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Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





near Olympia, WA.

 Mavlun wrote:
 GuardRalph wrote:
Vulkan in some Necron's trophy case? That has to be a very powerful dude. And I don't see it.


I don't think he'd need to be all that powerful to have caught a Primarch. You're making the mistake of imagining there had to be some sort of 1 on 1 fight (which in reality Trazyn's MSS could win for him), when in truth he has such technology that a capture is just a capture. You can be the strongest, most powerful goldfish in the world. Still not going to get out of that fish bowl though.

Even if that's Vulkan, the more impressive display is the last high council of the Idharae Craftworld.


I get that necro-tech is all crazy and super awesome. We are talking about a primarch is this case, a demigod.
Even the Craftworld council are effectively mortal (as eldar could be). And could be out done buy "a super duper crazy, smart, techy robot".

"… I hate donkey caves who design their armies with the sole purpose of crushing their opponent as fast as possible & with the least amount of actual effort required. It's a game of toy soldiers, yet for some people, it seems to be how they measure the true size of their penis." Experiment 626

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sounds silly but I've found my models perform better in games when they've had a lick of paint on them!
 
   
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Hallowed Canoness





Between

Primarchs aren't literal demigods, you know. They're just genetically modified humans, no more inherently divine than Eldar.



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
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Boosting Space Marine Biker





Stoke on trent

I doubt it's vulkan tbh it just wouldn't fit the fluff world well.

As for a Demi god I am sure vulkan is most deserving of that tital (next to Magnus on power and sanguinis on appearance) because of his perpetual nature and massive strength
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




What the heck evidence is there that it's Vulkan? So far the current situation (which is admittingly changeable as events progress) is that Vulkan's in a casket/coffin labelled the Unbound Flame (which is one of the artifacts the Salamanders is looking for, although they don't know it's Vulkan).

If Trazyn really had Vulkan, he'd probably be on display in that casket or the casket would be mentioned somewhere, I think.

Maybe they think it's Vulkan because Trazyn keeps trolling the Salamanders claiming he owns a different Vulkan artifact, but thinking he has Vulkan just because of that seems like a stretch to me.

Personally IMHO if he did have a primarch at all, I think Ferrus would thematically make the most sense due to his probable Necron connection with his hands as well as provide a somewhat more plausible way of bringing Ferrus back via Necron repair technology (Only Sanguinus has no legends of him returning). He can then like, have the moniker, "The Iron Head" or whatever. Perhaps he's still headless, unless Trazyn managed to nab the head from Abaddon/Horus or he's still seeking the head to finish the piece (which would be funny and could lead to a nice Trazyn vs Abaddon battle). The rest of the Primarchs IMHO already have their own narrative conventions for what they're doing and what it'll take to get them back to the Imperium if they're still alive.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/28 15:45:00


 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Primarchs aren't literal demigods, you know. They're just genetically modified humans, no more inherently divine than Eldar.


Well except for whatever the Emperor did to mess up and create Magnus and Vulkan (although to be honest the primarchs are very unreliable in scope varying in power level. Still, it took breaking himself but Angron has lifted up a warhound titan and carved himself out of being caved in. Magnus is Magnus and does whatever he does, Vulkan is a perpetual and punches stuff with oomph, and Lorgar shields himself from a titan blast and mentally dominates Huron from across the galaxy. Plus it seems implied that all of the primarchs are psykers (whether they admit it or not is a different story. Oh yeah, and doesn't fulgrim have super fast regineration and the sorts?)

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I can kind of see the Primarchs returning in time to 40k

I mean who doesn't want to be able to take their primarch onto the battlefield and with the introduction of more and more super heavys and high point games the fact they would need to be 200pt + nigh on unkillable units would probably not worry many players.

The fluff has been introducing more and more of these god like characters over the past few years, Necrons with their C'Tan, Eldar with 'the old ones' and so on.

There is no reason GW couldn't give every army a god like character unit -

SM and CSM - Primarchs
Necrons - C'Tan
Eldar - Old one
Dark Eldar - Something spikey!
Orks - Gork or Mork
Sisters - Maybe one of the original 8 Astartes of the Inquisition
Imperial Guard - Saints possibley?

The only one I'm stuck on is the Tau but they could just have a huge battlesuit!

3000 Points - Right Hands of the Emperor, Imperial Fists Successor
1000 Points - Right Hands of the Emperor Elite PDF force
Bolt Action 1500 pts US Army
Bolt Action 1000 pts US Airborne
X Wing - Giant rebel fleet
Halo Fleet Battles - 1000 pt UNSC Force, 1000 pt Covenant Force

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Made in us
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The darkness between the stars

 Mavlun wrote:
 GuardRalph wrote:
Vulkan in some Necron's trophy case? That has to be a very powerful dude. And I don't see it.


I don't think he'd need to be all that powerful to have caught a Primarch. You're making the mistake of imagining there had to be some sort of 1 on 1 fight (which in reality Trazyn's MSS could win for him), when in truth he has such technology that a capture is just a capture. You can be the strongest, most powerful goldfish in the world. Still not going to get out of that fish bowl though.

Even if that's Vulkan, the more impressive display is the last high council of the Idharae Craftworld.


Which is exactly why it isn't Vulkan. How would Vulkan be second place to such a low place high council. Vulkan is a salamander that, if you cut off his limb, it heals back up. He's a perpetual that only a few (plot device) weapons can defeat his (super plot armour) immortality. Plus he is only one out of a total of 20 primarchs. Two of which nobody has any clue of, four of which that are dead for good, three with bad implications of their current state, Gulliman whom can't be captured, and six of which are daemon princes and thus can't really get captured because *warp fizzles away*. Two last things, we know not how MSS would function against Vulkan. We can't use TT rules on this sense then we'd have to explain MSS daemons. Secondly, Vulkan is, as of currently, in a casket which makes it very unlikely that he is the same individual.

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Carrickfergus, Northern Ireland

Everything is "baroque" in 40k. Well, anything Imperial.

Sieg Zeon!

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 Pilau Rice wrote:
It's the Emperor in Trazyns collection

IA: Space Wolves
Time seemed to stop as the Emperor of Mankind threw away his cloak, the hood falling from his face, his true form revealed. Standing far taller than any man present. swathed in light and clad in baroque golden armour.




Well... Then who's projecting the light of astronomical? Why hasn't daemons overrun terra yet? By the thrones newcrons really are our only hope.

But personally, giant of a man in baroque PA can be any high ranking SM and certainly is no "proof" of Vulkan's whereabouts. But that would be a pretty interesting plot point for the Salamanders to assault Trazyne's museum.
   
Made in ro
Regular Dakkanaut





 GuardRalph wrote:
 Mavlun wrote:
 GuardRalph wrote:
Vulkan in some Necron's trophy case? That has to be a very powerful dude. And I don't see it.


I don't think he'd need to be all that powerful to have caught a Primarch. You're making the mistake of imagining there had to be some sort of 1 on 1 fight (which in reality Trazyn's MSS could win for him), when in truth he has such technology that a capture is just a capture. You can be the strongest, most powerful goldfish in the world. Still not going to get out of that fish bowl though.

Even if that's Vulkan, the more impressive display is the last high council of the Idharae Craftworld.


I get that necro-tech is all crazy and super awesome. We are talking about a primarch is this case, a demigod.
Even the Craftworld council are effectively mortal (as eldar could be). And could be out done buy "a super duper crazy, smart, techy robot".


Demi-gods based on what? Gods in 40K have absolute dominion over aspects of reality and unreality, and near infinite amounts of power. What do primarchs have? Oh...big muscles? Well, at least they're immort....oh wait, heads being chopped off seem to work fine. Huh....demi-gods. Ah well...

Actual demi-gods in 40k are called Greater Daemons. But hey, it's not like Necrons have technology capable of imprisoning Greater Daemo.....oh wait. Guess what?
   
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The darkness between the stars

Actually not quite. Angron has lifted up a titan before, Lorgar has mentally slapped Horus around and magically tanked a titan shot. Sanguinus has snapped the back of supposedly one of the mightiest greater daemons of khorne, Curze was the flippin batman, And Magnus? Magnus laughs at your petty nonsense. He mentally slaps people around across galaxies, has destroyed titans with his might, can change his height, and does other silly things. Oh, and that part about immortality. Yeah.... Vulkan has gotten his head chopped off, butchered, mauled, burned and many other things. He's a perpetual which is basically like being immortal (in his case he will be chopped apart and then recover back to normal).

Finally, Hercules was a demi-god. He did a lot of crazy awesome things but even he could die. Chaos Daemons simply don't count because they are basically components of something that is basically a god (a chunk of the god tossed out)

Also, to be honest necrons having technology capable of imprisoning a greater daemon is honestly rather bull. Considering daemon's greatest flaw is that they are always in a tenuous connection to the real world at best, taking them into something that would cut off their bond to the warp would make them disappear. *shrugs*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/01 02:48:41


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Seattle

You don't need to cut the daemon off from the Warp to capture it, but simply imprison it in a place that keeps a bubble of the Warp trapped inside it.

All those runes and things that both Grey Knights and Chaos Sorcerers use to bind or summon daemons work because they follow certain rules that affect the way the Warp functions. You can call them "sacred geometries", if you like, and it is the metaphysical mathematical principles behind such things that the Necrons mastered tens of millions of years ago.

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Advanced technology may always seem to have a magical component to those less advanced.

Hence the Necrons technology being millions of years old would probably appear to be "magic". They mastered science and science can explain everything and solve every problem (which Trazyn would have access to to theoretically imprison a warp creature)
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Will1541 wrote:
So, mayhaps I'm crazy, but you'd expect their to be more "heros" in the Imperium that would be mourned for their loss than just the Primarchs. The excerpt doesn't say "Primarch" just "beings that died half a million years earlier - some whose loss was mourned by the galaxy at large."
Half a million years is 500,000, that's older than humanity's presence in the galaxy, so that's not a Primarch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Last I checked, the only real things of note that he owns of Imperial vaue are the disembodied head of Sebastian Thor, and Brother Cassiel of the Blood Angels, a giant of a man in baroque power armor, seconded to the deathwatch, his face trapped in a moment of fear.
He also has an Enslaver corpse somewhere I think. That's extremely valuable given how deadly and dangerous Enslavers are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/01 15:39:07


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





near Olympia, WA.

 Mavlun wrote:
 GuardRalph wrote:
 Mavlun wrote:
 GuardRalph wrote:
Vulkan in some Necron's trophy case? That has to be a very powerful dude. And I don't see it.


I don't think he'd need to be all that powerful to have caught a Primarch. You're making the mistake of imagining there had to be some sort of 1 on 1 fight (which in reality Trazyn's MSS could win for him), when in truth he has such technology that a capture is just a capture. You can be the strongest, most powerful goldfish in the world. Still not going to get out of that fish bowl though.

Even if that's Vulkan, the more impressive display is the last high council of the Idharae Craftworld.


I get that necro-tech is all crazy and super awesome. We are talking about a primarch is this case, a demigod.
Even the Craftworld council are effectively mortal (as eldar could be). And could be out done buy "a super duper crazy, smart, techy robot".


Demi-gods based on what? Gods in 40K have absolute dominion over aspects of reality and unreality, and near infinite amounts of power. What do primarchs have? Oh...big muscles? Well, at least they're immort....oh wait, heads being chopped off seem to work fine. Huh....demi-gods. Ah well...

Actual demi-gods in 40k are called Greater Daemons. But hey, it's not like Necrons have technology capable of imprisoning Greater Daemo.....oh wait. Guess what?


Perhaps you might be putting to much god into the demi-god. Look at myth from our history. Lots of bad-@ dudes got killed but were still demi-gods. And with all the fluff we have about the primarchs, i would place them within the demi-god slot over human. By a wide margin. GW uses the arch-types from myth and stories as inspiration.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/01 17:00:36


"… I hate donkey caves who design their armies with the sole purpose of crushing their opponent as fast as possible & with the least amount of actual effort required. It's a game of toy soldiers, yet for some people, it seems to be how they measure the true size of their penis." Experiment 626

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Sounds silly but I've found my models perform better in games when they've had a lick of paint on them!
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Indiana

 Melissia wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Last I checked, the only real things of note that he owns of Imperial vaue are the disembodied head of Sebastian Thor, and Brother Cassiel of the Blood Angels, a giant of a man in baroque power armor, seconded to the deathwatch, his face trapped in a moment of fear.
He also has an Enslaver corpse somewhere I think. That's extremely valuable given how deadly and dangerous Enslavers are.


I never really considered that thing to be noteworthy. Since it is long since ossified, there is relatively little to fear from it, since it is nothing but a feather in his cap. Now, if it was merely frozen in stasis, still alive....well, that would be a whole different story, considering just how dangerous that would be. That reminds me, I have to go dig up the rules on those things, since *technically* they are still valid rules that can be used this edition, and my buddy was curious just how powerful they are, tabletop wise.

To the myriad collection of USB Hardrives! If I never post back...get clearance for exterminatus.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/01 18:32:48


"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+ 
   
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The darkness between the stars

 Psienesis wrote:
You don't need to cut the daemon off from the Warp to capture it, but simply imprison it in a place that keeps a bubble of the Warp trapped inside it.

All those runes and things that both Grey Knights and Chaos Sorcerers use to bind or summon daemons work because they follow certain rules that affect the way the Warp functions. You can call them "sacred geometries", if you like, and it is the metaphysical mathematical principles behind such things that the Necrons mastered tens of millions of years ago.


Alrighty then! It just didn't much feel right for necrons to be dabbling with anything warpish (anathema and all) Still, thanks for informing me of such! It helps explain a lot xD

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Regular Dakkanaut





 Psienesis wrote:
You don't need to cut the daemon off from the Warp to capture it, but simply imprison it in a place that keeps a bubble of the Warp trapped inside it.

All those runes and things that both Grey Knights and Chaos Sorcerers use to bind or summon daemons work because they follow certain rules that affect the way the Warp functions. You can call them "sacred geometries", if you like, and it is the metaphysical mathematical principles behind such things that the Necrons mastered tens of millions of years ago.


It should also be mentioned that the Grey Knights (techmarines included) are too stupid to use the "simple push button interface" of the tesseract labyrinths.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Indiana

 Mavlun wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
You don't need to cut the daemon off from the Warp to capture it, but simply imprison it in a place that keeps a bubble of the Warp trapped inside it.

All those runes and things that both Grey Knights and Chaos Sorcerers use to bind or summon daemons work because they follow certain rules that affect the way the Warp functions. You can call them "sacred geometries", if you like, and it is the metaphysical mathematical principles behind such things that the Necrons mastered tens of millions of years ago.


It should also be mentioned that the Grey Knights (techmarines included) are too stupid to use the "simple push button interface" of the tesseract labyrinths.


Not true, considering that the Grey Knights do in fact have several tesseract labyrinths and have used them on several demons, as I recall. The problem is twofold really, in that they don't tend to keep them on hand, what with them holding daemons and wanted to keep them locked up somewhere safe, not to mention the fact that it is an alien device that is well beyond their knowledge, that if used incorrectly, could trap you as easily as your target. So, would you want to press the big red button all that often if you didn't know everything about it?

"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+ 
   
Made in ro
Regular Dakkanaut





 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
 Mavlun wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
You don't need to cut the daemon off from the Warp to capture it, but simply imprison it in a place that keeps a bubble of the Warp trapped inside it.

All those runes and things that both Grey Knights and Chaos Sorcerers use to bind or summon daemons work because they follow certain rules that affect the way the Warp functions. You can call them "sacred geometries", if you like, and it is the metaphysical mathematical principles behind such things that the Necrons mastered tens of millions of years ago.


It should also be mentioned that the Grey Knights (techmarines included) are too stupid to use the "simple push button interface" of the tesseract labyrinths.


Not true, considering that the Grey Knights do in fact have several tesseract labyrinths and have used them on several demons, as I recall. The problem is twofold really, in that they don't tend to keep them on hand, what with them holding daemons and wanted to keep them locked up somewhere safe, not to mention the fact that it is an alien device that is well beyond their knowledge, that if used incorrectly, could trap you as easily as your target. So, would you want to press the big red button all that often if you didn't know everything about it?


So....here's the actual quote:

"It is doubtful that any Battle-Brother truly understands the sciences behind the tesseract labyrinth. Arcane ritual has long replaced SIMPLE ACTIVATION, to the point where the chants, sigils and pentagrams used to 'awaken' the tesseract labyrinth now hold far more significance in the user's mind than the SIMPLE PUSHBUTTON INTERFACE that engages the device's zero-point reactor. It is unsurprising then, that the Chapter's Techmarines have been unable to duplicate the technology involved, and as the Grey Knights' relations with the mysterious creator race have deteriorated to the point of hostility, it is likely these few labyrinths are the only ones the Grey Knights will ever have."

That's right after the part where it says that despite tesseract labyrinths being the single most effective solution to getting rid of daemons forever, the Grey Knights don't trust them, because they're sciency things as opposed to sorcery things (which they would trust).

So yeah...not the sharpest tools in the shed.
   
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The darkness between the stars

Are you truly surprised by this in the grimdark future? Where xenos technology is heresy? Oh and that one must pray that their gun reloads?

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Between

You're not praying that the gun reloads, you're apologising for letting it run empty in the first place :p



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
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The darkness between the stars

 Furyou Miko wrote:
You're not praying that the gun reloads, you're apologising for letting it run empty in the first place :p


No no no! Come now! You must first make sure to pray before using the gun. Then you must pray to apologize for letting it run empty of ammunition. From there, you must pray to reload it properly. Finally, you must pray to aim properly and then fire. If you wish to be stealthy, you must also pray to be stealthy, chanting is a necessity! So how do I get off this box again?

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 Mavlun wrote:
"...and as the Grey Knights' relations with the mysterious creator race have deteriorated to the point of hostility, it is likely these few labyrinths are the only ones the Grey Knights will ever have."


Does that mean that the Grey Knights originally were on "speaking" terms with the Necrons???
   
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Between

Mellow wrote:
 Mavlun wrote:
"...and as the Grey Knights' relations with the mysterious creator race have deteriorated to the point of hostility, it is likely these few labyrinths are the only ones the Grey Knights will ever have."


Does that mean that the Grey Knights originally were on "speaking" terms with the Necrons???


Yes, probably Trazyn - he's been awake a lot longer than the other Lords, and he does have a very special relationship with Tesseract Labyrinths (and a certain Inquisitor, for that matter...)

StarTrotter wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:
You're not praying that the gun reloads, you're apologising for letting it run empty in the first place :p


No no no! Come now! You must first make sure to pray before using the gun. Then you must pray to apologize for letting it run empty of ammunition. From there, you must pray to reload it properly. Finally, you must pray to aim properly and then fire. If you wish to be stealthy, you must also pray to be stealthy, chanting is a necessity! So how do I get off this box again?


Jump, m'dear. Do not fear - we shall catch you.



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
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octarius.Lets krump da bugs!

Who knew that half a million years was only 10,000 years?

Kote!
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Coruscanta a'den mhi, vode an.
Bal kote,Darasuum kote,
Jorso'ran kando a tome.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad vode an.
Bal...
Motir ca'tra nau tracinya.
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 Da krimson barun wrote:
Who knew that half a million years was only 10,000 years?


Because Chaos did it.
   
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The darkness between the stars

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Mellow wrote:
 Mavlun wrote:
"...and as the Grey Knights' relations with the mysterious creator race have deteriorated to the point of hostility, it is likely these few labyrinths are the only ones the Grey Knights will ever have."


Does that mean that the Grey Knights originally were on "speaking" terms with the Necrons???


Yes, probably Trazyn - he's been awake a lot longer than the other Lords, and he does have a very special relationship with Tesseract Labyrinths (and a certain Inquisitor, for that matter...)

StarTrotter wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:
You're not praying that the gun reloads, you're apologising for letting it run empty in the first place :p


No no no! Come now! You must first make sure to pray before using the gun. Then you must pray to apologize for letting it run empty of ammunition. From there, you must pray to reload it properly. Finally, you must pray to aim properly and then fire. If you wish to be stealthy, you must also pray to be stealthy, chanting is a necessity! So how do I get off this box again?


Jump, m'dear. Do not fear - we shall catch you.


Those eyes... they tempt me so.... Yes yes MWAHAHAHAHA! *jumps off*

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