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Ok, so I'll be honest. I've always dug elves, wizards, and other such things when I used to do a lot of RPGs. Now I'm looking at Warmachine, and Retribution is jumping out at me like crazy. They look great, and they seem like an interesting faction to play. Well, my top two are Retribution and Mercenaries.

The articles I've glanced over make them seem a little too....specialized for my taste. Like, if I don't bring exactly what I need to get the job done (anti-mage, anti-jack, X unit with specific boosts from solos or warcasters) then I'm just going to get rolled. Is this the case? Would this be a faction that I got pummeled on the regular for using? I would like to mention that I expect to lose fully for a while until I start to learn the game. That's part of learning. I just don't want to lose because I haven't bought X model and the team I have isn't worth anything unless I have it.

This army looks extremely cool, would be a blast to model and paint and looks like it has a lot of fun twists and turns to it that would prevent it from feeling "stale." Is it just because I have no idea how to play the game other than rolling to hit and damage?

They're definitely not locked into any specific builds. There are certainly different units that combo well together, but you're not going to lose games because you didn't bring one particular combo.

No faction gets pummeled all the time. They're all pretty well balanced.

It's the damn players that are broken

But seriously, you shouldn't have any problems learning the game with Retribution. They've got a variety of builds to play. Also note that by builds, I don't mean entirely filled out army lists, just specific units and solos/casters/jacks etc that work well together. Warmachine is about finding things that mesh well, but there are no hard and fast rules about what works.

 Eraserparticles wrote:
Ok, so I'll be honest. I've always dug elves, wizards, and other such things when I used to do a lot of RPGs. Now I'm looking at Warmachine, and Retribution is jumping out at me like crazy. They look great, and they seem like an interesting faction to play. Well, my top two are Retribution and Mercenaries.

First up, welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to puck up your complimentary goggles and Phoenix plushie!

Next up - retribution. Yeah, I'll say this. From RPGs I despise elves. Hate the buggers! But when it comes to privateer press' elven history (grab the forces of war: retribution book) I have to confess I'm a huge fan. IMO they're one of the best, most interestingly conceived versions of the 'elven' idea. In other words, their background is fantastic (and has the admiration of an elf hater!)

 Eraserparticles wrote:

The articles I've glanced over make them seem a little too....specialized for my taste. Like, if I don't bring exactly what I need to get the job done (anti-mage, anti-jack, X unit with specific boosts from solos or warcasters) then I'm just going to get rolled. Is this the case? Would this be a faction that I got pummeled on the regular for using? I would like to mention that I expect to lose fully for a while until I start to learn the game. That's part of learning. I just don't want to lose because I haven't bought X model and the team I have isn't worth anything unless I have it.

This army looks extremely cool, would be a blast to model and paint and looks like it has a lot of fun twists and turns to it that would prevent it from feeling "stale." Is it just because I have no idea how to play the game other than rolling to hit and damage?

Warmachine is tricky, full stop. Retribution are the 'new' faction, and arguably suffer from a slight lack of depth when compared to the other factions by dint of not being out as long. That said, some of their most recent releases are fantastic, and really power up the faction. Issyria, the new caster is a beast.
Now, with regard to not bringing the right stuff, remember, everything in this game can be built into a game winning strategy. But not everything works with everything else equally, nor does it counter everything else all the time. It's not necessarily a game of three fours equalling two sixes. It's not what you bring, it's what you bring alongside it. Take the khador casters irusk and karchev. Irusk is an infantry buffing caster, karchev is a jack buffing caster. Put lots of jacks with irusk and you've got a fail. He has no way of supporting them as all his spells (bar one) are useless, as is his feat. Similar story with karchev - put him with just with infantry and it's a fail. He cannot support them as all his spells and feat support jacks. It's not that irusk, or karchev are bad. It's not that units or jacks are bad. It's your combinations that don't work. Now that said, irusk with one or two jacks works great. Karchev with a squad of infantry is fine.
It's not that they're too specialised at all, it's that you gave to realise they can't do everything at once. Ret are great at the ranged fine, extremely solid in melee, excellent at assassination, and killing mages.
To be fair, retribution casters won't ever breach the 's' rank of casters, but they've got some a-listers and issyria is a game changer. Retribution units are fantastic however. Mage hunters and dawnguard are as solid as anything. Jacks are solid, but like most warmachine factions, think combined arms, one to two jacks rather than a wall of metal.

You won't get 'pummeled' for using ret. this is not 40k. You will get pummelled for playing silly, and mucking up on the table top, you won't get pummelled because you play faction x. All factions are competitive. You might come up against a hard counter, and in thus case you use your alternative list (pp tourneys use a two, or three list format)

Hope test helps. Play the game and embrace page 5.

As a fellow newbie, I have just a few tips:

People say "phoenix plushie" whenever they greet a new Retribution player for a reason. It's a great omni-purpose warjack with a very good aesthetic and you really can't go wrong picking it up and gluing it together (as opposed to magnetizing it). There most certainly are lists that don't use it and place well in tournaments, but really I do feel that it's the 'jack that should've been in the starter set because it has a bit of everything and lets you get used to the most amount of rules.

Pick up one or two Arcanists. Extremely good, and equally extremely squishy, solos that boosts your 'jacks. Cheap, single-piece, metal model that enhances your army and is easy to fit in just about any list. What's not to like? Paint a beard on him, just because

For the rest, it's all up to you. You'll likely lose every single game for a while so putting together lists containing models that you think look cool is a legitimate way of doing things regardless
I can't, off the top of my head, think of more than one unit that the experienced crowd actively discourages and that is the heavy rifle team, for the simple fact that light artillery in general is a bit poorly designed - or so the interwebs would have me believe.

Ok, so first off, thank you all for the replies. FLGS opens at noon, so I'm off to get some Retribution. Also, thanks for the suggestions on the models to look at next. Checked out Phoenix and Arcanists and they look incredible. I look forward to checking out their stats later today.

On a side note, yes, I got a bad first impression of table top gaming with 40k. While I understand that this is a separate game, I still have those initial anxieties and gut reactions that have been pummeled into me a hundred thousand times. Well, I probably didn't play more than 50 games, but each game lasts a few hours, so.....

So it's extremely refreshing to start up a new game and hear that it's the player that makes the army great, not the other way around. I was getting tired of blaming what I couldn't afford to bring to the table and look forward to losing on my own merit.

On a related note, we're going to jump right in and grab a battle box for each of us. I've been up all night reading rules and I'm ready to go. So...expect questions.....

Thanks again everybody, I appreciate the help (and the fast help at that!)

My friend plays Ret as his main faction and they are competitive for sure. And some of the new releases they are getting in this new book look amazing and help them deal with one of the few real weaknesses they had.

They are legit.

Hell yeah, welcome to Warmachine

I can't say anything that hasn't already been stated.

No faction is a flat pushover, nor is any faction a perfect army. Drop a tournament list in the hands of a nitwit and you'll get nitwit results XD A little Battlecollege, PP forums, dakka, lots of hands on practice, read the faction book if you get it, more practice, and you'll be golden. You will have bad matchups, and they will be difficult. NOT impossible!

You will lose quite a bit at first, but you'll get the hang of it quickly, and things will change. Games don't typically last that long, and whenever you finish a game, openly ask your opponent: "Hey, what could I have done differently?" I find most of my games aren't from a lack of trying or models, but a hole in my own ability.

hey im a fellow newbie myself.

I went with what ever looked cool. To me that was a bunch of Ramaging Werewolves with spikes

Now....I just have to learn how to use them.....

 Eraserparticles wrote:

So it's extremely refreshing to start up a new game and hear that it's the player that makes the army great, not the other way around. I was getting tired of blaming what I couldn't afford to bring to the table and look forward to losing on my own merit.

Okay, while this is a correct statement, I do want to be absolutely clear on something:

That most models/units are good, and because there are not 'bad' factions, does not mean that there are not bad army lists. You can /absolutely/ construct an army that is very ineffective on the table, no matter how well you play (within reason, of course).

To use the over-the-top example, a list that has only anti-infantry weaponry will get rolled by heavy armor. I know that that's obvious, but it does mean that you have to think ahead when constructing your list. You can't take a mishmash of what you like and come out on top due to skill. Now, skill /is/ a huge factor, and can compensate for the above, but it's not the be-all end-all.

Just as a note on what BoardroomHero said, I think a better way to view the issue is to think of list-building as another skill, and that in Warmachine you need to be better at it than just being able to spam the best models/units available. While player skill does make a huge difference in game, good listbuilding does put a player at an advantage. In most cases you can't just throw a pile of models on the table and expect to do well against equally skilled opponents.

RegalPhantom wrote:
Just as a note on what BoardroomHero said, I think a better way to view the issue is to think of list-building as another skill, and that in Warmachine you need to be better at it than just being able to spam the best models/units available. While player skill does make a huge difference in game, good listbuilding does put a player at an advantage. In most cases you can't just throw a pile of models on the table and expect to do well against equally skilled opponents.

I'll agree with this view completely.