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I'm trying to make sure I am reading this new book correctly. Most Dwarf units now have the shieldwall special room, which is quite nice. It let's you make a 5+ parry save, if the model is allowed to make one. My question is this, Hammerers have the ability to purchase a shield, which would give 4+ against shooting attacks, but not change their close combat attacks since they have great weapons. But GW put the shieldwall rule in their profile. When would they ever be allowed to make a parry save in the first place?

Consistency across Dwarf models or futureproofing in case new editions allow the option of choosing which weapon (the alternative is that GW is daft, but as they didnt put shieldwall on a Gyrocopter Im guessing they arent...)

My guess is that in ninth you will not be required to give up your shield in favor of a special melee weapon and get to choose. If so it will make things like shield hammerers and temple guard more versatile.

As above it is either for a sense of completion (it would be weird if they were the only iinfantry not to get a version of the rule). Or future proofing this doesn't mean 9th will allow choosing weapons but that at the moment they haven't decided that it won't. Where as 1+ looks likely to stay as the armour save limit for some time.

It's interesting to note as well that some units that have access to shields don't get the Shieldwall rule (I remember that the Rangers don't, the Engineers too)

Also, there are spells which can destroy greatweapons, aren't there? If so, that's a use for shieldwall right there.

I don't know of any spell destroying regular weapons, but I might be missing something

I might be mistaken, as well. I haven't played much 8th edition.

No you do not get the parry benefit as you are required to use your Great weapons. As far as I know, they just slapped it on all the dwarfs.

A lot of folks are reading into this, thinking that its a nod to something the design crew knows is coming up in 9th. While that may be true, I'm thinking its just keeping their options open, maintaining consistency for later in case there *is* a relevant rules interaction. I like that mindset prevailing in the studio...

 Red_Zeke wrote:
A lot of folks are reading into this, thinking that its a nod to something the design crew knows is coming up in 9th. While that may be true, I'm thinking its just keeping their options open, maintaining consistency for later in case there *is* a relevant rules interaction. I like that mindset prevailing in the studio...

I agree. It's probably just an attempt at completeness; all Dwarves have at least a version Shieldwall, even if they have Greatweapons. (Except Slayers, but that's just 'cuz they don't understand this whole concept of "Armor.")

There's actually quite a lot without shieldwall: miners, slayers, rangers, Irondrakes, any named hero, master engineers, etc. It definitely looks like a 9e change, or that someone forgot the rules whilst writing (see also stand and shoot problems with Cinderblast bombs! rune of slowness maybe stacking on different banners due to different wording).

I think you'll find most races do that. If it's a racial talent, they all got it. Every Ogre has fear and Ogre Charge. Even Leadbelchers, who are likely going to be shooting instead.

DE have murderous prowess.

HE have martial prowess.

If they didn't have them, you would be like, "why did Leadbelchers not learn how to become big ogres just because they're leadbelchers?" It would be far more odd.

Doesnt it just mean.... when you are charged that turn you can DECIDE to use HW/shield and then benefit from shield wall ?

I dont see how this has any other meaning, "further edition rules", "Great weapon and shield".... It simply means they have shield wall rule, shields and hand weapons to use the rule if/when they are charged if they give up the GW for that combat.

Tsilber wrote:
Doesnt it just mean.... when you are charged that turn you can DECIDE to use HW/shield and then benefit from shield wall ?

I dont see how this has any other meaning, "further edition rules", "Great weapon and shield".... It simply means they have shield wall rule, shields and hand weapons to use the rule if/when they are charged if they give up the GW for that combat.

Why would it mean that? You are forced to use great weapons by the rulebook. There is nothing in the Army Book that even hints at over writing that rule. Unless you can provide some evidence that there is a rule that does?

You can't decide to use weapons you replaced. They're replaced. And the BRB forbids it. Unless they have a rule, like Black Orcs, where they are are literally carrying around an assortment of weapons.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
You can't decide to use weapons you replaced. They're replaced. And the BRB forbids it. Unless they have a rule, like Black Orcs, where they are are literally carrying around an assortment of weapons.

I dont have the BRB with me, but i thought it did say something along the lines of you cant use weapons you 'REPLACE'.... But you are not replacing the hand weapons with great weapons, Hammerers come with both.
Maybe im wrong, i dont know /shrug...
But What page does it say if you are armed with great weapons and hand weapons you have to use the great weapons?

EDIT: Oh i found it page 88, small RB. Special weapon is anything other than a HW. Page 89 a model armed with special cannot elect to use his Hand weapon. Hmm stand corrected i guess.