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savage

I've seen one discussion about "racism" in WWX, I think it was on BOLS. It was about the DN models, and to put it friendly: the person crying "racism!" didn't even bother to check the actual background of the faction first. It was utter ridiculous. And claiming that the use of the term "savage" for the DN HH is in any form racist is equally ridiculous.

In other news: glad to see the "135K barrier" has finally been broken. There has been some good growth the last two days, and I hope it continues like that.

Hey Darnok, good to see another wwx forum member on dakka as well!

I am super excited for the $135k we just unlocked! Wild Bill looks freaking awesome and I can't wait to see his stats. All four new factions are great but I love the extra loving for the origional 6 factions too.

Now we need to unlock that Wendigo. ......

How did the fur come out on the first kickstarter nation miniatures? I remember the concepts for the wolf and bear guys looked spikey and great but the renders looked a bit rounded and flat, was it more like the concepts?

Joyboozer, if you head on over to the WWX forums and browse the minis project section near the bottom you can see many painted production minis.

The minis painted in their store look just like the production minis. I can say that my WN (all three bosses - wolf, bear, mountain lion) have very well sculpted fur. The legendary sitting bull sculpt is amazing! However it differs in one aspect from the concept art. I have received two minis and both didn't have the detail of the end/tip of his tongue, distinguishing the tip from his gums. Both minis had the tongue and gums ending in one piece of resin. This was fixed with a bit of paint.

The sculpts are better quality than GW, Kingdom Death stuff, etc. Only issue is an occasional miscast but Outlaw minis has great customer service.

 Darnok wrote:
I've seen one discussion about "racism" in WWX, I think it was on BOLS. It was about the DN models, and to put it friendly: the person crying "racism!" didn't even bother to check the actual background of the faction first. It was utter ridiculous. And claiming that the use of the term "savage" for the DN HH is in any form racist is equally ridiculous.

Around here we call this type of thing "Diet Racism" - it's not enough for the general populace to cry foul, but it has just enough to be stereotypical, offensive, or disrespectful to those that are more sensitive to the subject. Usually the person doing it doesn't know their racist tendencies (which we all have to some extent) or how stereotypical they're being.

I get the background and concept of the Dark Nation is that they are stuck in a form between man and beast, and I like that bit of fluff, but with an over-pronounced underbite, what kind of beast is that supposed to be? A warthog? with claws? They look more like derpy emaciated orcs than half-beast.

"Savages"? accurate in this case? Probably. Does if have negative historical connotations and prop up old stereotypes? Yes.

Calling your first mexican unit "Dirt Farmers" and making them all have sombreros (totally impractical in battle). Stereotypical? Absolutely.

Full blown racism? No. "Diet Racism"? Yep.

We can get into "Diet Sexism" too, but that one should be obvious.

Anyway, I've always felt WWX could be a good game but has always been a bit off (owner's missteps aside). The concept is cool, a lot of the fluff ideas are cool, but I feel the game could have really used proper art direction. Not only would it catch things like "Diet Racism", but also give it a more cohesive look. I liked a lot of the first 4 factions initial releases, but it seemed like things started jumping the shark. Things started having rivets for the sake of having rivets. Models started turning into almost pure sci-fi models with a cowboy hat thrown on (with rivets on it). Now we have aliens that don't look like they fit in. The confederates (whom I was really hoping for after hearing their fluff) look like futuristic soldiers with carapace armor with an occasional civil war hat added.

Sorry for the rant, guess I needed to vomit.

Diet any ism shouldn't be encouraged, all it does is hamper creativity to pander to the easily offended who most likely won't partake in the product to begin with. Stereotypes and tropes exist for a good reason. If your "diet isms" were off limits we'd have far fewer and far less interesting products to entertain us.

Still in for my starter + 2 sets, and adding more for friends who were sold by the quality of the first kickstarter pledge I received. Hard to convince them to go in for deadzone when the quality of wwx was absolutely flawless whereas Mantic... I still love them ; p

Everyone salute when an officer enters the room!

Major Stallage!!!




This one's in a serious lull - it could be that there's the March Kickstarter Overload effect here - or is it something else?

Maybe these 4 new factions just aren't as appealing as the original set?

wow... how much time is left on it?

Six days, I think?

These sets are not as appealing to me, so I think that's part of it. KS overload, sure. March KS madness, yes.

But, to be fair, I think this KS is ONLY for current WWX players. There's nothing that intrigues me enough to want to start the game. The models are not that interesting, the 4 armies here have no appeal to me. The price is not KS buckets of minis!1!!1

Like carboncopy, I wanted to like this game for the setting, but the models are just a little off, the concepts just miss, the company is just unfriendly enough, and I really dislike the advanced level sic-fi that is becoming rampant in the setting.

Only my opinions. Like I said, I wanted to like this game, but there's been just enough of the little things to keep me (and my money) out.

I hit the first KS but think ill pass on this one.
I had high hopes for the confederate rebellion but I wanted something a little more johny reb and a lot less star wars endor rebel.

I wanted giant monsters but I don't think this is going to reach that level.

Plus they didn't seem to keen on letting people pledge just for add ons. At least early on.

I'll wait and see how things look when the reminders start flying out. Maybe this will pick up a bit more steam.

I'm sure there will be more pledges at the end. Its definitely the KS way.

I also see the 15 day KS becoming more of a thing. These long lulls in the middle of these 30 day KS campaigns always look bad and can lead to people fleeing the project just because of the lull. Look at The Edge for another example.

Took a look at the first kickstarter to compare with this one. Biggest difference seems to be that many of the stretch goals in the first KS became feebies in the higher ($220+) pledge levels which drove people to pledge higher and higher to unlock stuff that could be added to their pledge as freebies. This KS has no more freebies in the stretch goals (I don't count patch/dice since they are not minis), so there is not nearly the incentive to drive the total higher. This is probably the reason that this KS is flat and will likely stay flat until the end. There may be a small bump at the end, but there just isn't the incentive to kick it into gear.

Maybe Outlaw's okay with that?

I don't get it. They've got plans going well past half a million, but like you said, there doesn't seem to be as much incentive this time around to pledge super huge.

I always kicked myself about missing the first campaign, because like you said, those higher level pledges ended up with a crap ton of goodies. I had hoped for something similar this time as well.

Yeah, their 'plans' didn't mesh well with the campaign 'reality' that showed up!

I am not really sure where everyone is getting the idea of not a lot of models. I mean if you consider this is all plastic and hard resin you are getting a lot. I am in for a 2 faction bundle and for each faction you get 20 hire hands, a boss, underboss and two sidekicks as well as a dark council mini (not including books or anything). So for each bundle the bare minimum you are getting is 25 minis. That is not including if you get the book deal/ tokens. It is about $65 per bundle so slightly less than $3 a mini. That is not bad at all in my eyes. I mean it is not Mantic level but I back/haved backed Mantic projects and I know the quality is not even remotely comparable.

This is my first foray into WWX as a new player but I have seen the models so I know the quality is there. To me the value is also there but I suppose for some it isn't. Fair enough.

Was someone complaining about the 'lack of models'?

I don't think anyone was, but maybe I missed it?

I think the issues (if there is one) here are:

1) Not much appeal for people who backed the first KS/collect the first group of factions?

2) The 'new 4' factions here not being as appealing as Outlaw thought?

3) Too much SF, not enough Ol' West?

4) Something else?

To be fair, Clockwork, that second set of 10 Hired Hands wasn't originally going to be added to everyone's pledges; it wasn't until the KS flat lined that the change was made to throw on an extra sprue of plastic.

I'm not interested in the campaign, beyond the purely personal reasons of them actively not wanting my business to a downright childish degree, because it's unnecessary. The game is literally a year old, if you consider time starting from when the models first got into people's hands. Adding 4 more factions to an already-unbalanced game, on top of reneging on the plan of this KS *also* being a platform for 2.0 of the rules, does not inspire confidence. This is just a year long pre-order, and when people get their models the rules are going to change inside of 6 months to a year (assuming the company is still in full operation at that time).

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
the purely personal reasons of them actively not wanting my business to a downright childish degree

More on this please? I remember you from the WWX forums - what happened?

This kickstarter is a great deal. The first kickstarter was similar in that they gave major discounts and some freebies, which I am ok with. For the quality of the minis (both plastic and resin) I would expect to get less than the bucket of minis one gets with myth, blood rage, zombicide, etc. This is a tabletop wargame/skirmish game and not a board game after all.

I think this ks is not doing as well due to the limited factions. The origional kickstarter's purpose was creating a game, this kickstarter's purpose is adding factions to the game. I know people who want to get into wwx but want to play lawmen, outlaws, holy order, etc. This kickstarter appeals mainly to those interested in these four factions and completionists/fanatics like myself.

I also agree with usernamesareannoying; i loved the idea of playing alternate universe civil war and was hoping for more uniformed confederates. I still love them (favorite army of the new four), but I wish they were less rag tag cloakish (though i love the hit and run style) and more gray/brown uniforms with armor that is battered due to losing the war.

At the end of the day us backers are still getting one heck of a deal, four new armies, new characters for the origional factions, and they will ultimately release the big beasties if we don't unlock them.

I say to those who dropped their pledges or havent pledged, you are missing out on a great thing! Don't be like those who missed the first kickstarter, missing massive discounts, freebies, and exclusives!

ClockworkChaos wrote:
I am not really sure where everyone is getting the idea of not a lot of models.

Don't think anyone is saying that. My post was speculation on why this KS is not doing as well as the last one. I posted the same post in the KS comments.

Outlaw responded (indirectly) with:

"Outlaw Miniatures, LLC about 1 hour ago

@everyone,

We just want to point out a few facts to set the record straight. Many of you are asking for more free stuff or for free things like the first kickstarter for WWX. The fact is that the first kickstarter was completely and totally a badly run campaign by us.

I will take full responsibility and say right now that because of all the free things we gave away it almost bankrupted our company. If it was not for me to personally clean out my savings account we would have never delivered any of the items and we would have failed as a business.

With that said the choices and decisions made this time around are based on facts, sales, costs, 2 years of doing business, and the unknown issues that always come up. "

CR = Browncoats. Nuff said!

 Darnok wrote:
CR = Browncoats. Nuff said!

Had not looked at them from that point of view. (Looks at CR) Perhaps Browncloaks... but not Browncoats...

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
I hit the first KS but think ill pass on this one.
I had high hopes for the confederate rebellion but I wanted something a little more johny reb and a lot less star wars endor rebel.

This. When the CR were announced I was assuming that I would be getting them, but after seeing the renders they are not really interesting enough to me for WWX. Way too neat and consistent for a rebel underground. On the other hand, I am always looking for possible cultists models and the CR would work (with light conversion and a few head swaps) for an interesting renegade Guard unit.
With mods, they would probably work for Necromunda as well.

I like the Golden Army characters and figs, but ALL the hired hands having Sombreros is a turn off.
Dark Nation figs are nice but the heads with the long jaws have to go. Again, with mods and some head swaps, these will become very cool cultists.
Watcher grays are nice, but the sidekicks and bosses, not so much.

I'm in at Gambler, but if some of the issues above had been fixed/different, I would have gone in much heavier. As it is most of what I will be getting will be for other games, not WWX.

Its odd that there are no $400 - $500 pledge levels in this KS. People that go in to a KS heavy often go for pledges in this range.

timd wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
CR = Browncoats. Nuff said!

Had not looked at them from that point of view. (Looks at CR) Perhaps Browncloaks... but not Browncoats...

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
I hit the first KS but think ill pass on this one.
I had high hopes for the confederate rebellion but I wanted something a little more johny reb and a lot less star wars endor rebel.

This. When the CR were announced I was assuming that I would be getting them, but after seeing the renders they are not really interesting enough to me for WWX. Way too neat and consistent for a rebel underground. On the other hand, I am always looking for possible cultists models and the CR would work (with light conversion and a few head swaps) for and interesting renegade Guard unit.
With mods, they would probably work for Necromunda as well.

I like the Golden Army charchters and figs, but ALL the hired hands having Sombreros is a turn off.
Dark Nation figs are nice but the heads with the long jaws have to go. Again, with mods and some head swaps, these will become very cool cultists.
Watcher grays are nice, but the sidekicks and bosses, not so much.

I'm in at Gambler, but if some of the issues above had been fixed/different, I would have gone in much heavier. As it is most of what I will be getting will be for other games, not WWX.

Its odd that there are no $400 - $500 pledge levels in this KS. People that go in to a KS heavy often go for pledges in this range.

You probably already know this, but WWX figs are on the large side - definitely 32mm to 35mm.

I initially pledged a few hundred pounds but as its went on none of the new forces have really grabbed my attention so I pulled out, hell I even got rid of my first lot of stuff. I may get into it again and just get outlaws as and when I can but there just hasnt been enough support. The only thing I like about the KS currently is the not deadpool cowboy but if I just pledge for him its 28 dollars which I just have no interest in. I want the game to succeed especially here in the UK but the KS just isnt for me or even the game currently but I will pick it up again in a year or so when/ if the UK gets it more than where its available now

 Alpharius wrote:


You probably already know this, but WWX figs are on the large side - definitely 32mm to 35mm.

Yes, I have lots of figs from the first KS, although I have not assembled many of them. So they will be big cultists... not a problem. Human body height and size ranges are wide enough to get away with using a lot of different model ranges side by side. Example: I'm 5'-5". My buddy is 6'-7". That is a 20% height difference. Assuming a 5'-10" tall 28mm figure to be 30mm tall, 20% gives a height range of 28-34mm for 28mm scale figures.

Motograter wrote:
I want the game to succeed especially here in the UK

From their actions they don't seem to care much for the UK or Europe market, or they would treat the retailers over here differently. They don't, so yeah...

 Darnok wrote:

Motograter wrote:
I want the game to succeed especially here in the UK

From their actions they don't seem to care much for the UK or Europe market, or they would treat the retailers over here differently. They don't, so yeah...

Yes I have noticed there isnt many. Wayland who i`d never use in a million years and dark sphere who after their ridiculous shipping costs kills any savings. Well with any luck in a year or so WWX may have made some footsteps in sorting out their issues.....