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List A)




List B)



Well, as you can see, the lists are quite similar. I've been using most of these units for a while now and they haven't disappointed, but I recently added the Hunter to my collection and did some alterations accordingly. I've got my sights on the first one, because I like Nightspinners and the extra WRJ squad is better than 5 DA as troops. Although the first one suffers a little more against flyers, it is better at horde control, so it all depends. Neither the Serpent(yes, I know it theoretically can, but 2 Serpents aren't enough to down a Drake, usually) nor the Spinner will kill Heldrakes and those are the only flyers that really hurt my army and hurt it bad. That's why the Hunter is here.

What do you think? I spent a lot of time tinkering with these lists and have seen everything perform admirably except the Hunter, which I just recently acquired anyway. If you have any advice on how to shift points around, I'm open to suggestions about my troops in particular, the FA and HS options I'd definitely like to keep as they are, as they work really well for me.

Lists look good, I like #2 a tad bit better

Both lists look just fine. I think the 1st list is a bit better, but both are very solid.

A couple of minor tweaks: In the 1st list, I would drop the shuricannon from the nightspinner in favor of a ghostwalk matrix. With the range of the gun, you want to avoid being close enough to use the cannon, as it likely means assault/close range AT guns. The matrix allows you to shuffle in cover for a very nice save thanks to holo fields, and park in/behind things as needed.

In both lists, if you drop the vectored engines you can make your hunter an exarch. The extra ballistic skill is well worth it when you absolutely must have a flier shot dead. This also helps with ground armor targets, and in case you need to shoot at ground targets.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Interesting advice from the above poster. Are you trying to tell me I don't have enough anti-air in my lists?

 Dr. Serling wrote:
A couple of minor tweaks: In the 1st list, I would drop the shuricannon from the nightspinner in favor of a ghostwalk matrix. With the range of the gun, you want to avoid being close enough to use the cannon, as it likely means assault/close range AT guns. The matrix allows you to shuffle in cover for a very nice save thanks to holo fields, and park in/behind things as needed.

I'll give either of them a go., Once my Spears and the Knight are midfield, the rest of the army moves forward to support them. In this respect, the Shuriken Cannon is excellent at putting some extra wounds on an infantry squad, in addition to the torrent flamer. They compliment each other very well, as the flamer has the same threat-range as the Cannon and I've often found that the main gun often leaves 1 or 2 models alive, which can be annoying.

If I dropped Vectored, I could get both the Matrix and the Cannon, but running guardians, I found that they often lack maneuverability when disembarking. This way, I almost turn them into Avengers, giving them 6" extra range from the length of the Serpent.

In both lists, if you drop the vectored engines you can make your hunter an exarch. The extra ballistic skill is well worth it when you absolutely must have a flier shot dead. This also helps with ground armor targets, and in case you need to shoot at ground targets.

I agree, and I did consider that, but there are two reasons why I think the Exarch isn't necessary. First is of course Guide. if I really need a flyer dead, I'll Guide my Hunter. Second is that a Heldrake is 170 points. If I drop one with my Hunter, it paid it's points back. Exarch however costs 180 points, so if it dies in the subsequent turn, it is at a greater cost to my army. That's why I deemed it smarter to keep it cheap, if you can call it that.

I disagree with your logic, listing 2 examples lets pretend your playing as chaos and the enemy is eldar with your list.

1) chaos marine squad (10) armed with boltguns and other useless upgrades (plasma/flamer/VotLW) =175pts, they cannot harm a big majority of the eldar.

2) a Helldrake with baleflamer costs 175pts, it can vector strike for S7 AP3 d3+1 attacks, and then has a torrent flamer, you smile because you know it can AND will kill anything that you can reach.

Which one do you think would hurt more to lose while they still cost the same amount of points? And if anything upgrades to exarch frees your farseer from spending a Wc on guide for him, and most importantly it allows your seer to be more then 24" away.

I don't see where you're going with this. I'm just measuring the usefulness of a near 200-point AV10 flyer. Especially since I'd have to drop some useful upgrades to get it.

What would you drop to get it?

Easy, the shurkin cannons drom the 3 man objective grabbers.

Could do that, yes. But those earn their points back every game. I'm not convinced the Exarch would do the same.

 Araenion wrote:

They compliment each other very well, as the flamer has the same threat-range as the Cannon and I've often found that the main gun often leaves 1 or 2 models alive, which can be annoying.

Derp. I totally forgot about the torrent! Hm...maybe I need to put a cannon on my nightspinner...

You'll (probably) not be disappointed!

What would you take out for the Hunter Exarch? I've played with Guardians quite a bit, and without Vectored, they're so hard to maneuver after disembarking.

I think I'd rather go with the above suggestion about dropping the Shuriken Cannons from WRJ.

What do you think? Is it really worth it?