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I'm going to be playing an 1850 point game against space wolves this weekend and I'm wondering what the opinion of this list is

1 HQ: 67pts
Ethereal
Shield Drone

2 Troops: 236pts
11 Fire Warriors
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui

11 Fire Warriors
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui

2 Elites: 414pts
XV104 Riptide
Shielded Missile Drone

Crisis Shas'ui (MP, PR, Advanced Targeting System)
Crisis Shas'ui (MP, PR, Drone Controller)
Crisis Shas'ui (MP, PR, Vectored Retro-Thrusters)
2x Gun Drones

2 Heavy Support: 393pts
Hammerhead Gunship (Submunition, Decoy Launcher, Sensor Spines, Disruption Pod, Seeker Missile x2, Longstrike)
Hammerhead Gunship (Submunition, Seeker Missile x2, Decoy Launcher, Sensor Spines, Advanced Targeting System, Disruption Pod)

1 Fast Attack: 217pts
6 Pathfinders (3 Pulse Carbines, 3 Rail Rifles)
1 Pathfinder Shas'ui
Devilfish (Sensor Spines, 2x Gun Drones)

Allies:
HQ: Farseer w/Singing Spear
Troops: 9 Rangers
Elite: 5 Wraithguard w/Wave Serpent

We've made an agreement to not use flyers this game and it's been a while since I've played so I welcome suggestions for changes to make to this list. I'm limited on the number of suits I have so that's why there aren't many suits here.

I personally think you may be a little light on troops given how fragile rangers and fire warriors are.

Also I would probably ditch the rail rifles and run max markerlights in your path finder unit. You can ditch their devilfish as well (or give it to the fire warriors) as it isn't compulsory for them to have one any more.

I would also watch out for Jaws with your riptide. They die frighteningly easily to it.

I agree with all that Rohansoldier said and have a few more thoughts. First one that comes to mind is why does one of your Crisis suits have Drone controller and the unit has no Drones?

Second thought is I never found it useful to get the Shas'ui upgrade for Firewarriors unless you REALLY need the markerlight or want drones for them. Since you have neither I don't think he's worth the points, and if you are using your Ethereal with them then they are going to be using his Leadership for checks so there isn't much point in the upgrade. Another reason to get the upgrade is to allow for challenges in melee but personally I'd rather have extra models to shoot than that survivability since it's basically a one turn solution.

Lastly I wanted to expand on Rohan's Devilfish suggestion. Pathfinders don't need it with scout and enormous range with markerlights. Fire Warriors DO need it especially if you are using them to camp the neutral objective. You need the devilfish to get you there safely and quickly. I'd also like to suggest putting your ethereal with that advancing FWs because of his buff to their shooting it helps a ton with overwatch and you are in danger of that on the neutral point.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I personally think you may be a little light on troops given how fragile rangers and fire warriors are.

Also I would probably ditch the rail rifles and run max markerlights in your path finder unit. You can ditch their devilfish as well (or give it to the fire warriors) as it isn't compulsory for them to have one any more.

I would also watch out for Jaws with your riptide. They die frighteningly easily to it.

I'll keep in mind to watch out for Jaws. Thanks.

As for light on troops, I kind of feel like all of my troops options are kind of frail. Any suggestions for something not as frail?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mutten006 wrote:
I agree with all that Rohansoldier said and have a few more thoughts. First one that comes to mind is why does one of your Crisis suits have Drone controller and the unit has no Drones?

Second thought is I never found it useful to get the Shas'ui upgrade for Firewarriors unless you REALLY need the markerlight or want drones for them. Since you have neither I don't think he's worth the points, and if you are using your Ethereal with them then they are going to be using his Leadership for checks so there isn't much point in the upgrade. Another reason to get the upgrade is to allow for challenges in melee but personally I'd rather have extra models to shoot than that survivability since it's basically a one turn solution.

Lastly I wanted to expand on Rohan's Devilfish suggestion. Pathfinders don't need it with scout and enormous range with markerlights. Fire Warriors DO need it especially if you are using them to camp the neutral objective. You need the devilfish to get you there safely and quickly. I'd also like to suggest putting your ethereal with that advancing FWs because of his buff to their shooting it helps a ton with overwatch and you are in danger of that on the neutral point.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to include the drones. They are there. Thanks for pointing that out.

Okay, so I'll move the devilfish to one of the FW squads and I'll run the ethereal with them. I'll also remove the shas'ui from that squad at least.

 xxmintyfreshxx wrote:
As for light on troops, I kind of feel like all of my troops options are kind of frail. Any suggestions for something not as frail?

The main thing to know about troops in the Tau is that they are frail, however they can mow people down with the shooting phase and overwatch. The real power of the Fire Warriors is the mass amount of shooting you get to do. You just have to position yourself where you can shoot before they can to get maximum effeciency from your army.

mutten006 wrote:

 xxmintyfreshxx wrote:
As for light on troops, I kind of feel like all of my troops options are kind of frail. Any suggestions for something not as frail?

The main thing to know about troops in the Tau is that they are frail, however they can mow people down with the shooting phase and overwatch. The real power of the Fire Warriors is the mass amount of shooting you get to do. You just have to position yourself where you can shoot before they can to get maximum effeciency from your army.

That makes sense to me.

That being said, would it be beneficial to drop at least one of the hammerheads and run both squads of fire warriors in devilfish? I only have the 3 tanks so I'm kind of limited there.

I'd suggest dropping one of the hammerheads to get an additional FW squad and a Devilfish allowing for 2 forward Fire Warrior squads. You're going to want to keep one outside of the Devilfish imo because you are going to place them on your objective and they will never leave, so not much point in getting them a transport, just make sure to get them some cover when placing the objective.

mutten006 wrote:
I'd suggest dropping one of the hammerheads to get an additional FW squad and a Devilfish allowing for 2 forward Fire Warrior squads. You're going to want to keep one outside of the Devilfish imo because you are going to place them on your objective and they will never leave, so not much point in getting them a transport, just make sure to get them some cover when placing the objective.

Okay, that's what I'll do then. I'll update the list on army builder when I get home from work. Thanks!

Don't bother with shielded missile drones on the Riptide. They are more fragile than the Riptide and you will be forced to roll for leadership after only one dies. That'll save you 50 pts right there.

Just as a heads up by the way, I think a devilfish can only transpory 12 models... if you want the ethereal in one, you may need to drop a firewarrior.

Now what can you do with those points? Put that farseer on a jetbike. The jetbike will give the farseer a 3+ armor save, make him t4, and give him a 2d6 jump move in the assault phase. Pair him up with the Riptide for additional anti psyker defense AND use of psyker powers. Try to get perfect timing on the divination tree to have your Riptide ignore cover, and get guide or presience to twin link him. If you opponent calls shenanigans on an ic joining an mc, refer to the ic rule in tbe rulebook. And independent character can not join a unit that can only consist of one model. A Riptide CAN take drones; so in theory a Riptide can be part of a squad.

P.S. check your math btw, even with two Riptides with one shielded missile drone each, you over costed yourself about 4 points.

P.S.S. if I'm not mistaken, decoy launchers only protects you from intercept. So why have it on hammerheads you plan on having on the board turn one? I think you meant disruption pods, those give the +1 to cover

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Don't bother with shielded missile drones on the Riptide. They are more fragile than the Riptide and you will be forced to roll for leadership after only one dies. That'll save you 50 pts right there.

Just as a heads up by the way, I think a devilfish can only transpory 12 models... if you want the ethereal in one, you may need to drop a firewarrior.

Now what can you do with those points? Put that farseer on a jetbike. The jetbike will give the farseer a 3+ armor save, make him t4, and give him a 2d6 jump move in the assault phase. Pair him up with the Riptide for additional anti psyker defense AND use of psyker powers. Try to get perfect timing on the divination tree to have your Riptide ignore cover, and get guide or presience to twin link him. If you opponent calls shenanigans on an ic joining an mc, refer to the ic rule in tbe rulebook. And independent character can not join a unit that can only consist of one model. A Riptide CAN take drones; so in theory a Riptide can be part of a squad.

P.S. check your math btw, even with two Riptides with one shielded missile drone each, you over costed yourself about 4 points.

P.S.S. if I'm not mistaken, decoy launchers only protects you from intercept. So why have it on hammerheads you plan on having on the board turn one? I think you meant disruption pods, those give the +1 to cover

Yes, I am aware of the transport capacity.

I will remove the 1 shielded missile drone from the riptide (saving 25 points)

The issue with jetbike farseer is modeling one for tomorrow. Not likely going to happen.

P.S. Read it again, there's only 1 riptide listed there. Not 2.

P.P.S. Again, read it again. Both are listed on the hammerheads.

 xxmintyfreshxx wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Don't bother with shielded missile drones on the Riptide. They are more fragile than the Riptide and you will be forced to roll for leadership after only one dies. That'll save you 50 pts right there.

Just as a heads up by the way, I think a devilfish can only transpory 12 models... if you want the ethereal in one, you may need to drop a firewarrior.

Now what can you do with those points? Put that farseer on a jetbike. The jetbike will give the farseer a 3+ armor save, make him t4, and give him a 2d6 jump move in the assault phase. Pair him up with the Riptide for additional anti psyker defense AND use of psyker powers. Try to get perfect timing on the divination tree to have your Riptide ignore cover, and get guide or presience to twin link him. If you opponent calls shenanigans on an ic joining an mc, refer to the ic rule in tbe rulebook. And independent character can not join a unit that can only consist of one model. A Riptide CAN take drones; so in theory a Riptide can be part of a squad.

P.S. check your math btw, even with two Riptides with one shielded missile drone each, you over costed yourself about 4 points.

P.S.S. if I'm not mistaken, decoy launchers only protects you from intercept. So why have it on hammerheads you plan on having on the board turn one? I think you meant disruption pods, those give the +1 to cover

Yes, I am aware of the transport capacity.

I will remove the 1 shielded missile drone from the riptide (saving 25 points)

The issue with jetbike farseer is modeling one for tomorrow. Not likely going to happen.

P.S. Read it again, there's only 1 riptide listed there. Not 2.

P.P.S. Again, read it again. Both are listed on the hammerheads.

Ok I'll give you the disruption pod, but you know that Decoy Launcher only protects you against intercept right? Do you plan on keeping your hammerheads off the board during deployment?