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Greetings

Undertaking my first project with weathering powders/pigments. Want to muck up the treads and surrounding areas of a Rhino. Question is this: should I glosscoat my work prior to applying the powders? I do the glosscoat/dullcoat regiment, but am unsure where the powders fall in the workflow.

Thanks in advance

I'm interested in this, also. I haven't used weathering powders but I have an upcoming project in which I plan to. Anyway, I always thought you used the powders first and then the glosscoats and dullcoat afterward to seal the powders to the model so they don't fall off.

As far as I know you secure the weathering pigments with isopropyl alcohol. I would use a matte varnish over them to make sure they look realistic, a gloss varnish would look kind of "fake" IMO.

Don't gloss coat - the powder needs something to grip to & a gloss finish is too smooth. I either put the powders on the painted surface or use GWs purity seal spray.

Thanks folks, I think I got it!

Plywood_Slayer wrote:
Greetings

Undertaking my first project with weathering powders/pigments. Want to muck up the treads and surrounding areas of a Rhino. Question is this: should I glosscoat my work prior to applying the powders? I do the glosscoat/dullcoat regiment, but am unsure where the powders fall in the workflow.

Thanks in advance

Always apply varnish before weathering. You protect your paint jobs if weathering fails. I have never had any problems using gloss coat before weathering. However I use "Future"/ "Klear" as my gloss coat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmgx2IijrCk&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLTijWbxg2HogqNMLWp1QeFoootIyCT4GK

Powders are generally the final step - paint and seal the model as you normally would (gloss, followed by matte), then move on to the weathering. Isopropyl alcohol works fine as a fixer (for me, at least - some insist on using dedicated products) for display models, but it won't hold up to much handling. For gaming models, a final dusting of matte varnish is usually applied over the "fixed" pigments to really seal them in place. It dulls the effect, somewhat, but I would consider it a necessary evil.

Is there any way that someone can explain "sealing" or "fixing" the powders with alcohol? I'm not sure I understand. I assuming "fixing" in this case means "fixing in place" and not "correcting," right?

Yes that's right - it's fixing in place.
I tend to use the MIG fixer but I'm not happy with the results it gives - the finished surface doesn't take subsequent layers of paint, ink washes or pigment well & I find it darkens the pigments you have put in place. In particular the lighter colours seem to disappear entirely. Left me very confused so I decided not to fix them on the base of my Zhufor as I reckoned that I would never tough that part of the model anyway.
I use white spirit to mix my powders with & then use a finger or ear bud to rub away any excess.
I also try to find pictures showing the sort of weathering I want to create to get the best & realistic results.
You need to work in multiple layers & be patient.
MIG Productions does a couple of dvds which I found really useful as well as another couple by some random UK-based military painters. Look through some of the modelling magazines too as they have some great step-by-step how-to guides.

Couldn't tell you exactly how it works, though. Whether there is some small amount of binding material left by the evaporated alcohol or it somehow affects the state of the powder, it works and that's all we really need to know.

Also, bear in mind that fixing powders with alcohol is a sort of intermediate step. They'll stay in place much better than untreated powder, which rubs off quite easily and can even be blown away, to some degree (especially in thick areas - powder doesn't stick to powder as well as it does to a matte painted/varnished surface). Even fixed powders can still be rubbed off, though, with a bit of concerted effort or simply repeated, even if gentle, wear.

That's where sealing comes in. Alcohol fixing keeps everything in place while you spray a final layer of varnish, which actually soaks into and forms a shell over the pigment, locking it permanently in place. This step isn't necessary in all cases, though, depending on how the pigment is used. If making mud, for example, the pigment is mixed with grit and an acrylic medium that acts as binder/sealer, making further steps unnecessary.

Hmmm... alright so, the general order of operations is...

1) Fully paint the model.
2) Apply powders.
3) Brush on alcohol to fix the powders.
4) After drying, spray with matte varnish.

Right?

The project that I thinking of will be exhaust pipes coming out of an alchemist's lab, so the ends of the pipes will be blackish with all the crap that's coming out. I intend to paint the pipes themselves in copper, and I thought the weathering powders would create a better effect than if I just drybrushed black paint.

I have seen people use a dropper to apply the alcohol. Just don't drop from too high or you might displace the pigments.

Don't paint on the alcohol, just dip the brush in the bottle to load the bristles then gently touch where you've applied the powders. Capillary action will then suck up the the alcohol. You can mix the powders with white spirit or the alcohol & slap it on but for soot I would apply dry with a brush. Try various techniques on a old spare model. You'll quickly get the hang of it - I did! (ish)

Bubber has the right of it. I'll occasionally make up a pigment wash, but I generally apply dry, then let capillary action do most of the work when applying the fixer.

Also, amend your steps, slightly: First is to fully paint and varnish the model. Treat it like it's finished and the pigments are an afterthought. You'll have fewer problems, that way, as alcohol and agitation will strip acrylic before you know it, and you an use a lighter coat to seal your pigments without worrying about the rest of the paintjob's durability.