Vallejo Set

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**Innovated**

Hi everyone i am pretty new to the games workshop of warhammer 40k
and i had a question about some paint sets which one is better to start with for a space marine army

http://www.sjaakshobbyshop.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=143_426&products_id=14018

or

http://www.sjaakshobbyshop.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=143_426&products_id=13984

thanks in advance

**AllSeeingSkink**

Starter sets are over rated, just buy the paints you need, and maybe buy blue/yellow/red/white/black even if you don't need them.

What chapter do you want to do? Knowing what colour you want to paint them is a good start

**Innovated**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Starter sets are over rated, just buy the paints you need, and maybe buy blue/yellow/red/white/black even if you don't need them.

What chapter do you want to do? Knowing what colour you want to paint them is a good start

ahh alright thanks for the tip
i am going for the ultramarine chapter

**Sammoth**

Starter sets only work if it has colors you will use. However if you feel you will use more than what your initial colors needed are helps a bit. I like to buy mine in sets IMO. I get more bang for my buck.

**Yonan**

If you're confident you're staying in the hobby, I'd recommend going all out and buying a full large set of paints to begin with. It will allow you to be much more creative by being able to paint what you want on the spot, without a time delay while you order in (or go out and get) a colour that you need. If you go this route, you'd be looking at the 72 colour Vallejo Game Colour or Vallejo Model Air sets imo. I wouldn't recommend model Colour for a sci-fi or fantasy collector as the range is more targeted at "general" hobbyists and don't have the vibrant colours of game colour which are good for fantasy or sci-fi, and aren't smooth and airbrush ready likke Model Air.

If you don't want to go all out, I'd still recommend a smaller VGC or VMA set, if you can find one with the colours you'll be using for your SM Chapter. if not, I'd find a guide for painting your chapter and buy those individual colours. For example, to paint my Blood Ravens which I airbrush mainly:
- Vallejo Polyurethane white primer
- Vallejo Model Air Fire Red
- VMA Hull red (shading)
- VMA Light Red (highlighting)
- VMA Black (detailing)
- VMA ... sand? (bone shoulders/helms)
- VMA light brown (shading bone)
- I forget the green (eyes, purity seals)
- I forget the lighter green (highlighting them)
- I also forget the darker green (shading them)
- VMA Gunmetal (metallic parts)
- VMA Chrome (highlighting metallic parts)
- Vallejo black wash (washing metallic parts)
- Vallejo gloss varnish
- I still need to sort oil washes.
- Vallejo matte varnish.
- Vallejo decal fix and decal something or other.

I hope that guide sort of helps you with what you'd need to paint your chapter. Just take the same base, shade and highlight idea and apply it to the colours you need. I *do* recommend having a set to work from though, and would recommend the VMA one above all others.

**Sammoth**

Yonan wrote:
If you're confident you're staying in the hobby, I'd recommend going all out and buying a full large set of paints to begin with. It will allow you to be much more creative by being able to paint what you want on the spot, without a time delay while you order in (or go out and get) a colour that you need. If you go this route, you'd be looking at the 72 colour Vallejo Game Colour or Vallejo Model Air sets imo. I wouldn't recommend model Colour for a sci-fi or fantasy collector as the range is more targeted at "general" hobbyists and don't have the vibrant colours of game colour which are good for fantasy or sci-fi, and aren't smooth and airbrush ready likke Model Air.

If you don't want to go all out, I'd still recommend a smaller VGC or VMA set, if you can find one with the colours you'll be using for your SM Chapter. if not, I'd find a guide for painting your chapter and buy those individual colours. For example, to paint my Blood Ravens which I airbrush mainly:
- Vallejo Polyurethane white primer
- Vallejo Model Air Fire Red
- VMA Hull red (shading)
- VMA Light Red (highlighting)
- VMA Black (detailing)
- VMA ... sand? (bone shoulders/helms)
- VMA light brown (shading bone)
- I forget the green (eyes, purity seals)
- I forget the lighter green (highlighting them)
- I also forget the darker green (shading them)
- VMA Gunmetal (metallic parts)
- VMA Chrome (highlighting metallic parts)
- Vallejo black wash (washing metallic parts)
- Vallejo gloss varnish
- I still need to sort oil washes.
- Vallejo matte varnish.
- Vallejo decal fix and decal something or other.

I hope that guide sort of helps you with what you'd need to paint your chapter. Just take the same base, shade and highlight idea and apply it to the colours you need. I *do* recommend having a set to work from though, and would recommend the VMA one above all others.

That was my thinking. Just couldn't find the words for it.

**Yonan**

Sammoth wrote:
That was my thinking. Just couldn't find the words for it.

Too late in the evening in the US perhaps! The mornings caffeine has run its course leaving a shallow husk of a man behind. Or at least, that's me from 1 PM on, not sure about you ; p

**AllSeeingSkink**

I'm not sure I agree with the "going all out so buy a large set". I actually learned more about painting when I was forced to mix my own colours. Just buy the colours you need to do your army, so if that's ultramarines, probably a dark blue, mid blue, light blue, blue wash or black wash. Then decide what colours you want for shoulder pads, buy those. Buy a silver metallic for weapons and stuff. Then grab your primer, varnish, etc.

I'd also stay away from VMA unless you actually plan to buy an airbrush. You CAN brush paint them, but they're very thin and transparent, so they're good for layering highlights but will drive you insane for doing basecoats unless you have an airbrush. I do have an airbrush and VMA paints and I still rarely use them for hairy brush painting.

Unless the set is a massive bargain where it has all the paints you want plus a bunch of others for much the same price as buying only the ones you want, I wouldn't really bother. That does sometimes happen (especially if you live in a place with a huge markup and can import a set cheaply).

If you have to do something small, you can often just mix the colour you want (make sure you have all the primary colours and black/white). Then just buy the main colours you need for your army so you don't have to mix those.

Unless you have money and space to burn, in which case, go for it, buy a big set

**Innovated**

Yonan wrote:
If you're confident you're staying in the hobby, I'd recommend going all out and buying a full large set of paints to begin with. It will allow you to be much more creative by being able to paint what you want on the spot, without a time delay while you order in (or go out and get) a colour that you need. If you go this route, you'd be looking at the 72 colour Vallejo Game Colour or Vallejo Model Air sets imo. I wouldn't recommend model Colour for a sci-fi or fantasy collector as the range is more targeted at "general" hobbyists and don't have the vibrant colours of game colour which are good for fantasy or sci-fi, and aren't smooth and airbrush ready likke Model Air.

If you don't want to go all out, I'd still recommend a smaller VGC or VMA set, if you can find one with the colours you'll be using for your SM Chapter. if not, I'd find a guide for painting your chapter and buy those individual colours. For example, to paint my Blood Ravens which I airbrush mainly:
- Vallejo Polyurethane white primer
- Vallejo Model Air Fire Red
- VMA Hull red (shading)
- VMA Light Red (highlighting)
- VMA Black (detailing)
- VMA ... sand? (bone shoulders/helms)
- VMA light brown (shading bone)
- I forget the green (eyes, purity seals)
- I forget the lighter green (highlighting them)
- I also forget the darker green (shading them)
- VMA Gunmetal (metallic parts)
- VMA Chrome (highlighting metallic parts)
- Vallejo black wash (washing metallic parts)
- Vallejo gloss varnish
- I still need to sort oil washes.
- Vallejo matte varnish.
- Vallejo decal fix and decal something or other.

I hope that guide sort of helps you with what you'd need to paint your chapter. Just take the same base, shade and highlight idea and apply it to the colours you need. I *do* recommend having a set to work from though, and would recommend the VMA one above all others.

thank you for taking the time to explain it i will go search for the paint i need to use for my ultramarines

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with the "going all out so buy a large set". I actually learned more about painting when I was forced to mix my own colours. Just buy the colours you need to do your army, so if that's ultramarines, probably a dark blue, mid blue, light blue, blue wash or black wash. Then decide what colours you want for shoulder pads, buy those. Buy a silver metallic for weapons and stuff. Then grab your primer, varnish, etc.

I'd also stay away from VMA unless you actually plan to buy an airbrush. You CAN brush paint them, but they're very thin and transparent, so they're good for layering highlights but will drive you insane for doing basecoats unless you have an airbrush. I do have an airbrush and VMA paints and I still rarely use them for hairy brush painting.

Unless the set is a massive bargain where it has all the paints you want plus a bunch of others for much the same price as buying only the ones you want, I wouldn't really bother. That does sometimes happen (especially if you live in a place with a huge markup and can import a set cheaply).

If you have to do something small, you can often just mix the colour you want (make sure you have all the primary colours and black/white). Then just buy the main colours you need for your army so you don't have to mix those.

Unless you have money and space to burn, in which case, go for it, buy a big set

alright i will go look for the blue,gold,silver, black,white colour's and ofcourse the primer thank you for explaining

**AllSeeingSkink**

Have you looked up some tutorials on how to paint your ultramarines?

Have a look around, there's various ways you can paint them, and depending on how you paint them, you'll need different paints.

**Yonan**

BuyPainted Ultramarines - my favourite youtube painter. So much so I paid $25 to subscribe to his stuff.
Awesomepaintjob Ultramarines (Les) - a champion too.
Girlpainting Ultramarines - GP is great, little to no use of airbrush and better for "beginner" painters in general I'd say.

Those are 3 of my favourite youtube painters, so hopefully they'll help you with your ultramarines. I've learned so much from these guys, I highly recommend subscribing to them.

I also forgot some colours in my list above. Golds and browns are also usually necessary. Probably more that I can't think of off hand hehe.

**granander**

I am a bit divided on this issue... I do like to have a big collection of paints, but do I really NEED them... probably not.

For repeatability it is very nice to find paints you can used without mixing for the primary colours. And if you paint a variety of models you end up with a bit of a collection. Also, after a while you find favourite combos, like 3 specific tones you tend to do leather and such.

Sets are great for building a basic set and Vallejo have a large number of specific sets for specific themes. If you find one of those that is close to what you want to do you have a good start.

I think I have around 150paints and still expanding but I do paint anything from 40k to WW2.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I will say that I've never bought a large set (have a couple of smaller ones), but over the years I've collected probably about 100-150 paints from different manufacturers. I can say the majority of them I haven't touched in the past 2 years, a handful I use regularly, and the rest I've used 1 or 2 times in the past 2 years.

If you're painting a whole heap of different armies, yeah, I can see a big set being worth while. Even then, I have been working on 4 different armies with unique colours and I STILL haven't used most the paints I have, lol.

The other thing, it is nice to actually have paints from different manufacturers. GW paints for the most part I don't like except for their bases, I like their bases. For the most part that's the only GW paints I use, however there are a couple of colours that I can't find good matches for in other ranges that I also use. Then VMA paints are good for airbrushing. Reaper make a couple of greys that I like. Gunze make some metallics I like and they have some brown greys that match WW2 german aircraft colours that I like as well. P3 has a couple of greens I like and I also have some model colour paints as well, in addition to some old school GW paints that match the coat d' arms range.

**Captain Fantastic**

I recently purchased a huge amount of vallejo model color paints (16 total, 9 are red-shades) for my word bearers army. I only ended up using about 8 of those paints, because I could get such good mixtures with just three colors or so. Violet and Carmine Red mix together to form something strangely similar to Red Gore or Scab Red, depending on how much you use of each.

Vallejo colors are all created using the same type of pigments, so they blend quite well, and also thin down very well, to the point that you can make your own washes, something I know from experience is not possible with GW colors, at least the old range.

My painting has not gotten better miraculously, but the amount of paint I consume, and the mess I make has been greatly minimized. Dropper bottles are the best thing in the world, in my opinion. You only use whatever precious micorleters you need; no dipping a brush into a pot and dipping it out as you need it.

In fairness, I have not used the new GW line, as I've already grown kind of bored of painting, and don't feel like spending any more. There are also several paints in the old line that I wish I had, like Boltgun metal and Chainmail. Vallejo metals are not the strongest. Maybe if I had some grey to throw into them, I might like them more. Devlan Mud and Badab black would be child's play to make, but I really wish I just had them in a pot. Pots are good for washing,. especially huge areas, like Rhinos.

It's your choice. Nothing is stopping you from buying both. I've never met a good painter who was so adamant about using one or the other, or a vast mixture of many different lines.

**AllSeeingSkink**

You can make washes with GW, the current ones and the old ones. Just use an acrylic thinner, a bit of water, and maybe something to improve the flow (bit of dish washing detergent).

**Yonan**

You can make washes with any acrylic paint, non-GW paints will be far more cost effective in doing so. Also easier since the dropper bottles that my Japanese friend above mentions really do make using the paints easier.

I've been considering getting nuln oil and agrax earthshade as the only 2 GW non-miniature products I will ever buy. Supposedly they're very good and better than the Vallejo washes I have because they behave in a pretty unique way, smoother than your own normal wash recipes would. Also considering the Army Painter ones for a similar reason. Grrr, decisions decisions.

**granander**

When it comes to washes I have heard great things about SecretWeapon Washes, I am planning to buy a batch and try them out when I get around to it.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Yonan wrote:
You can make washes with any acrylic paint, non-GW paints will be far more cost effective in doing so. Also easier since the dropper bottles that my Japanese friend above mentions really do make using the paints easier.

I've been considering getting nuln oil and agrax earthshade as the only 2 GW non-miniature products I will ever buy. Supposedly they're very good and better than the Vallejo washes I have because they behave in a pretty unique way, smoother than your own normal wash recipes would. Also considering the Army Painter ones for a similar reason. Grrr, decisions decisions.

I do like Nuln Oil. For just slapping on a reasonably thick wash, it works good. Cost effectiveness of making washes isn't a big deal, if you're making your own wash a single pot of paint will give you several pots of wash. But obviously buying GW washes is more expensive. Dropper bottles, meh, I like dropper bottles, but it's no big deal to not have them. In an hour of painting, I might waste an extra 30 seconds if I don't have a dropper bottle. Even then, I have reaper dropper bottles that keep clogging, so it's not like droppers are a silver bullet to avoid frustration.

The main thing from the GW range I like is the base paints. A couple of their colours I haven't been able to find good matches for either, I like Eshin Grey.

I don't think any range of paints is without merit, I wouldn't limit myself to any of them. I have recently been airbrusing with some Mr. Hobby Aqueous colours and they go on wonderfully smooth.

**granander**

Yes, I do agree that all lines have their qualities, but I still maintain that GW has fewer than most

But yes, there is a bit difference between all lines and it is much to personal preference. Some see the droppers as a deciding factor. But I know people who buy GW and then transfer them to droppers and the other way around.

When it comes to Vallejo I use all of the 5 different Vallejo lines (this is just counting the ones common to modeling, they have ALOT) and they all have different properties, some are better as certain things and worse at others.

As a side note I use (all from Vallejo):

Game Color

Model Color

Modell Air

Panzer Aces

Liquid Gold

**Captain Fantastic**

Vallejo does have a metallic line, doesn't it? I would really really like to try them eventually. As a whole, I was underwhelmed by the Game Color line. It makes a lot of effort to appeal to people who paint gaming miniatures, but it skips a lot of natural tones that the Model Color line does better.

Whatever. It's not like it really matters. They're all the same Vallejo name, so no matter what line you pick from, it's bound to be good.

As far as making washes out of GW paint, it is possible, but far too annoying to bother with. You can make some nice thinned down lining mixes with GW colors though, since they're so thick. I used them many times for scroll work and stuff that I could afford to be messy with. Chaos is fairly forgiving with dramatic lining, exaggerated highlights, and poor free-hand work.

**granander**

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Vallejo does have a metallic line, doesn't it? I would really really like to try them eventually. As a whole, I was underwhelmed by the Game Color line. It makes a lot of effort to appeal to people who paint gaming miniatures, but it skips a lot of natural tones that the Model Color line does better.

Yes, Liquid Gold is a line with only metallics. They are alcohol base though. But the pigments are EXTREMELY fine for a smooth finish. (http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/liquid-gold/family/11). If you want to thin them you need Isopropyl Alcohol.

As an alternative the Model Air line have very nice metallics aswell. They are pretty thin with good pigmentations so can easily be brushed on.