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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 02:40:05
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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How do you beat Taudar with CSM? 2000 points.
charging his line with bikes, land raider, and heldrakes didn't work.
deep striking oblits and typhus behind him did next to nothing.
camping my own objectives didn't even help, as Eldar buffed Riptides just vaporized anything on the table.
Would kamikaze running two vindicators and a land raider in turn one - then in turn 2 deep striking in oblits, mutilators, terminators, and charging 2 heldrakes work? (assuming I succeed on every reserve roll in turn 2)?
its super not fun watching your opponent do literally nothing at all but pick targets and roll dice all game - no effort or thought required ; and get easy kills. while I am forced to make tough decisions and depend on lucky reserve rolls to even have a chance. both of us were bored by turn 3 and pretty much lost interest in just watching him pick everything apart before it could do anything.
how does csm beat taudar and their 200+ dice rolls per turn? and what the hell.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 02:54:44
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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sand.zzz wrote:its super not fun watching your opponent do literally nothing at all but pick targets and roll dice all game - no effort or thought required
Your opponent is playing taudar. That's the very definition of doing nothing but thoughtlessly rolling dice right now. That may be frustrating to you, but that's clearly the kind of game your opponent wants to play. Even if you do have a counter, you're likely just going to make things frustrating for him because then he WON'T be able to mindlessly roll dice at stuff. In this case, the best way for the both of you to win is not to play each other.
If you really insist, though, the best you'll probably do is with an all-raider list. CSM have awful shooting compared to... well, pretty much everyone but demons. Certainly compared to taudar. Given that he will also have mobility, that means you're looking at a game where shooting is going to be very pointless for you to even try. The only way you might get around this is with land raiders. Raiders will also give you the ability to possibly... possibly get a charge in, which is important because CSM is a big CC army.
Plus, tau aren't great against AV14, and lance weapons for light-side eldar are expensive.
The problem, of course, is that a good land raider list will have like 4 land raiders in it, which isn't going to be cheap for you. You might be better off telling your opponent to man up and play a real game rather than just yahtzee on extra easy mode, but I doubt that will work. Most people have the odd notion that winning is a sign that you're good at 40k...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 04:00:46
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Executing Exarch
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What models do you have available?
What books do you guys use? Forgeworld, Stronghold Assault, Escalation?
Do you own the Be'lakor dataslate and model and/or the black legion supplement?
I can assure you there are multiple different ways for CSM to beat Taudar. It just takes playing in a different way than running forward into guns with no mitigation of opponent strength.
Also do you have any CD to ally? And for the purpose of writing strategy what in general is the Taudar you face?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 04:34:59
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If he brings Tausar insist on Dawn of War table set up
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 05:29:03
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
OK
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Ailaros wrote:sand.zzz wrote:its super not fun watching your opponent do literally nothing at all but pick targets and roll dice all game - no effort or thought required
Your opponent is playing taudar. That's the very definition of doing nothing but thoughtlessly rolling dice right now. That may be frustrating to you, but that's clearly the kind of game your opponent wants to play. Even if you do have a counter, you're likely just going to make things frustrating for him because then he WON'T be able to mindlessly roll dice at stuff. In this case, the best way for the both of you to win is not to play each other.
If you really insist, though, the best you'll probably do is with an all-raider list. CSM have awful shooting compared to... well, pretty much everyone but demons. Certainly compared to taudar. Given that he will also have mobility, that means you're looking at a game where shooting is going to be very pointless for you to even try. The only way you might get around this is with land raiders. Raiders will also give you the ability to possibly... possibly get a charge in, which is important because CSM is a big CC army.
Plus, tau aren't great against AV14, and lance weapons for light-side eldar are expensive.
The problem, of course, is that a good land raider list will have like 4 land raiders in it, which isn't going to be cheap for you. You might be better off telling your opponent to man up and play a real game rather than just yahtzee on extra easy mode, but I doubt that will work. Most people have the odd notion that winning is a sign that you're good at 40k...
This is the only good advice you're going to get. Land Raider spam is really the only way you can make progress. However, that's still a boring game. If somebody is so desperate to win they need to play Taudar in a casual game it's probably best to not play such a person.
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Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 05:38:58
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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He may not agree but maybe ask if he is willing to accept a game under certain circumstances. You don't have to play strictly by the rules. Maybe ask for 300 points in fortifications for free. Or maybe ask for a unit of yours free and off the FoC constraints.
If I was playing against a guy who didn't bring an equal army to mine in a fun game, I'd let them play an extra elite or HQ
Get some allies yourself. Chaos Daemons seem like a good choice for Chaos SM. Little too soon but there might be a rule to have imperial knights as a chaos ally.
If you got $160 buy a Spartan assault tank. Put 10 terminators and typhus in it and assault the biggest baddy he's got.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/22 05:43:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 06:00:56
Subject: Re:how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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If u're telling that the opponent is just standing and shooting doing nothing else, that means u've got wrong terrain composition. Try putting some decent blos terrain so that you can hide your advance. Some blos in the middle that can totally hide a landraider at least. On a regular openfield map you have no chances no matter what you do. I manage to win taudar with my orkses from time to time just cause they don't know what to do when there's a proper map and make a ton of stupid tactical mistakes.
Note that i'm not talking about something like a giant wall that can fully protect your advance. Just something like a 2-store solid blos building in the middle of the map. Fluffwise, no army with close-ranged firepower and strong assault wants to fight tau in the open unless they're heavy on deepstrike (doesn't work tabletop cause you can't charge after deepstrike for some reason).
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/02/22 06:11:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 06:10:06
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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He's a decent guy I don't begrudge him playing any list, I guess its good to get practice in vs. tough lists.
As far as models and rulebooks, I have a little over 8k points of csm with a few of everything in the codex, and a couple FW units. I have the black legion supplement, Belakor and 4500 points of daemons comprised of screamerstar/fateweaver and a nurgle/khorne list. plus a few odds and ends and a few FW units. GCO, plague hulk, blight drones. So basically any unit is available, but I'd like to beat this list with straight CSM no ally.
I know little of Tau or Eldar but Ill try to get his list right.
3 squads of 10 fire warriors
1 squad of long range infantry that used markerlights
1 squad of eldar infantry with a lance
1 squad of 3 Tau suits with shield drones, long guns and missile pods
1 squad of 3 Tau suits with shielddrones, shorter guns, and missile pods. 3 hunter killer missiles
1 unit of 3 eldar cannon/artillery things
1 squad of 6 eldar infantry that never shot at me
2 riptides
3 eldar jetbikes
1 eldar psyker hq with some strong buffs and a debuff that made me reroll successful saves
1 tau hq suit that didn't shoot but buffed a squad of suits
Any advice or suggestions welcome and appreciated.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 08:12:41
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe
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sand.zzz wrote:I know little of Tau or Eldar but Ill try to get his list right.
Fix this first. Borrow/acquire the Tau & Eldar codices and read up on everything so you know
-What the armies are capable of
-What the individual unit types are capable of
-What kind of force multipliers they bring together
and thusly
-How to play to their weaknesses and playing on their terms.
Personally I've had great success vs Tau with Rhino/Spawn/Maulerfiend/Daemon Prince blitz, but never played Taudar. GLHF, and looking forward to reading as this thread develops.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/22 08:15:05
-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 08:30:52
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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sand.zzz wrote:How do you beat Taudar with CSM? 2000 points.
charging his line with bikes, land raider, and heldrakes didn't work.
deep striking oblits and typhus behind him did next to nothing.
camping my own objectives didn't even help, as Eldar buffed Riptides just vaporized anything on the table.
Would kamikaze running two vindicators and a land raider in turn one - then in turn 2 deep striking in oblits, mutilators, terminators, and charging 2 heldrakes work? (assuming I succeed on every reserve roll in turn 2)?
its super not fun watching your opponent do literally nothing at all but pick targets and roll dice all game - no effort or thought required ; and get easy kills. while I am forced to make tough decisions and depend on lucky reserve rolls to even have a chance. both of us were bored by turn 3 and pretty much lost interest in just watching him pick everything apart before it could do anything.
how does csm beat taudar and their 200+ dice rolls per turn? and what the hell.
I personally am fighting them and Eldar (well to be fair, everyone) with a Night Lord list. i overload him with targets and he cannot kill them fast ENOUGH. Target priority for certain units ends up being sucky for the enemy and the ORDER of fire gets tricky when you overload them and is much to your advantage.
14 Nurgle Raptors (2 Meltaguns, Sword+Meltabomb on Champion)
14 Nurgle Raptors (2 Meltaguns, Sword+Meltabomb on Champion)
Heldrake (Baleflamer)
2 Chaos Rhinos (Dirge Casters)
2 Black Legion Rhinos (Dirge Casters)
1 Nurgle Obliterator
1 Nurgle Obliterator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
Sorcerer (Nurgle, meltabomb)
Chaos Lord (Veteran of the Long War, Nurgle, Eye of Night, Powerfist, combimelta, Aura of Dark Glory)
2 units of 5 Chaos Marines
2 unit of 5 Black Legion Chaos Marines (Veterans of the Long War)
Skyshield Landing Pad
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/22 08:32:59
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 08:34:04
Subject: Re:how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Nurgle raptors cost as much as bikers though. But on heavy blos map i see their uses.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 08:51:35
Subject: Re:how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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koooaei wrote:Nurgle raptors cost as much as bikers though. But on heavy blos map i see their uses.
The thread is about how one is fighting them and this IS how. Whether you use Bikes or Raptors (and there is a pretty good debate to be had on that for sure) the idea is the same.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 09:57:41
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Jancoran wrote:
14 Nurgle Raptors (2 Meltaguns, Sword+Meltabomb on Champion)
14 Nurgle Raptors (2 Meltaguns, Sword+Meltabomb on Champion)
Heldrake (Baleflamer)
2 Chaos Rhinos (Dirge Casters)
2 Black Legion Rhinos (Dirge Casters)
1 Nurgle Obliterator
1 Nurgle Obliterator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
Sorcerer (Nurgle, meltabomb)
Chaos Lord (Veteran of the Long War, Nurgle, Eye of Night, Powerfist, combimelta, Aura of Dark Glory)
2 units of 5 Chaos Marines
2 unit of 5 Black Legion Chaos Marines (Veterans of the Long War)
Skyshield Landing Pad
This.
I'd give the 2 HQ jump packs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 17:35:04
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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I like separating all the mutilators and oblits to reduce the effectiveness of his large volume of fire. but he will -with near certainty- be able to kill at least 4 units per turn. (2 suit squads, 2 riptides). which will require me to succeed on all reserve rolls in the same turn. but there really isn't any other choice is there?
deep strike and rush his line, then hope you have enough left to reduce his volume of fire to a manageable level.
The suits have to go first, which is possible if I get lucky on my reserve/deep strike rolls. it just seems silly that I have to rely on the ball bouncing in my favor on several levels to have a chance at winning. when all he has to do is count dice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 18:14:20
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Deep Strike is only necessary, in this list, by the oblits and Mutilators. i am finding that the Raptors do not benefit as much in THIS list from deep Striking. There ARE times, but its not the majority of the time. Moving and running them forward seems to allow for many more target priority issues. All those rhinos and Raptors sweeping forth, a heldrake on the way and on round 2, the Nurgle Droppings making it even more difficult. It presses the Tau against their back wall pretty well and the Chaos marines just reserve and show up later, run to objectives while the Tau are rather busy late game trying to get free and get some shots off. You might takle a beating from the Tau shooting, but as long as you hold them in place it doesn't matter.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 18:41:18
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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A few tips for dealing with Tau/Dar from a chaos player.
1) Ignore everything he has until his markerlights are destroyed, these are priority 1. With those markerlights gone he has to rely on rolling for Perfect Timing on the divnation table to benefit from Ignores Cover.
2) Kill off his Eldar HQs secondly. If you can that is. If he has some pathetic setup where he's blocking LoS entirely to his HQ while simply buffing them, your deployments were cheesed and you should know to do the exact same against him every time in the future. Block his LoS, put terrain on your table side that specifically does this if he does as well. Once his Eldar buff-bots are gone he becomes considerably weaker.
3) Long raged fire power will be your friend. Noise Marines eat through cover like its paper. Bale Drakes as well. Take 2 and cheese him to oblivion for their point costs. There is a small chance you'll lose one later in the game, but most opponents won't bring any more than 1 unit that has the capabilities of skyfire. Otherwise they'll just have a Quadgun and D-Line. Noise Marines also out range your opponents with Blast Masters, so abuse this, and with luck you might just pin him too.
4) He wants to fight at range? You fight at range as well! I ALWAYS bring 3 Tri-Las-Predators. The only time I'm not is when I'm showing mercy >: ( That being said focusing 3 Tri-Las-Preds on a single Riptide usually means it's going to be killed in 1-2 turns. Luck may have it that it's gaining cover though so watch out, but you get the picture.
Focusing down priorities is the best thing you can do. Once you learn about them and how they effect both you and your opponent, you are pretty much set.
If I can make a suggestion on HQ choices. Be'Lakor makes short work of Tau with their own fish bowls. Halucination is the bees-knees and mind jacking a Riptide can leave some serious hurt on your opponent.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 19:14:07
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Triple Chaos tri-las pred build is solid. This is from facing it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 20:15:10
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Yea his eldar hq had some strong buffs. I just couldn't get near it, or really anything for that matter. He killed everything before I could lock any of his units down in cc. The amount of dice he rolled just made all my 2+ armor and saves useless. Even lanced then wrecked my land raider in a single turn. it was an effortless turkey shoot for him.
I did run two heldrakes. He shot one down before it reached him, the other got to attack once before it was destroyed.
I never realized just how much of an advantage shooting has over cc. I really hope they make some adjustments to this for the sake of parity and fun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/22 20:49:00
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Thats why Ive been tinkering this Night Lord list: to find out how to do melee correctly in 6E. I think I have figured it out though.
Think of it this way. In 5E, the enemy couldn't overwatch and you got UP to a 6" charge (terrain is present a lot in charges).
In 6E, my army makes it so you dont get overwatch... and I get up to 12" charges.
see a difference? =)
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 07:26:34
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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It looks like Tau is his primary, with eldar allies.
The eldar part looks like, simply:
Farseer
guardians with bright lance
3 jetbikes
Squad of heavy weapon platforms
that 6 man infantry squad you mentioned - he's already used his 2 troops for an ally, so it must be fire dragons or wraithguard that you're just not getting close enough to be shot at by. It could be warp spiders too.
The tau main army:
30 fire warriors (these are nasty, but are also easily killed)
Batman commander (he doesn't shoot, he just joins a squad and makes it ridiculous)
2 riptides (these are the big problems for anything far away)
3 broadsides with rail rifles (these are great against terminators and tanks, otherwise they're pretty meh) and smart missile systems (short range, not very good)
3 broadsides with high-yield missile pods and smart missile systems (lots of S7 shots. Ouch).
And a squad of pathfinders (no real guns, just markerlights)
Here's my first piece of advice: Calm down.
I don't mean to sound condescending, but you've probably maybe played against this list...one time with each of your lists? It sounds like you make a list, try it, it fails, and you change your list. You said he just blew up your landraider like it was nothing from his guardian squad. Yes, a brightlance is good at killing many kinds of tanks. But it needs to:
1) roll a 3+ to hit
2) roll a 5-6 to penetrate (a 4 will just glance)
3) get past any cover you have
4) roll a 5 or 6 to destroy you
If you say that happened, sure. It's possible. But I doubt it happened multiple times across multiple games and if it did - look at the odds again. You're just getting horribly unlucky.
Aside from that, his riptides are the only thing that can really do well against your landraider. They need to:
1) Nova charge and not hurt themselves to boost their ion accelerator to S9
2) Not roll a 1 before firing, as a nova charged ion accelerator has the "gets hot" rule
3) hit you with a blast that's BS3. Likely, but it can miss
4) Roll a 6 on either of 2 dice to penetrate
5) Get past any cover save you have
6) Roll a 5 or 6 on the damage table
See what I mean? A landraider should actually hold up really well unless you get in close and he uses a fusion blaster on you.
Regardless, looking at his army I see a weakness:
Noisemarines
A bunch of S8 AP3 blast cover-ignoring goodness. Or multiple S5 AP4 shots that also ignore cover. A couple squads of these and you'll be blasting his pathfinders, fire warriors, and eldar off the board very quickly.
Aside from these, some autocannon havocs in cover could also do quite well. A bunch of long-ranged S7 AP4 shots. They don't ignore cover, but they'll do a number on fire warriors, the shield drones of the broadsides (thin those out quick), dump wounds on the riptides, etc.
triple-las predators and landraiders can put wounds on riptides quickly, or they can also, once the shield drones are killed by other things like autocannons, insta-kill the broadside suits.
Also, with the riptides: Doing 4/5 wounds to them often shuts them down. People are loathe to try nova charging when they have only 1 wound left. If you can get them to 1 wound remaining before you lose your landraider, that puts them in a really tight spot.
Now the problem with this is that you too are sitting still and just making target priority checks. Unfortunately, that's kind of part of 6th edition. Not everyone has to shoot all the time - but if someone is super shooty, then you're going to have a very difficult time assaulting them across the board. It's just the way it is.
Try this:
Lord with burning brand of skalathrax (killing stuff)
30 cultists
30 cultists
marines or cult marines (if lord is marked)
marines or cult marines (if lord is marked)
landraider, dirge caster
landraider, dirge caster
5 nurgle spawn
5 nurgle spawn
5 nurgle spawn (run these behind the landraiders)
10 noisemarines, 2 blastmasters
10 noisemarines, 2 blastmasters
Tentatively pointing this up, that makes not many points for the troop choices IN the landraiders, but oh well.
Noisemarines sit back in cover outside of broadside and fire warrior range. Rain death. He can't ignore these and has to try to kill them.
SIXTY cultists sit back on objectives and go to ground. Or advance on him behind cover of landraiders. Out of range of most of his shooting, his only option is to try hitting them with riptides or move forward. Otherwise he just doesn't have enough shots to matter - and keep in mind he's also got the noisemarines to worry about.
Landraiders aren't carrying much, but not much need. This gives you two things:
1) Dirge casters prevent overwatch, meaning your spawn can charge in without much worry.
2) They block LOS to your spawn. The only things that can really shoot the spawn therefore are broadside smart missiles, which are only S5 and need 5's to wound. This also keeps them from shooting their main guns, mostly. Also keeps them stationary unless they want to fire snap shots.
3) You can just start tank shocking everything. Tank shock multiple units. His best leadership is 10 for ONE squad, maybe 2. His pathfinders will be leadership 7 and the fire warriors leadership 8. His riptides are not fearless and are only leadership 9. You have the potential to run most of his stuff off the board this way, and most of it can't really hurt you with a death or glory attack.
I run a list that uses a slaanesh lord to make the noisemarines troops, and I run forward with maulerfiends and some slaanesh spawn. The fast targets are ones he can't ignore. Meanwhile the noisemarines are death in a can, and the cultists are just....well they're there. He can't afford to not shoot them (it's hard to win a game when the enemy has two guaranteed objectives held and just has to worry about contesting some others), but they're not the things doing the damage.
You could also run your lord as nurgle, on a bike with a power fist. He can join the spawn. Once you're in combat with a riptide, it's all over. He might do a wound to a spawn, but you'll do a few to him, and they are NOT fearless. Easily run down.
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40k Armies I play:
Glory for Slaanesh!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 10:00:59
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
Arizona
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14 Nurgle Raptors (2 Meltaguns, Sword+Meltabomb on Champion)
14 Nurgle Raptors (2 Meltaguns, Sword+Meltabomb on Champion)
Heldrake (Baleflamer)
2 Chaos Rhinos (Dirge Casters)
2 Black Legion Rhinos (Dirge Casters)
1 Nurgle Obliterator
1 Nurgle Obliterator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
1 Nurgle Mutilator
Sorcerer (Nurgle, meltabomb)
Chaos Lord (Veteran of the Long War, Nurgle, Eye of Night, Powerfist, combimelta, Aura of Dark Glory)
2 units of 5 Chaos Marines
2 unit of 5 Black Legion Chaos Marines (Veterans of the Long War)
Skyshield Landing Pad
This list is illegal. Everything that can have veterans of the long war is required to use it to run black legion.
He is on the right track though. One thing I've discovered does work well against Taudar (and your going to laugh) Kharn the Betrayer and 11 Berzerkers in a land raider in their face turn two.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 10:22:10
Subject: Re:how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Cept for the chaos landraider is 10 model capacity and not 12. Unfortunately, plague marines outperform zerks even in cc and are way more durable while kharn with zercs basically demolish anything they meet in cc and then die in the shooting phase. And they're not cheap. If you like Kharn that much - just take regular marines with ccw - they'll be enough and 30% cheaper even with melta+combi-melta. I've even run regular marines with ccw in a landraider and they did great vs tau. Providing a landraider din't kaboom midfield. Besides, i hid rhinos and a couple of bikes behind it.
What i used for a landraider:
8 csm [bp+ccw, 1 melta], aspiring champion [combi-melta, lc]
Sorc [ml3, force axe, sigil, spell familliar]
It's not the best combo all in all, but they're quite effective against many things including tau. I've tried out icon of excess with MoS for the squad but it's also a not-so cheap upgrade, though helps a bit from time to time.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/24 10:24:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 10:26:19
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Huge Hierodule
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Spawn, Turkeys, LRs, maybe try some warp talons to blind his low init.
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was censored by the ministry of truth |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 10:34:28
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The key is target saturation. You need to get all up in his grill and make him make hard choices about what he has to confront and deal with. For example, start with the above lists and look at what you think you can field. I'll provide an example of what I'm gearing towards for a smack opponent with huge Chaos force attack- CSM- Main Detachment HQ- 1x CSM Lord- Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Blind Fury- 175 Points 1x CSM Lord- Mark of Nurgle, Bike, Sigil of Corruption, Lightning Claw, Power Fist- 165 Points Troops- 10x Cultists- 50 Points 10x Cultists- 50 Points Fast Attack- 5x Spawn, Mark of Nurgle- 190 Points 5x Spawn, Mark of Khorne- 160 Points That's 790 points already. But wait, there's more! Chaos Daemons- Allied Detachment HQ- 1x Skulltaker, Juggernaut of Khorne- 145 Points Troops- 10x Plaguebearers of Nurlge- 90 Points Fast Attack- 20x Flesh Hounds of Khorne- 320 Points 1345. At that point, the rest of the list fleshes out with what I need it to do, such as perhaps taking triple Vindicators or adding in some anti-air or Oblits for classic long range fire support.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/24 10:34:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 10:37:24
Subject: Re:how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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I'd not spend points on MoK for spawns. They're good as they are or with +1 t.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 13:24:19
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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Jancoran wrote:Thats why Ive been tinkering this Night Lord list: to find out how to do melee correctly in 6E. I think I have figured it out though.
Think of it this way. In 5E, the enemy couldn't overwatch and you got UP to a 6" charge (terrain is present a lot in charges).
In 6E, my army makes it so you dont get overwatch... and I get up to 12" charges.
see a difference? =)
How does that work exactly?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 14:30:10
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Dirge casters.
And 6th makes you assault 2d6", so anywhere from 2-12" charge.
He's saying it's like 5th but better as far as his army is concerned.
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40k Armies I play:
Glory for Slaanesh!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 15:15:05
Subject: Re:how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'd advise massing spawn and flesh hounds (codex daemons) and see how that does. Basically anything that has tons of wounds and moves 12". Something like: 5 MoN spawn with PF+LC nurgle lord 5 Unmarked spawn + Jugger Lord with AoBF 5 MoN spawn 20 cultists Allied 1 Herald of Khorne on Juggernaught 20 Flesh Hounds of Khorne 10 daemonettes Reserve the cultists and hope you can tie his army entire army up in combat form turn 2-5. If you have spare points after this in your list you could add: Vindicators (since you said you had some), Maulerfiends, Maybe a squad of plague marines in a landraider (if your pushing 2k). If you can then multi-charge a fire warrior squad and a riptide and then watch as the riptide runs away because of the -10 leadership penalty when you wiped out the fire warriors. Lol
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/24 15:18:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 16:03:58
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I would do something like
Typhus
Cultists/zomb - 20
Cultists/zomb -20
Heldrake x 2
Nurgle oblit x 2
Nurgle oblit x 2
+ DEEMONZ
GUO
Plague Bearers
Soul Grinder Phlegm
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/24 16:25:54
Subject: how do I play CSM vs Taudar?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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jakl277 wrote:I would do something like
Typhus
Cultists/zomb - 20
Cultists/zomb -20
Heldrake x 2
Nurgle oblit x 2
Nurgle oblit x 2
+ DEEMONZ
GUO
Plague Bearers
Soul Grinder Phlegm
Typhus and GUO waddling 6 inches a turn towards a gunline of doom is pretty bad. Deep striking is also suicidal due to the volume of fire you will take and the random turns that they will be arriving. You either need to be charging with 80% of your army on turn 2 or not bother with melee at all and instead have 100+ zombies and 2-3 heldrakes for clearing out your opponents scoring troops.
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