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Hello everybody,

I'm having a small dispute with a friend regarding our latest game and I'm in need of arguments supporting (or otherwise) that my deployment was legal according to the rules. Here's my list:

(Reserve, joined to Sternguard) He'Stan
(Reserve) Tacticals in Drop Pod
(Reserve) Tacticals in Drop Pod
(On Table) Scouts
(Reserve) Sternguards in Drop Pod
(On Table) Devastators
Fortification

His argument is that while the Drop Pods do not count, the units inside them still do and that I arrived with 4 units versus 2 units on the table.

yes, the unit/s in drop pods definitly count towards how many units you have/can hold in reserve. Why wouldn't they?

 centuryslayer wrote:
yes, the unit/s in drop pods definitly count towards how many units you have/can hold in reserve. Why wouldn't they?

because they don't....

units that are forced to start in reserve do not count towards the total number of units you may hold in reserve.

a unit that has taken a drop pod as a dedicated transport and elects to embark upon it are forced to be held in reserve at the start of the game.

Sorry, updated OP, missed writing the Sternguards as inside a DP. The issue here is that we're having different interpretation of what it means that a unit that has to start in reserve does not count and that a DT count as one with it's host unit.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 centuryslayer wrote:
yes, the unit/s in drop pods definitly count towards how many units you have/can hold in reserve. Why wouldn't they?

because they don't....

units that are forced to start in reserve do not count towards the total number of units you may hold in reserve.

a unit that has taken a drop pod as a dedicated transport and elects to embark upon it are forced to be held in reserve at the start of the game.

Aha, that is a fair point and it does say that in the first line on the drop pod on page 99 in the codex (just checked) under drop pod assault.

Dammned time warping, by the time I had answered it was already done.

BRB pg 124 Preparing reserves section, just in case someone wants to check.

 GreatAtuin wrote:

 centuryslayer wrote:
yes, the unit/s in drop pods definitly count towards how many units you have/can hold in reserve. Why wouldn't they?

BRB pg 124 Preparing reserves. You are wrong.

yeah. We already know this now


I totally missed the part where drop pods (of course) must be held in reserve. I was just thinking of units held in reserve in general

 GreatAtuin wrote:
Dammned time warping, by the time I had answered it was already done.

BRB pg 124 Preparing reserves section, just in case someone wants to check.

That half covers it. The other half, and a perhaps more clear summary of the whole situation, is found in the main Rulebook FAQ on the last page. Namely:

"Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124)
A: No."

So in essence if you MUST start in reserves, or you are embarked upon something that MUST start in reserves, you don't count towards the limits of what can be in reserves. So the list in the OP could, if desired, hold either the Scouts or Devastors in reserves as well because as far as the reserves rules are concerned those are the only two units that exist.

Oh, FAQ's, I should probably print those out and stick 'em in my codex!

To the best of my knowledge, Drop Pod assault armies are the only legal armies that can field an entire army in reserves and still not automatically lose by the end of the first turn as they'll deep strike in half the force on the first turn guaranteed.

A Necron army can start entirely in Reserve and (in theory) not lose, as long as their opponent has Pods or Deathwing Assault hitting turn 1.

rigeld2 wrote:
A Necron army can start entirely in Reserve and (in theory) not lose, as long as their opponent has Pods or Deathwing Assault hitting turn 1.

They'd have to be going second though, as the FAQ has changed things so you lose if you have nothing on at the end of your own turn in addition to at the end of the game turn.

Chrysis wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
A Necron army can start entirely in Reserve and (in theory) not lose, as long as their opponent has Pods or Deathwing Assault hitting turn 1.

They'd have to be going second though, as the FAQ has changed things so you lose if you have nothing on at the end of your own turn in addition to at the end of the game turn.

I'm not seeing this in the FAQ.... Am I missing something? Which page of the FAQ.

All I see is someone asking if a purchased fortification defeats the "no models at the end of a GAME turn" requirement.

Chrysis wrote:
They'd have to be going second though, as the FAQ has changed things so you lose if you have nothing on at the end of your own turn in addition to at the end of the game turn.

No idea where you got this from, but it's not in the rulebook FAQ.

I believe they're referring to this:
"Q: If you leave combat airspace with all of your Flyers and
have no other models on the gaming board at the beginning of
your opponent's turn, do you automatically lose the game?
(p122)
A: Yes."

This only applies if you have left combat airspace with your flyers, a Necron player on turn 1 could not have possible done so.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I believe they're referring to this:
"Q: If you leave combat airspace with all of your Flyers and
have no other models on the gaming board at the beginning of
your opponent's turn, do you automatically lose the game?
(p122)
A: Yes."

This only applies if you have left combat airspace with your flyers, a Necron player on turn 1 could not have possible done so.

Well this is talking about game turn anyways. If you went first, then when opponents turn is done, you lose. All he has to do is say hes done. If you went second, then its the end of the game turn and you lose anyways.

Given that there are units that can arrive during your opponent's turn, I have to disagree with you.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Given that there are units that can arrive during your opponent's turn, I have to disagree with you.

Who can do this?

Deathmarks.

unto the cruel wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Given that there are units that can arrive during your opponent's turn, I have to disagree with you.

Who can do this?

Necron Deathmarks are the first that spring to mind.

Also any Necron unit with Deepstrike if Nemesor Zandarekh is in the army.