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Hey all,

So the age of stupidly huge things continues, and I am drawn to consider how to defeat the new Imperial Knight with my ladz. The local gaming groups are all going a bit bananas for them, so I can reasonably expect to come across more than a few. As I see it, the defensive measures that it possesses are as follows:

4++ to one side, chosen per side. Allows you to overwhelm it with enough speed (which we possess, hurrah!)
13/13/12 armour, making it immune to 90% of our guns and massed melee attacks
Powerful in melee, unlike the Riptide, making tarpitting in melee not so viable.
S: D melee weapon, sad times for Warbosses

So, this leaves us with not so many avenues of attack. Rated roughly by my expectation of success:

* Attempt the Shock Attack Gun - I love the model dearly, but I have realistic expectations for him, and tank-busting isn't his forte. (D)
* Lootas - who are terribly vulnerable to its guns, and unlikely to get many HP past (C)
* Powerklaws - should work, but it won't be pretty with needing to get past WS and AV12. A pair of Warbosses on the charge are liable to pull one down, but unit nobz are not going to win many awards here I fear. Unless it is a character then it shouldn't be able to pick out our character models in base, meaning that we can use the Boyz as ablative wounds if required. Main problem is that your opponent will probably try to prevent warbosses from charging in the first place. (B)
* Deffrolla equipped Battlewagons - can do D6 autohits, needing 3+ to glance. Considering that it comes with a melta blast gun, I wouldn't imagine that this would work terribly often. (C)
* The blitza bomba - maybe it will crash nearby and the glare of the explosion will cause the Knight pilot to miss his next shots? (E)
* Big Guns - the Zzap guns are probably not viable for this target, but the Kannons have a shouting chance. At 20pts per S8 shot, you could afford to fire eighteen of them at it and still be winning on points efficiency. However, the FOC rather mitigates against that tactic. If you own them, I suspect that they will prove valuable. (C)
* Deffkoptas/Buggies - not a great chance of hitting, so I'm not confident. I'm generally underwhelmed by Deffkoptas. (D)
* Tank Bustas - well, I actually have to open the codex to find out what these guys do, which isn't a good sign for my estimation of their combat worth. Let's see... Well it looks like their melee rules may actually do a load of damage to one. But more S8 shooting that won't hit doesn't inspire confidence. Probably the Knight gets its 4++ against the Bomb Squig as well. These guys might impress, but I suspect not. (C)

And, of course, the creme de la creme of Imperial Knight hunting:

* STOMPA - When Imperials bring their silly mini-titan, you should bring a scout class titan and show them how it is done. For about double the points you'd expect the Stompa to crush them like the pathetic man-toys that they are, and my wandering eye suggests that it should. Thanks to a KFF and 9HP, you will probably last longer in a shooting match, and you have more guns to boot. This is Escalation only, but I guess that the Knights are Lords of War as well. (A)

Let's have at it guys! Have I overlooked something? Is there any cunning tactics to think of? I didn't touch allies, but it seems that Necrons or Guard offer some potential for AT firepower that may help.

What I said in the other thread:

I Wrote
If I were Knight-hunting as Orks, I'd bring maybe 2 squads of 3-4 Deffkoptas with rockets (wouldn't bother with the Buzzsaw, he'll take them apart in CC before they swing), and hope to get them outflanking from different sides, as the Ion shield can only cover one facing. With the Koptas being T5, none of the Knight's ranged weapons will ID them, and you'll still get jink saves against both, so there's little chance of the squad being killed before they can do much.

As for the Warboss in CC, make sure you put 4 boyz between him and the Knight. That way, they will die to the D-weapon attacks and the Warboss can then rock up and swing. With S10 he's penning on 4s and the Ion Shield doesn't work in CC, and every 'explodes' results does D3 HP, so he should make a mess of it if nothing else. You will lose a lot of Boys in the process, and probably the Warboss, but if you're positioning carefully then he should at least last long enough to swing.

I hadn't considered the SAG, it might work if you're lucky. Dakkajets might work in multiples as you are untouchable by the Knight. Unfortunately, they lack the killing power to do more than dent it from the front.

Stompas are the obvious answer.

Big Guns - the Zzap guns are probably not viable for this target, but the Kannons have a shouting chance. At 20pts per S8 shot, you could afford to fire eighteen of them at it and still be winning on points efficiency. However, the FOC rather mitigates against that tactic. If you own them, I suspect that they will prove valuable. (C)

As if I'd play against a LoW without double force orgs.

The knights are not lords of war mate

Orks really have no serious anti-tank do they?
I should remember to field triple hammerheads if I even encounter orks (not that it differs much from my usual play )

 BoomWolf wrote:
The knights are not lords of war mate

Orks really have no serious anti-tank do they?
I should remember to field triple hammerheads if I even encounter orks (not that it differs much from my usual play )

Orks main reliable AT comes from melee at present. It's only problematic vs Knights because of their melee D weapon. Ordinarily a PK Warboss & some PK Nobz would obviously make scrap out of most vehicles.

In dealing with Knights, the Stompa is yes the obvious shout, however it is very expensive compared to Knights (what is it, about double the price these days?) If you bring FW and/or Dread Mob there are a few other options though - things like Supa Kannons & the Kill Tanks, though the Ion Shield will still come into play in all probability. Still, they give you additional ranged capabilities which may help before you get into melee, especially if you can get them into a crossfire and the KTs are certainly closer in points terms to a Knight than a Stompa.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Thanks to a KFF and 9HP

It's actually 12 HP

Only problem is that, at I1, the Stompa will always swing its CCW last, but at least all those HPs will help it tank some hits.

One thing you might want to try is two powerclaw warbosses in two different trukk boy squads. Each of those squads will have a nob with powerclaw as well. Now add in a MANZ missile trukk.

Nobs are S9 on the charge, the warboss S10. You now have three trukks racing forward with enough ablative wounds if it blows up to still let you heavy hitters get somewhere. If your trukks somehow manage to not get blown up, a boarding plank will allow you to make your HTH attacks and not risk any counter attack for one model.

If the Knights are not characters then they can't challenge, so you really dont have to worry about its strength D melee as you just assign its hits to the boys first.

You still bring lootas to clear the road for the trukks as I'm pretty sure most people will put some sort of screen unit in front of their Knights.

I think stompa is probably the best option. I know what I''m buying next.

DEFFFROOOOOLLLLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 BoomWolf wrote:

In dealing with Knights, the Stompa is yes the obvious shout, however it is very expensive compared to Knights (what is it, about double the price these days?)

On the GW NA site, the stompa is $115.50, and the Knights cost $140.00

Points wise, he means; 660 vs 370.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Points wise, he means; 660 vs 370.

Indeed, and tbh I thought it was more than that in the Escalation book

In points terms, it's an expensive LoW choice compared to Kill Tanks.

Maybe if Kanz could get side Armor with some KMB's (I'd want the AP for the chance of D3 more HP's).. Coupled with Coptas flanking another ARC to force tough choices with that Ion shield.

Considering the model is 330.. You could put 3 Kanz and several TL Rokkit Koptas in the same vacuum for comparison.

If you wanted to field Nobz in a Trukk or Biker Nobz (the mobility to get a side arc). They could get 2.5 HP with 9 Kombi Rokkitz backed up by Ammo Runts, and still have FnP and maybe a Klaw in the group for other purposes.

I don't even want to think about trying to shoot them.. Add this to the list of things we try to ignore while we kill enemy scoring units.

EDIT- can you tarpit him with a boyz blob with a Klaw?

You could tarpit him with a big enough mob, but with Stomp attacks (blasts in CC) you're still only looking at a couple of turns max.

Str : D sad time for warbosses... why?! Tarpit him with tons of boyz! look out sir the stomp attacks Tankbustas for melta bombs! it's low Front armor have several groups charge him at once ... PK nobz!

The Stompa in regular 40k is the best thing for Orks since the advent of 6th edition shelved us.

Ive chopped up Riptides with ease and im itching to try the Knight which will happen when I get the new thing acquired and assembled.

Sure its double the points but its also dbl the Hull points AND it can repair each turn due to the loota squad(s) inside..you did put lootas with Meks inside right?...
Anyhow the Stompa will want to get the charge for sure and it may be a good idea running a retinue of a Kan or two along with a Dread as "escorts" for it...Ive had great success using a Dread and 3 Kans along side my Stompa

Stompas open topped?

Just curious..

!! Put a Mega-Armored Warboss in there with them.. and when it's time for a bucket of dice you can disembark and drown them with S7 Shots with a 2+ Armor save on point.

EDIT; I'm excited for a Stompa but am not getting one until I'm sure ED 7 means nobody is complaining about bringing one.
DOUBLEEDIT; Sometimes I feel like I'm here to ensure tactics is always talking about Orkz somewhere on the front page.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Thanks to a KFF and 9HP

It's actually 12 HP

Only problem is that, at I1, the Stompa will always swing its CCW last, but at least all those HPs will help it tank some hits.

Well, I'd tie up the Knight by a large Ork mob. Game over for him unless he kills enough Orks in the stomping phase.

 Rismonite wrote:
Stompas open topped?

Just curious..

!! Put a Mega-Armored Warboss in there with them.. and when it's time for a bucket of dice you can disembark and drown them with S7 Shots with a 2+ Armor save on point.

EDIT; I'm excited for a Stompa but am not getting one until I'm sure ED 7 means nobody is complaining about bringing one.
DOUBLEEDIT; Sometimes I feel like I'm here to ensure tactics is always talking about Orkz somewhere on the front page.

Stompa aint open topped nope.

I will simply repeat the Skullhamma transporting mega nobz + mega boss against super heavies :3

Yes as the obvious has been said il say it again, I'd just try get as many power klaws into it as possible, easier said than done so you may have to run an especially klaw heavy list if you know you will be up against one. The 3, trukk, 2 Warboss, 2 PK nob, 3 MegaNob and boys to fill in the gaps seem viable, but its never that straight forward with trukks being so un-reliable. if you had a good distraction then maybe.

 Rismonite wrote:

DOUBLEEDIT; Sometimes I feel like I'm here to ensure tactics is always talking about Orkz somewhere on the front page.

You do a good job of it mate, I feel like im always here to read what you have to say.

You know, tankbusta bombs could be mean if you could find a way to get tankbustas there.

 Rismonite wrote:
You know, tankbusta bombs could be mean if you could find a way to get tankbustas there.

Rush em beside a tide.. or battlewagon rush

 phatonic wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
You know, tankbusta bombs could be mean if you could find a way to get tankbustas there.

Rush em beside a tide.. or battlewagon rush

A battlewagon with Tankbustas on both sides of a Stompa carrying Lootas and a barebones MAWB. That kind of mech could certainly draw enough fire to maybe let you get away with some trukkz that actually have the ram, plank, and a PK Nob (hiding a KFF somewhere to hopefully).

Mork help us if they field something we needed better Dakka for though. That and explaining and arguing about Tankbusta rules will get annoying.

"Can you move the battlewagon more than 6" if it denies the Tankbustas a shot on armor?" See every ork is going to want to get them in assault, so moving 12 inches and then flat out really helps us

I know in the spirit of the rule that Mad Dok shouldn't be allowed to move 12" in the wagon if he can disembark and assault. A dangerous precedent considering these two rules seem to have similarities. YMDC material though, and I'm sure it's been talked to death somewhere.

I plan to take them down with tankbustas.
Two squads of twelve each in looted wagons (or Battlewagons, if that's your thing) plus 15 lootas, preferably in a multi-level building.
Now you've got 3 units that can bring it down, which should mess up the opponent's target priority.
Furthermore, those units will also continue to work wonders for you long after they are done with the knight.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
DEFFFROOOOOLLLLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What he said x 4-6.

Cheap solution

TANKBUSTERS they can kill it at the first assault and they are cheap 15pts each

They ain't cheap. First, they need a battlewagon, than they need to get across the board and go through the baublewrap. 15 bustas in a wagon will cost you 325 pts. And last time i've seen them really killing a vehicle in mellee was in 5 ed.

To be honest, i think we have no answer to a knight other than a stompa which will also die and is 2 times more expensive or plain ignoring it.

Stompa aint that easily taken down if you have either A) a group of Spannaboyz or B several loota or burna squads with meks in them innside the stompa to keep repairing + the KFF big mek.
+ grot oilers

I'd say the Deffrollas, Tankbustas, Lootas, and TL Rokkit Koptas/Buggies will be your best bet. Any proper Ork player will bring 20-ish Lootas to any fight. 20 Lootas will average out to 1 wound/glance at a time because the 4++. This means we need spam, Rokkit spam! A squad of Deffkoptas flanking one side, Lootas shoot the front, a Deffrolla, likely with Tankbustas inside, from the other side.

If you got Forgeworld, a Meka-Dread with a Shunta, Grot Battle Tanks with Rokkits, Lifta Droppa (it can hurt vehicles, does that mean it can hurt a super heavy?), Big Trakks, and a Mega Dread will Rokkits/Killkannons can all hurt it.

Personally, I think that a Lifta Droppa is the best bet, if it will work at all. A Deffrolla has to get really close and might get assaulted by the D weapon before it can ever ram.

PS: Don't forget the Stompas, or more specifically, the Kustom Stompa from Forgeworld. You can tailor that thing specifically for killing Knights. Take Deth Kannons and a Deff Arsenal, fill it with Tankbustas (670 + 225). There are some other defensive options but that will really cut into the points for the rest of your army.

Boarding planks/ wrecking balls.

Trukk boy nob with powerklaw/slugga would get 5 attacks on a boarding plank driveby, and would not have to worry about immediate retaliation.

A grabber claw will also get a 4+ chance to stop a knight from moving.

Tankbustas would be useful. You can get 12+3 bomb squigs in a battlewagon with armor plates a zapp gun and 4 rokkits for the cost of 1 knight. A battlecannon armed knight will not have an easy time taking down a av14 vehicle with shooting.

Also its worth noting you can still get cover from a KFF versus a knight army unlike eldar/tau