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 MephistonLoD wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

While I have no opinion on them losing or keeping unique powers I am more curious as to why some BA players feel that they need to keep them. MY DA only have 1 unique power and that is on a special character. Vanilla marines lost all codex powers (now admittily all those powers are in the BRB). Tyranids lost BRB powers but most players are doing fine without biomancy and enjoy the new table just fine (my experience at least). So why is it essential to keep your codex powers? Why not just give Mephy guarenteed unique powers and call it good?

SW I would actually like to keep some of the elemental powers but thats just me

I would like to keep wings, Bloodlance and Shield as they are the most useful but as stated before, dont feel they are necessary. If we give memphy Wings we should be allright.

You're ok with losing Sanguine Sword as well? Please no!

Iron arm on mephiston would be 100% better, a S/T9 psyker with 5 wounds? yes please!
as for other psykers, i only ever use the furylibbies, and theyre s:10 with the bloodfists anyway

There's still that high chance you're not getting Iron Arm... I'll take the guaranteed STR10 at Initiative.

Fair enough, but idds are we're losing special powers as such im fine as long as mephy gets a wings-esque power to troll with. Ive litterally had him kill full health dreads on the charge without the Sword

You ever throw Fear of the Dark and Wings on a libby dread and sent him toward a tau castle (that by its very nature is near the boatd edge, 9 times out of 10 the warlord being in DS with battlesuits)? Watching the fish people run away from the dreadnought boogeyman and off the board is better than watching midgets wrestle hobos for pudding... in pudding. Sure your dread dies, but the spectacle is more than worth it. You can't be seriously suggesting we lose FotD too...

BaalSNAFU wrote:
You ever throw Fear of the Dark and Wings on a libby dread and sent him toward a tau castle (that by its very nature is near the boatd edge, 9 times out of 10 the warlord being in DS with battlesuits)? Watching the fish people run away from the dreadnought boogeyman and off the board is better than watching midgets wrestle hobos for pudding... in pudding. Sure your dread dies, but the spectacle is more than worth it. You can't be seriously suggesting we lose FotD too...

My most common oppinent is DA, with most others being a form of marines as such have actually never used that power...

BaalSNAFU wrote:
You ever throw Fear of the Dark and Wings on a libby dread and sent him toward a tau castle (that by its very nature is near the boatd edge, 9 times out of 10 the warlord being in DS with battlesuits)? Watching the fish people run away from the dreadnought boogeyman and off the board is better than watching midgets wrestle hobos for pudding... in pudding. Sure your dread dies, but the spectacle is more than worth it. You can't be seriously suggesting we lose FotD too...

Yup. Lose all of it to get the discounted libbies.

I'd like to think that being as Mephiston is a hallmark character for Blood Angels maybe they won't mess with him too much but
I'll go out on a limb and say that's wishful thinking. If they gave him FNP 4+, or an invulnerable save I MIGHT be okay with him losing Blood Angels psyker powers. But I feel part of what makes him so powerful is the Sanguine Sword and Wings of Sanguinius.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

alternately, id take giving JP's for free with the option on a reduced point transport as opposed to the point drop.

This. If they handed DC jump packs by default, and offered removal for transport discount, I think they'd be just about perfect right now.

I also have to remind people that DC are not troops. They are elites that take a troop slot so you can fit more elites in. Never ever take them as a compulsory troop choice unless someone literally challenges you to purge the alien.

HAHAHA you talk about fun, man purge the alien with a DC Army its just damn hilarious (or well it was).

However, Before some of the crazier codexs came out (right around Chaos SM release) I was constantly running a Astorath DC/Chaplain Army, it was always funny to watch my opponent look at me deploy and ask how I intended to score? I would just look up laugh and tell them oh..... don't worry that isn't my objective. It would only be after the battle that they realized my intention was to just go and destroy everything 5 attacks on the charge re-rolls of to hit and to wound with a couple hidden Power Swords doesn't leave much standing and with no scoring troops of their own left my opponents often learned too late I was playing for secondary objectives the whole time. I won a lot that way and had my DC frowned upon a lot lol.

My point to all that being , I agree that DC are about where they need to be they just need their points cost brought in line , being that they can't score and you must bring and SC just to unlock more than one unit they aren't actually OP and dang sure not in this new meta.

What do I want from the next BA codex? That it not exist. We need to give them the BT treatment.

Murdius Maximus wrote:
I'd like to think that being as Mephiston is a hallmark character for Blood Angels maybe they won't mess with him too much but
I'll go out on a limb and say that's wishful thinking. If they gave him FNP 4+, or an invulnerable save I MIGHT be okay with him losing Blood Angels psyker powers. But I feel part of what makes him so powerful is the Sanguine Sword and Wings of Sanguinius.

Sanguine Sword isn't as useful on Mephiston as it is on regular BA Librarians, and Wings of Sanguinius could simply be made a specific psychic power or even a special rule for him. Beyond that, I hope they do mess with him a lot as he's pretty bad right now.

 Orblivion wrote:

Murdius Maximus wrote:
I'd like to think that being as Mephiston is a hallmark character for Blood Angels maybe they won't mess with him too much but
I'll go out on a limb and say that's wishful thinking. If they gave him FNP 4+, or an invulnerable save I MIGHT be okay with him losing Blood Angels psyker powers. But I feel part of what makes him so powerful is the Sanguine Sword and Wings of Sanguinius.

Sanguine Sword isn't as useful on Mephiston as it is on regular BA Librarians, and Wings of Sanguinius could simply be made a specific psychic power or even a special rule for him. Beyond that, I hope they do mess with him a lot as he's pretty bad right now.

Yeah he has faults but when I use him he wrecks face. No invulnerable save really sucks I'll give you that but he has proven invaluable to me when I play him. I just play him carefully and he does fine. Sanguine Sword has helped me quite a bit against toughness 5 high can be tricky for my list (still in progress so don't judge lol) and people I play him against seem to have a tough time just hitting him without templates in which case that 2+ save has really come in handy.

 Lobukia wrote:
What do I want from the next BA codex? That it not exist. We need to give them the BT treatment.

How's the fishing!?

Stupid phone ignore this >:|

Mephiston's pricetag and lack if IC status really hurt him. He's still one of the better things in the codex, which is bad.

 Lobukia wrote:
What do I want from the next BA codex? That it not exist. We need to give them the BT treatment.

So utterly gut the army and let it languish in what is effectively development hell for another one or two editions? May I ask why?

So basically, you can fix Mephiston as a standard-lore Librarian by making him an IC and giving him a jump pack? :p

Martel732 wrote:
Mephiston's pricetag and lack if IC status really hurt him. He's still one of the better things in the codex, which is bad.

Not to mention the Freaking Lord of Death (and most powerful psyker in the book who just dusted himself off after a building fell on his head) doesn't have an invuln. At the very, very least that warrants a 3+ FNP.

Also the fact that his S10 sword can shred land raiders with ease, but can't kill the termies inside of it.

All this and he's still 5 pts more than a guy with a 2+/3++ and is too badass for hell...


Also, guys don't feed the trolls.

 Orblivion wrote:

Murdius Maximus wrote:
I'd like to think that being as Mephiston is a hallmark character for Blood Angels maybe they won't mess with him too much but
I'll go out on a limb and say that's wishful thinking. If they gave him FNP 4+, or an invulnerable save I MIGHT be okay with him losing Blood Angels psyker powers. But I feel part of what makes him so powerful is the Sanguine Sword and Wings of Sanguinius.

Sanguine Sword isn't as useful on Mephiston as it is on regular BA Librarians, and Wings of Sanguinius could simply be made a specific psychic power or even a special rule for him. Beyond that, I hope they do mess with him a lot as he's pretty bad right now.

Then brother you must be doing something wrong! Mephiston has won me games, practically on his own a few times... He was pissed about something that day

Against vehicles/MEQs/walkers yea he can wreck shop. Lets ignore the fact that he can be bested by a SM libby with FA/SS that costs all of 75 pts.

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

Murdius Maximus wrote:
I'd like to think that being as Mephiston is a hallmark character for Blood Angels maybe they won't mess with him too much but
I'll go out on a limb and say that's wishful thinking. If they gave him FNP 4+, or an invulnerable save I MIGHT be okay with him losing Blood Angels psyker powers. But I feel part of what makes him so powerful is the Sanguine Sword and Wings of Sanguinius.

Sanguine Sword isn't as useful on Mephiston as it is on regular BA Librarians, and Wings of Sanguinius could simply be made a specific psychic power or even a special rule for him. Beyond that, I hope they do mess with him a lot as he's pretty bad right now.

Then brother you must be doing something wrong! Mephiston has won me games, practically on his own a few times... He was pissed about something that day

I rarely played him at all even before 6th edition, but my point was that there are characters in the game now that do his job better for less points. He needs a rework.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Against vehicles/MEQs/walkers yea he can wreck shop. Lets ignore the fact that he can be bested by a SM libby with FA/SS that costs all of 75 pts.

Odds are he's going to turn that Librarian into paste though.

Some very nice models that I could capture steal for Chaos. I would also like to see more Golden Nipple Armour, because it is hilarious and very fun to laugh at.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Against vehicles/MEQs/walkers yea he can wreck shop. Lets ignore the fact that he can be bested by a SM libby with FA/SS that costs all of 75 pts.

Odds are he's going to turn that Librarian into paste though.

The Libby only needs to pass 5 3++ saves though, and that's if Mephy doesn't flub his Preferred Enemy power (forgot the name). All I'm saying is, that according to the points desparity and the fluff the odds should be hugely stacked in his favor. Much more so than they are anyway. TBH I don't know if that's because PA/SS libbys with smite are such a bargain or because Mephiston seriously needs a few buffs to make him the legendary beatstick he has been since 3rd. I think its the latter, but I've handed out some pretty embarassing ass whoopins with my scars libby when equipped as such.

@ Frozen Ocean, Kneel before thy golden nipples heretic!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Odds are he's going to turn that Librarian into paste though.

Force axe libby in terminator armor would stand an even better chance. If he just doesn't roll a 1 to save, Meph's done.

As soon a 6th hit, Meph went from a monster to a mouse to anyone in 2+. By odds, two hammernators fight him to mutual death, and three bring him down. If he's gonna stay costing 250 points, he definitely needs smash, or an ap2 artifact sword.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Odds are he's going to turn that Librarian into paste though.

Force axe libby in terminator armor would stand an even better chance. If he just doesn't roll a 1 to save, Meph's done.

As soon a 6th hit, Meph went from a monster to a mouse to anyone in 2+. By odds, two hammernators fight him to mutual death, and three bring him down. If he's gonna stay costing 250 points, he definitely needs smash, or an ap2 artifact sword.

I like the idea of the AP2 Artifafact Sword.

So give him a 3+ FNP and an AP2 sword and keep his points where they are? Seems better, but I'm not familiar with all of the other HQ's so I'm not entirely sure what the bar line is...

They should make Mephiston a monstrous creature, they should also give him a 5+ invulnerable save and play up to the idea that his powers may be slightly of the naughy daemonic identity.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They should make Mephiston a monstrous creature, they should also give him a 5+ invulnerable save and play up to the idea that his powers may be slightly of the naughy daemonic identity.

Eh, I'm not a fan of the "is he a daemon?! " part of the fluff.

@Murdius Maximus: 3+ FNP would be overkill IMO.

No need to go nuts. Give Mephiston AP 2 and a 5+ FNP. Leave him with no invun. That's cool with me.

 Orblivion wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They should make Mephiston a monstrous creature, they should also give him a 5+ invulnerable save and play up to the idea that his powers may be slightly of the naughy daemonic identity.

Eh, I'm not a fan of the "is he a daemon?! " part of the fluff.

@Murdius Maximus: 3+ FNP would be overkill IMO.

Agreed.

And yes Mephiston would get crushed against anyone wearing Terminator armour and a AP2 weapon. But I don't take Mephiston to fight Termies or other HQs. The guy absolutely crushes Tau I've decimated entire squads of Battlesuits over and over again with him, and then moving on to tear apart squads of FWs shortly after. When you use him todo the things he's still good at, he always makes his points back... at least in my experience. I agree on the AP2 sword, but not a 3+ FNP. A 4+ Invuln would be more than enough.