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    * Warlocks
        * Warlock (Goes with jetbikes)
            Singing spear and jetbike
        * Warlock (Goes with guardian defenders for conceal)
            Witchblade

+ HQ
    Farseer (with jetbikes. Thinking Divination rolls for more offense powers. Or maybe telepathy)
        Singing spear
        Eldar Jetbike

    * The Avatar of Khaine (Mans the gun)
        Fast Shot, Night Vision

+ Troops + (617pts)

    * Guardian Defenders 20x Guardian
        * Heavy Weapons x2 (bright lance)

    * Storm Guardians x12 (Defend from assaults via deep strike or drop pod)
        2x Flamer , 2x Power sword
        * Wave Serpent normal layout

    * Windrider Jetbike Squadron x6
2x Shuriken Cannons

+ Fast Attack

    * Vyper Squadron x3
            Holo-fields, Scatter laser, Shuriken cannon

+ Heavy Support

    * Fire Prism x2
        Holo-fields

    * Vaul's Wrath Support Battery x3
Shadow weaver x3

Fortifications (Fortification) Selections:

+ Fortification + (85pts)

    * Aegis Defense Line
        Gun emplacement with Icarus lascannon


I'd kinda like to get another warlock for the storm guardians, but feel like he'd be a waste. Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No criticism?

I think you are troop light. You really only have 2 forward moving scoring units and they are not that durable. 6 bikes might be twice as durable as 3 and buffed by a warlock, but it isn't going to cut it.

please do yourself a favour and cut the Vypers. They really take from the "competitive" credibility. I can only see them be run in a very themed, fast list. IMO put in one Crimson Hunter Exarch and have points to spare instead.

That is an interesting list. I have a few questions for you and a few suggestions. First question: How do your Fire Prisms treat you? Mine always fail me, so I switched to using the Night Spinner instead, which has been superb in all my games.

In fact, I'd switch the Fire Prisms for a stock WK and the Vypers for 3 Warwalkers with dual Scatterlasers. Same points(less, in fact, since they don't need Holofields), almost the same mobility(superior mobility in some cases, once you factor in their Outflank USR), better firepower and far greater durability. Battle-focus, greater range and 5++ make them deceptively hard to kill.

But if you wanted to keep your Prisms, or if the WK is too expensive for you, $-wise, I get it. And Prisms aren't bad, they're just very unreliable. In some games, they'll pay their points back 3-fold, while in some, they'll just continually whiff. I tend to steer clear of such units, as I like to know I can depend on each unit to do what I want it to do.

I'd also drop the jetbike Warlock, split the 6-man jetbike squad into 2x3-man and put your Farseer in your Artillery, or in your Guardians.

Storm Guardians are bad. More to the point, Power Weapon upgrades are abysmal. You can't find a worse place to spend those 30 points on. The Storms themselves can work with their flamers/fusion guns, but make it a 10-man squad and give them a Warlock. Or better yet, don't take them at all and take a Wave Serpent instead for your 20-man Guardian blob. Yes, you can do that, even if they don't fit into the Serpent. And take 5 or 6 Rangers to camp your home objective. 3+ natural cover save behind ADL and 2+ if they gtg. They'll be hard to shift. And in case someone gets close, you've got Avatar there to scare them.

There's essentially lots of things you can change here to streamline the list, without changing the general feel, but without more input on your available models, I can't really offer more C&C than that.

I personally like the dakka vypers but wouldn't suggest the holofields for them, they are there to blast stuff to pieces and then if they survive, rinse and repeat the extra cover wouldn't make too much difference imo, I've found that if the enemy wants them dead, they die

 Araenion wrote:
That is an interesting list. I have a few questions for you and a few suggestions. First question: How do your Fire Prisms treat you? Mine always fail me, so I switched to using the Night Spinner instead, which has been superb in all my games.

In fact, I'd switch the Fire Prisms for a stock WK and the Vypers for 3 Warwalkers with dual Scatterlasers. Same points(less, in fact, since they don't need Holofields), almost the same mobility(superior mobility in some cases, once you factor in their Outflank USR), better firepower and far greater durability. Battle-focus, greater range and 5++ make them deceptively hard to kill.

But if you wanted to keep your Prisms, or if the WK is too expensive for you, $-wise, I get it. And Prisms aren't bad, they're just very unreliable. In some games, they'll pay their points back 3-fold, while in some, they'll just continually whiff. I tend to steer clear of such units, as I like to know I can depend on each unit to do what I want it to do.

I'd also drop the jetbike Warlock, split the 6-man jetbike squad into 2x3-man and put your Farseer in your Artillery, or in your Guardians.

Storm Guardians are bad. More to the point, Power Weapon upgrades are abysmal. You can't find a worse place to spend those 30 points on. The Storms themselves can work with their flamers/fusion guns, but make it a 10-man squad and give them a Warlock. Or better yet, don't take them at all and take a Wave Serpent instead for your 20-man Guardian blob. Yes, you can do that, even if they don't fit into the Serpent. And take 5 or 6 Rangers to camp your home objective. 3+ natural cover save behind ADL and 2+ if they gtg. They'll be hard to shift. And in case someone gets close, you've got Avatar there to scare them.

There's essentially lots of things you can change here to streamline the list, without changing the general feel, but without more input on your available models, I can't really offer more C&C than that.

Fire prisms for me have usually done pretty well. If there's something that absolutely has to die I can usually bring it down with the two lance weapons. I use them as a happy medium between crowd control and high powered lance weaponry. I did take the shadow weaver artillery as some useful barrage blast weaponry. I like the WK, but I just feel like he doesn't get much firepower for what he is.

I agree the storm guardians are bad and I wouldn't feel bad about dropping them. I just liked the idea of having a backfield CC fodder to protect the defenders if need be from being charged and they'll still be fearless thanks to the dude on fire.

Typically I keep the farseer with the artillery but my thoughts was to have a mobile frontline psyker to cast offensive powers among the enemy and act as a distraction from the firebase. Usually I take advantage of her LD 10, but with them being fearless I'm ok with that.

Guardian defenders are to act as a blob to defend the avatar from being charged, to be fearless, and to have a 2+ save from Conceal and Ageis.


Basically I was trying to move away from wave serpents and war walkers and do a list with no aspect warriors because I run Ulthwe.

That said, I have access to most aspect warriors (except banshees and/or crimson hunter and shining spears). I have a WK. I have 6 War Walkers. I have a seer council. etc. I could switch it up if there's just no salvaging this list.

There absolutely is. The list itself is pretty good, you shouldn't lose against anything too badly. As far as streamlining goes...

It's interesting to me(I don't mean this in a sarcastic way) that you feel the WK doesn't have enough firepower, while Prisms do. Their large blast is the only reliable thing about them. Wraithknight acts as mobile AT, as a CC monster(5 I5 S10AP2 attacks + HoW), a fire magnet and a very effective counter-charge. He's also 40 points cheaper than 2 Fire Prisms and miles more survivable, especially if you get Forewarning, The WK also takes one less HS slot, which is the kicker here, since you could take Warwalkers too. But I won't shove him down your throat...

...if you wished to keep both the Prisms and the Vypers, the list is by no means bad. Just keep the Vypers cheap. Drop the Holofields and perhaps even Scatterlasers and either go with Starcannons or dual Shuricannons. It threatens light vehicles slightly worse, but elite infantry and MCs are terrified of these guys, especially guided.

I'd drop the Storms, then add 6 Rangers and another 3-man WRJ squad. For the same points, you get far more scoring potential. Leagues away from Storms. And you get some leftover points too. The Serpent can go to your Guardian blob. An empty Wave Serpent is nice to have, actually, since you no longer have that psychological effect that makes you play careful with them. And besides, you can board those Rangers inside and keep them safe from first-turn flamers, for instance.

If you do all this, you get a few points extra here and there. You could perhaps even get enough for a squad of Swooping Hawks, which while Aspect warriors, would really fit in your list, as it lacks the ability to fight opposing camping lists. Tau gunline, for instance, will utterly murder you. But Swooping Hawks are such terrific harrass and so good against a lot of Tau units(Pathfinders spring to mind immediately), that they're almost a must-take against such armies. And it's only one Aspect, so your army stays with the general theme.

 Araenion wrote:


It's interesting to me(I don't mean this in a sarcastic way) that you feel the WK doesn't have enough firepower, while Prisms do. Their large blast is the only reliable thing about them. Wraithknight acts as mobile AT, as a CC monster(5 I5 S10AP2 attacks + HoW), a fire magnet and a very effective counter-charge. He's also 40 points cheaper than 2 Fire Prisms and miles more survivable, especially if you get Forewarning, The WK also takes one less HS slot, which is the kicker here, since you could take Warwalkers too. But I won't shove him down your throat...

Don't get me wrong, I do like the WK, but it's a lot of points to invest in a single model. It's also relegated to only firing at a single target and doesn't have the lance rule. The prisms are more versatile imo due to the fact they're separate, have different firing modes, and have twice the range.

It's easily a matter of semantics though on the battlefield.