's fault as it dictates the environment.
Don't be surprise that in the next few years, Hospital/Healthcare entities band together in offering their own insurance, simply to cut out the middleman (3rd party insurance / government). Huge savings can be realized in that environment.
Before that can happen, it needs to be "state boundary" agnostic so that the risk pools are diversified enough.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 19:50:26
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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whembly wrote:
Don't be surprise that in the next few years, Hospital/Healthcare entities band together in offering their own insurance, simply to cut out the middleman (3rd party insurance / government). Huge savings can be realized in that environment.
Hospitals and healthcare entities are not comparable, and the latter already contracted with insurance companies by way of HMOs and PPOs prior to PPACA.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 20:51:42
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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RivenSkull wrote:Prestor Jon wrote:Is it your opinion that politicians have the moral right to decide what is best for the people without ever consulting with the people they represent or explaining their actions to them?
It seems you do not understand what a republic is.
I know full well how our representative republic works. The fact that we send representatives to DC to govern on our behalf is precisely why they are obligated to tell us what they are doing. We don't elect them so that they can ignore us for 2 or 6 years until they're up for re-election. They vote Yea or Nay on my behalf, I don't get to tell them how to vote but they do have a responsibility to publicize the votes they cast and the content of the bills they vote on. Republics need transparency to work, people need to know what's going on in their government if they are to determine if their representatives are governing well. Lying to constituents, obfuscating the truth and keeping the content of legislation a secret has no place in our system of government. Where in the constitution do you find anything that suggests that the people are supposed to be kept ignorant of the actions of their government?
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 21:13:07
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Prestor Jon wrote: We don't elect them so that they can ignore us for 2 or 6 years until they're up for re-election.
Yes we do. In fact that is why elections are years apart; no one wants to be bothered.
whembly wrote:
They vote Yea or Nay on my behalf, I don't get to tell them how to vote but they do have a responsibility to publicize the votes they cast and the content of the bills they vote on.
Politicians do publicize the votes they cast (this is what a voting record is), and the content of the bills they approve of.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 21:17:22
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 21:15:41
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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dogma wrote: whembly wrote:
Don't be surprise that in the next few years, Hospital/Healthcare entities band together in offering their own insurance, simply to cut out the middleman (3rd party insurance / government). Huge savings can be realized in that environment.
Hospitals and healthcare entities are not comparable, and the latter already contracted with insurance companies by way of HMOs and PPOs prior to PPACA.
Stop. That's not what I was saying.
Read this.
There are rumblings within the Hospital/Healthcare industry (ie, actual hospitals, Dr offices, ancillary services, etc...) to form a collective group to participate in offering their own "insurance-type" program.
So, instead of paying out to Blue Cross/Blue Shields or United Healthcare... you'd pay directly to something like the Mayo Clinic Health System and use their facilities.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 21:19:44
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote:Prestor Jon wrote: We don't elect them so that they can ignore us for 2 or 6 years until they're up for re-election.
Yes we do. In fact that is why elections are years apart; no one wants to be bothered.
whembly wrote:
They vote Yea or Nay on my behalf, I don't get to tell them how to vote but they do have a responsibility to publicize the votes they cast and the content of the bills they vote on.
Politicians do publicize the votes they cast, and the content of the bills they approve.
You can choose to ignore your politicians if you want to but an informed electorate cannot be ignorant of the process of governing.
Politicians also lie and obfuscate the votes they cast and the content of the bills they approve.
Politicians have a responsibility to not be ignorant of the subject matter the bills they vote on concern, accurately represent the content of the bills they propose and vote on to their constituents, know the content of the bills they vote on and vote in accordance with the best interests of their constituents.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/11 21:24:29
Subject: Re:US Midterm elections and the general political consequences
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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You used hospitals and healthcare organizations interchangeably. They are not interchangeable. Indeed you subsequent argument necessitates as much.
whembly wrote:
Read this.
There are rumblings within the Hospital/Healthcare industry (ie, actual hospitals, Dr offices, ancillary services, etc...) to form a collective group to participate in offering their own "insurance-type" program.
So, instead of paying out to Blue Cross/Blue Shields or United Healthcare... you'd pay directly to something like the Mayo Clinic Health System and use their facilities.
Like existential HMOs and PPOs?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 21:26:00
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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