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Seems like I've finally got to know the more charming sides of Romeo. To make it short: I'll no longer have a nice word to say about the company. The game is still nice, as is the background. The models are top-notch.

Getting their stuff anywhere but on their own online store is a chore though, especially outside of the US. They're expensive, and their "retailer support" is marketing BS - the one store in Germany having the range in stock did not only stop to do so because of unfavourable $/€ rates and custums/P&P issues, but also because of the complete lack of support from Outlaw Miniatures.

And the head of the company is a complete .


P.S.: I'd love to settle the issue via the WWX forums - but my account there just got deleted. Without a word of warning, after supporting them through both of their KS campaigns and inbetween. Excellent style.

Browncoats!!!!!!

Yes! I had not thought of them in that way. The confederates were my second favorite faction (tied with outlaws but second to lawmen); I like the confederates more than ever now. Lets see, they also lost the war against the alliance... er I mean union, and are fighting back guerilla style now.

I have a merchant underboss and a sidekick of his that would like to join my confederate army this coming winter

That's one thing I love about wwx, it fits the firefly theme perfectly and vice versa with its own unique work and twists

Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

I heard years ago Romeo had a bad rep but some folks just do.

Has it escalated that much? Kicked off the forums seems rather petty for them to do that

That is one thing that seems to be a universal agreement. Romeo seems to have a terrible personality.

Honestly I think the best two things Outlaw could do to really make things fly is improve their distrubution (get a middle man and let the doors to Europe open! Spread the game! I do not know if it is cause they are still small but they need to do this). Second is Romeo needs to have his personality fixed. I have no heard a single nice thing about him. Rubbing people the wrong way does not help a KS. Maybe a swift kick to the head by one of his fellow employees...

That being said I still really like the system and if those changes were made I would be overjoyed. The idea about the browncoats is also really cool. Thanks!

Motograter wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

Follow the comments from this one onwards. If you are interested in my previous KS comments history, look here.

I'm well aware that I'm not sugarcoating anything, but overall I've been very supportive of both this and the last WWX KS. Sadly you can't read any of my posts in the WWX forums anymore - they're deleted (without any comment, by the way). I think Romeos reactions are unfair, and downright bullying.

But yeah, he's got a new "friend" now. And I thought only GW was competent at driving loyal customers away in no time...


P.S.: Sad thing is: I still like the game, the background, the models. Currently I'm not willing to throw any more money in their direction though...

Alright wow. Thats somewhat pathetic to be honest. Some of the "fans" don`t seem t obe much better either.

Well as much as I like the game and background etc i`m glad I pulled out my pledge and sold off my other stuff. Almost makes GW look bearable

Welcome to the club, Darnok!

Kickstarter comments sections usually leave a lot to be desired.

The format is awful and the fact that they're unmoderated, for the most part, doesn't really help either.

My sympathies Darnok.

People get hot headed about things they're passionate about. Happens to all of us.

All of us except those people who ran that Ice Age Animals Kickstarter and clogged my inbox with all sorts of wonderful comments for continuing to ask them to show samples of their figures.

Those were fun times.

Deja Vu all over again. It seems everytime I peek in on the WWX forums, someone is getting banned. It's now a ghost town over there. Just be careful to not make too much of a stink, he might try to sue you. Only half-joking.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/

Oh wait, that didn't quite work out for Romeo after the last kickstarter, or any of the other times he's tried to sue people...

The guy has a long history of flipping out, making threats against people and trying to sue people or companies, even back when his now foam-cutting lasers used to cut baseball bats: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplecontroversy011809

carboncopy wrote:
Deja Vu all over again. It seems everytime I peek in on the WWX forums, someone is getting banned. It's now a ghost town over there. Just be careful to not make too much of a stink, he might try to sue you. Only half-joking.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/

Oh wait, that didn't quite work out for Romeo after the last kickstarter, or any of the other times he's tried to sue people...

The guy has a long history of flipping out, making threats against people and trying to sue people or companies, even back when his now foam-cutting lasers used to cut baseball bats: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maplecontroversy011809

Does he make any good choices? I mean Outlaw seems to be doing ok and its got a great product but man... he doesn't seem like the type of person that should be running it.... sigh.

Also for the comments section, honestly I think both parties are in the wrong but then again I believe swearing is a petty thing to do regardless of the situation (unless like your house explodes and your outside say WTF?, that would be very reasonable). KS comments are never a good place to visit unless you want to become depressed.

This isn't just KS comments, though. This has persisted on their forums, Facebook, etc.

It's a shame, too. The idea behind the game really is neat, and the models are nice. The game is fun, if unpolished (nearly plagiarizing rulebooks from other game systems for the majority of its more important mechanics aside) and badly in need of an editor. Oh well.

The biggest shame of this whole thing is that it was done in public, showing "dirty laundry" to everyone. I usually tend to stay away from the kickstarter message boards as people tend to become overzealous, and things like what happened are all too common. I have already been called different things in both the wwx and myth message boards "by accident" - person meant to address someone else but addressed me in their fit of rage - but whatever, sticks and stones.

I believe kickstarter should hire some folks to be moderators as they have a strict policy on the message boards. Their policy is no name calling/swearing, no personal attacks, and no attacking project creators (made to safeguard those who are trying to get a product off the ground whether the backers agree with the product or not). I have seen way to many people violate those rules in many different boards (blood rage board - wowzers). According to kickstarter, constructive criticism 'can' be seen as an attack on a creator even though it is not meant to be.

Anywho....

I don't think WWX is unpolished. I have been gaming for almost two decades and found wild west exodus to be very balanced, smooth running, and easy to understand/learn. I have taught several people how to play and they understand the game clearly... so I wouldn't say it is unpolished. They actually enjoyed the game so much that they left other gaming systems to get into wwx.

As for the rules being borrowed, yes there are portions of the game that seem borrowed. However, if you look at pretty much any table top war game or skirmish game using dice/rulers, they pretty much all share the same basic concepts (batman, wwx, infinity, warhammer, 40k, dust, etc).

WWX has many things that differentiate the game from most games as well, such as how they use the influence system, their unit card design (stats and how they are used), D10's, activations, special rules, and how detailed the game is (can go prone, climb, jump, etc... many things you can't do in dumbed down warhammer 40k or warmahordes). Personally I think WWX is unique enough that I have kept it as one of my 4 major wargaming systems -wwx, batman, dust, 40k. (downsizing from 15 different wargames... not enough time).

I think that the success of WWX stands for itself. In a short amount of time the company (which is financially healthy) created a game from nothing, added TONS of new units each month, added more factions, and is now adding four more factions! WWX may not be in every FLGS, but I know most adults are playing it on their own tables in their basements with their friends

 Darnok wrote:

Motograter wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

Follow the comments from this one onwards. If you are interested in my previous KS comments history, look here.

I'm well aware that I'm not sugarcoating anything, but overall I've been very supportive of both this and the last WWX KS. Sadly you can't read any of my posts in the WWX forums anymore - they're deleted (without any comment, by the way). I think Romeos reactions are unfair, and downright bullying.

But yeah, he's got a new "friend" now. And I thought only GW was competent at driving loyal customers away in no time...


P.S.: Sad thing is: I still like the game, the background, the models. Currently I'm not willing to throw any more money in their direction though...

Darnoks beard

Pugnacious_Cee wrote:Welcome to the club, Darnok!

I'm still curious about your story.

And at least you weren't deleted from their forums without warning or explaination...

carboncopy wrote:Deja Vu all over again. It seems everytime I peek in on the WWX forums, someone is getting banned. It's now a ghost town over there. Just be careful to not make too much of a stink, he might try to sue you. Only half-joking.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526744.page
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/03/07/meat-meta-bad-battlefoam-practices/

Most enlightening, thanks for digging out those links. At least I'm not an "accident" then...

Joyboozer wrote:Darnoks beard

I still don't get it.

 Darnok wrote:

Motograter wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
Just hours ago I would have replied to that with lots of enthusiasm. Not anymore...

Whats happened?

Follow the comments from this one onwards. If you are interested in my previous KS comments history, look here.

I'm well aware that I'm not sugarcoating anything, but overall I've been very supportive of both this and the last WWX KS. Sadly you can't read any of my posts in the WWX forums anymore - they're deleted (without any comment, by the way). I think Romeos reactions are unfair, and downright bullying.

But yeah, he's got a new "friend" now. And I thought only GW was competent at driving loyal customers away in no time...


P.S.: Sad thing is: I still like the game, the background, the models. Currently I'm not willing to throw any more money in their direction though...

I don't know the full history of what has gone on, but honestly I feel your comments could of been worded differently to provide the same input while seeming less hostile. I'm no fan of Romeo but the other people working at Outlaw don't deserve the vitriol thrown their way intended for Romeo. it seems that people forget that.

 455_PWR wrote:

I think that the success of WWX stands for itself. In a short amount of time the company (which is financially healthy) created a game from nothing, added TONS of new units each month, added more factions, and is now adding four more factions! WWX may not be in every FLGS, but I know most adults are playing it on their own tables in their basements with their friends

It depends on what you mean by success I guess. I suspect that WWX is losing more money than its making or at least has grown stale. Romeo stated on a few different podcasts that he would never do another kickstarter because it should only be for starting a project and is unfair to retailers. But here we are. Most of all Kickstarters severely cut into profit margins - offering greatly reduced pricings, reduced or free shipping, and the 10% Amazon/Kickstarter cut. Given the current WWX self-distribution methods, I suspect he's very big on those profit margins.

At this point he's probably losing more money than making on the KS, so I think the main purpose of this is an attempt to breathe some life into the game, and given the initial list of lofty stretch goals, was really counting on it to explode.

I wouldn't be surprised if the plug was pulled if things start to slide backward, even if it's well over funding, however it seems it's too much of a pet project, a dream, for him to do that without at least giving it another go at a less crowded KS time.

Gotta say I am a little disheartened with the comments, I had my first game of WWX and thought it was great fun and so based off that purchased the 2 player starter box and a 3rd faction starter set. Starting to think I should have sat on the fence for a while....still got it through Wayland so I probably have a few months till I receive any thing lol.

Daston, dont let the naysayers or the few negative comments get you down. If you liked the game and thought it was great fun... well, isn't that why we buy and collect games?

I have heard far more good than bad about the game. Many people talking bad have played it once or twice (or not at all), wanted a 40k sized community from the start, and many don't even own wwx stuff. Some people want to see drama, and games they don't participate in fail. I got into the game by myself, bought tons, started introducing others to the game as I found it was great fun and enjoyed the theme, and now I still enjoy it with my own little wwx gaming community that meets in my basement on a regular basis (we have 40k nights and wwx nights).

I have also seen negative comments since wwx's beginning. I have found the creators to be very open and involved in the wwx community; I cant complain about them as they have been very good to me and the community from what I have seen. They have made models off community suggestions, updated stats according to suggestions, have the best customer service ive seen, etc. People also said the stuff is expensive but i have less stuck into this game (i own at least one of everything including the train) than i have in 40k by thousands! My group has found the game to be very unique, fast, and smooth (again, naysayers will disagree). The company is also doing very well, just look at how many new units and factions they have produced since the first kickstarter, but naysayers will disagree even though the evidence is in from of us all.

You liked the game, you had fun playing it... then run with it, enjoy it, and play with your family and friends! Who cares what a few naysayers post on the interweb!

While the game is good, the company and owner are questionable and they do nothing to support the game outside the usa. Currently only wayland have it and we all know how awful they are. Dark Sphere are starting to stock it but once their initial order dries up there is no guarantee outlaw will help them. A lot of European shops that stocked it gave up on it as there is no help from outlaw in any way, shape or form. Good luck getting stock if youre not in the US

Motograter wrote:
While the game is good, the company and owner are questionable and they do nothing to support the game outside the usa. Currently only wayland have it and we all know how awful they are. Dark Sphere are starting to stock it but once their initial order dries up there is no guarantee outlaw will help them. A lot of European shops that stocked it gave up on it as there is no help from outlaw in any way, shape or form. Good luck getting stock if youre not in the US

This, so very much. Which is a real shame.

Valid points guys....now will Wayland deliver stuff before the kick starter place your bets.

Seems like Romeo is still entrenched in his paranoid world view:

Outlaw (aka Romeo) in the KS comments wrote:Somehow it seems the haters are winning based on what we are reading on forums such as Dakka Dakka and others. Don't know how and why people are so negative against our game but it is what it is.

Dear Romeo: there is a difference between not liking you and your product. Pretty much everyone likes the game, and is supportive of it - it's there, you just have to read. Liking you though? Not so much.

I haven't really seen anything negative about the game at all. Heard nothing but good things.

People behind the game however...

I'm still sore I have to pledge for an entire faction if I just want a big giant monster. Looks like I'm going to need to wait on the big giant monsters anyways, but that gives my wallet a chance to recover anyways.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I haven't really seen anything negative about the game at all. Heard nothing but good things.

Same here - I'd like to know where they're reading all the negative stuff...

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I haven't really seen anything negative about the game at all. Heard nothing but good things.

People behind the game however...

I'm still sore I have to pledge for an entire faction if I just want a big giant monster. Looks like I'm going to need to wait on the big giant monsters anyways, but that gives my wallet a chance to recover anyways.

Fully agreed on the first point. I think it is down to "people like to put labels on everything". So when they like something, and don't share their obsession to the letter, you are automatically a "whiner" or "hater" or posting "only negativity". Makes sense from the psychological side of things, but makes them also look like idiots...

On the second point: which monster are you talking about? The Snake is available as add-on, and not bound to any pledge levels. Same for the bigger DN models so far. TO be honest I don't see anything big at all that is bound to a faction bundle...

Nothing is bound by faction bundle big monster wise. You could pledge as little as you like and just buy a single thing if you want. You dont have to buy a faction unless you want too.

Personally I think they have shot themselves in the foot. I dont see it breaking 150k. It might not even get that high. Yeah the last 2 days may get a bump up but currently its dying on its ass. There just isnt enough interest

What I meant was (and correct me if I'm wrong) when the campaign first started, there was no a la carte pledge. Lowest you could pledge was for a faction and add ons.

I see there's an a la carte pledge now that covers shipping. I really like that Windigo for the Dark Nation. Considering his price, that thing must be massive! I guess I'll be having to keep an eye on Outlaw's web page.

I still may pledge and get Avonaco, especially if the figure is going to look like the redone artwork, holding the gun rather than just lugging it around.

Dang. Romeo sounds like Kevin's same-alignment twin brother.

If someone acts non-professionally towards their potential backes and customers, you gotta wonder how well they work with their employees, suppliers, distributors, and retailers.

Wait for retail.