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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 05:32:05
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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How do you take a fairly fluffy choice and make it competitive?
For the sake of argument, a Demi-Company is 1-2 Assault squads, 1-2 Devastator Squads, 2-4 Tactical Squads and maybe 1 Veteran squad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 06:05:17
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Regular Dakkanaut
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You don't. You can try and build a fluffy list to be as efficient as possible, but the fluff is still dictating what units you're taking and thus you're not running the most efficient list.
It's not a bad thing to run fluff lists, in my opinion. A lot of people do it and from a balance perspective, you're using the units in a way that was originally envisioned and therefore should have balance. Just don't expect to be able to take a list that's been min/maxed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 06:59:59
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Homerules. No other way to make it on par with current top tier armies. Just play fluffy games with adequate opponents. It's way more fun than 'competitive' armybuilding. You'll have a ton of tactical possibilities and not just dice-throwing.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 07:01:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 13:15:12
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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What chapter? Have a playstyle in mind? How many points? How “pure” do you want to be? Plain power armor marines, or take advantage of centurion suits, or deploy your assault squads on bikes/speeders? Obviously the more restrictions you place on yourself, the harder it is to make a competitive list.
Off the top of my head, I’d say Salamander drop pod or IF gunline might be your best bet, but there is a lot to work with.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 13:30:39
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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Nevelon wrote:What chapter? Have a playstyle in mind? How many points? How “pure” do you want to be? Plain power armor marines, or take advantage of centurion suits, or deploy your assault squads on bikes/speeders? Obviously the more restrictions you place on yourself, the harder it is to make a competitive list.
Off the top of my head, I’d say Salamander drop pod or IF gunline might be your best bet, but there is a lot to work with.
This, and it is fluffy still also. Devs man centurion suits, assault marines do man bikes and speeders (though, these can also be manned by reserve company members also).
So 3 Tac squads, 2 land speeders, 4 bikes and an attack Bike, 5 dev centurions and 5 dev marines is a full half company minus company HQ.
Not necessarily the most efficient list out there but played correctly and with the right HQ's, transport, and additional support it can be viable.
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My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 13:37:54
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Its going to be a joke no matter what happens really because Devastators, Assault Squads and Tacticals are all garbage one way or another.
Just goes to show why the 6th ed Space Marine Codex was such a failure.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/04 17:10:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 14:12:50
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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One of the primary reason I'm considering this idea (beyond as a background driven army) is financial.
Infantry based kits appear to have a much higher point density than vehicles. For example, the Whirlwind or Hunter kit are nearly $1:1 point whereas the Tactical Squad box is $1:4 points with only modest upgrades.
I understand that $$ shouldn't be a factor in list building but in my case it certainly is. Trying to make lemonade outta lemons and (quite literally) get the most bang for my buck.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 15:06:08
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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minigun762 wrote:One of the primary reason I'm considering this idea (beyond as a background driven army) is financial.
Infantry based kits appear to have a much higher point density than vehicles. For example, the Whirlwind or Hunter kit are nearly $1:1 point whereas the Tactical Squad box is $1:4 points with only modest upgrades.
I understand that $$ shouldn't be a factor in list building but in my case it certainly is. Trying to make lemonade outta lemons and (quite literally) get the most bang for my buck.
Nothing wrong with building on a budget, but it does change the nature of the discussion. For example, Salamanders need a lot of drop pods to get the most out of their tactics, boosting their cost to field. An Imperial Fist gunline works better with just boots on the ground
From a dollar to points ratio, we should start looking at what deals are available. The SM strikeforce can be put together as a 1,250 army @ $225 That’s a good ratio. And while you aren’t going to be knocking taudar and screamerstars off the tournament circuit, you can field a solid TAC list.
If you want to keep the demi-comapny theme, add another 5 assault marines and a dev squad to that list. I’d pick up another tactical box for bodies to fill up the dev squad. You only really need 5 guys, but having the extra bits and bodies is nice. $333 retail from GW total. Should be able to easily field a 1,500 army, probably 1,750 without any real stretching.
If you want to set your goal a little higher, pick up two strikeforces and a dev box. $485 total GW retail. You can easily get the 3x10 man tac squads, 10 assault marines, and a 10 man dev squad for a half company. Plus the captain, command squad, and a pair of dreds. You should have enough bits and bodies left over to also put together a 10 man sternguard squad, which will add some much needed punch to your list. Depending on how you build it, you should be able to hit 2,000 points easy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 16:13:08
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Fixture of Dakka
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Devesatators are totally solid on the per point or per slot basis. You're not going to go wrong fielding those, assuming you stick to missiles or lascannons.
Sternguard via Drop Pod is still pretty dang good.
Tactical Squads you're forced to take.
If you're determined to take Assault Marines and are willing to do so without Jump Packs, you can get 2 flamers and a combi-flamer in a Drop Pod for a bargain 105 points. That's pretty threatening to the cowardly scoring units the meta seems to enjoy.
There's no salvaging Assault Marines with Jump Packs though.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 16:59:56
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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I'd say crimson fists.
3 Tacs, 1 devastator without transports.
2 sternguards squads in pods, one with Kantor, one with a Libby.
If you need to field assault squads, go bikes or cheap flamers in DP like Eternal suggests.
That's pretty fluffy and can compete to some level.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 18:19:28
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Nevelon: Thanks for the very practical breakdown. I will use your advice as a starting point.
To derail my own thread, why the Assault Marine hate?
They don't seem amazing but they are hardly trash and not having to rely on a 250+ point transport to see combat is a big bonus.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 19:18:08
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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They are more expensive, but die just the same as a tactical marine. And with armies like Eldar and Tau out there, that’s pretty darn fast.
Assault is generally frowned upon. Random charge distance and overwatch wounds from the front make it hard to get into CC alive
Assault marines can’t take on anybody else’s CC specialists. They are a bully unit, fit only for killing backfield campers. And do you need a dedicated CC unit to do that?
Compare them to bikes. Same FA slot, but bike are just as fast, tougher, have better guns, can be made scoring, and are only slightly worse in CC.
6th is regarded as a shooty edition. AMs are a CC unit, so they are going to be hated on for that alone. And they are a mediocre CC unit to boot, so extra points against them.
All that said, I do like them. When mine hit the table, it’s a 5 man unit, flamer, power sword on the sarge. Lead by a jump chaplain. Use them as a backfield harassment unit, or a countercharge element. They might not be the most point efficient unit, but they are fun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 19:23:27
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Gargantuan Gargant
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minigun762 wrote:Nevelon: Thanks for the very practical breakdown. I will use your advice as a starting point. To derail my own thread, why the Assault Marine hate? They don't seem amazing but they are hardly trash and not having to rely on a 250+ point transport to see combat is a big bonus. Mainly because this is the edition of dakka and the few CC-based units that are considered still viable either have ridiculous survivability in conjunction with speed or damage potential (i.e. Screamerstars, Jetseer council stars, used to be Nob Biker death stars). Assault marines just lack a sufficiently dangerous amount of attacks to make them a viable CC threat and they die just as fast as any other marine while costing more. They're often used more as a harassment unit with 2 flamers which is fine if you use them that way but they are outshone in this role by bikes who have better speed, better weapon options and can be scoring with the proper HQ choice. Also the targets they are good at bullying are units that your normal tactical marines can normally handle at range anyways which means they are largely redundant in their role sadly. Dammit, ninja'ed by Nevelon! *shakes green fist*
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/04 19:23:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 19:38:39
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Storm Guard
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i like assault marines, you cant just run them up the middle like you want to. they can be be a late game hammer blow to finish off an important scoring unit. vangaurds are much better at this albeit more expensive.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 19:45:12
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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I see the logic of "6th is shooting edition" but I don't see how Marines can out shoot Tau or IG or even Eldar.
We already pay for a generalist's stat line, so I imagine it's worthwhile to run some assault elements who can tarpit shooters or butcher MSU objective squads and AMs seem viable for that reason.
Maybe not though
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 20:11:35
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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I am in no way a Marine expert, but I always liked the idea of a bunch of Dev, Tac, and Assault Marines because individually they just aren't that expensive, and they do offer some capability in a wide range of areas. Most armies, even ones that have much cheaper troops than Marines, have so much other support that their model count isn't that high. If you only (or largely) have Marines, you can have a whole lot of them! They're not that tough compared to lots of stuff, but they are pretty tough per point. They're also just good enough in enough areas that there's not going to be a lot of easy kills. Each of your units will required a fair amount of work to finish off.
But like I said, I don't know that much about Marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 20:28:14
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Scouting Shadow Warrior
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If you like Assault Marines, like I do, you could always field them using the Raven Guard chapter tactics. The ability to use the jump packs in movement and assault phase with the added ability to reroll your charge roll is pretty nice. Couple that with rerollable HOW attacks and it's good fun for everyone. I usually run mine with a jump Chaplain, 2 flamers, and vet sgt. with a power fist. Makes them an all around useful unit whether they are tackling infantry or vehicles.
The other half of the tactics, the ability to scout all infantry and their transport seems like it would help you out quite a bit since it looks like you are trying to stay away from vehicles. Good for repositioning to minimize threats or just push forward a bit.
I highly recommend a Stormraven if you can swing it. I absolutely love mine and it has saved the day many times for me, and even if it couldn't it still made me feel better when it blew up some of the bigger targets.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 21:19:46
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Dustin V wrote:
I highly recommend a Stormraven if you can swing it. I absolutely love mine and it has saved the day many times for me, and even if it couldn't it still made me feel better when it blew up some of the bigger targets.
Do you use it as a transport or gun ship?
The risk of crashing and wiping out the squad inside is considerable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 22:05:52
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Scouting Shadow Warrior
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I use it as a gunship with great success, TL MM and TL AC with the 4 missiles has no problem taking any target out. I like to award my Stormraven a brass etched RG emblem for every 5 vehicles or MC's it takes out. It earned it's 3rd one on Sunday when it took out two DE ravagers thanks to POTMS. The first game it debuted in it downed 3 Land Raiders. So this always comes with me, always. I've used it as a transport with a 5 man scout squad for late game objective grabbing and it's pretty awesome for that too, so long as you pay for the locator beacon on it. My dice rolling skills are terrible so I need the insurance that that the onboard, deepstriking squad isn't going to scatter into oblivion. If it crashes you are out the initial point cost plus the 55 pts for the squad inside. It has armor 12 all the way around and ceramite plating so it is immune to armourbane. It goes down every now and again but most games it stays in the air.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 22:09:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 15:37:41
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Dustin V wrote:I use it as a gunship with great success, TL MM and TL AC with the 4 missiles has no problem taking any target out. I like to award my Stormraven a brass etched RG emblem for every 5 vehicles or MC's it takes out. It earned it's 3rd one on Sunday when it took out two DE ravagers thanks to POTMS. The first game it debuted in it downed 3 Land Raiders. So this always comes with me, always.
I've used it as a transport with a 5 man scout squad for late game objective grabbing and it's pretty awesome for that too, so long as you pay for the locator beacon on it. My dice rolling skills are terrible so I need the insurance that that the onboard, deepstriking squad isn't going to scatter into oblivion. If it crashes you are out the initial point cost plus the 55 pts for the squad inside. It has armor 12 all the way around and ceramite plating so it is immune to armourbane. It goes down every now and again but most games it stays in the air.
Raven isn't too bad when it comes to points vs dollars, so I might be able to get one.
Though one flyer does start the slippery slope of adding more flyers or armor to get saturation and redundancy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 15:56:42
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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For what it’s worth, I run an ADL and a talon for my AA needs in most of my lists. I do OK with that. My FLGS is not one of the more hyper competitive ones, so most armies only have one or two flyers (if that). There will always be the outlier, and you meta might be different, so YMMV.
If you are running a list with a few drop pods, one thing you can task your first wave with is silencing the AA guns before your flyer(s) hit the table. You can do this with long range fire, but it’s easier to do with pods. Sternguard (or flamer heavy) units and use ignore cover to clean out ADLs. Bonus points if you then man it and use it against your opponent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 16:00:57
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Scouting Shadow Warrior
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Oh, I only run the one Stormraven and have no intentions of getting another. I thinking spending 75 bucks on a model one time is sufficient for me, I own 1 land raider and that is the only 1 I will ever own. I am thinking of picking up a Stormtalon though, thinking it might be fun to have that escort the Stormraven on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 16:58:04
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Dustin V wrote:Oh, I only run the one Stormraven and have no intentions of getting another. I thinking spending 75 bucks on a model one time is sufficient for me, I own 1 land raider and that is the only 1 I will ever own. I am thinking of picking up a Stormtalon though, thinking it might be fun to have that escort the Stormraven on.
I like this method from a modeling perspective. Get one of something but don't spam..
Sadly the history of 40k seems to support unit spamming.
As for the Talon, I really think the designers intended it to be flown alongside the Raven. The escort rules, along with the new dataslate all seem to push that idea.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 17:22:01
Subject: Demi-Company Tactics
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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There are times you want them to show up at the same time, but for the most time I’d fly them solo, just to try to get at least one on the table quickly.
But if there is a lot of interceptor fire on the table, you might want both to show up at the same time, so they can’t just shoot them down piecemeal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/06 04:50:14
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator
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I can stand as testament to the ability of this sort of list to perform.
The regular backbone of my army includes
2 ten man Tactical Squads and their Rhinos
1 Devastator Squad
1 Assault Marine Squad
1 Scout Squad
1 Dreadnaught
1 Squad of Sternguard or Tactical Terminators
My lists are basically a classic collection of Space Marine units that you'd expect to find deployed on the many battle zones they operate in. Like the force from a Cruiser deploying on a random planet to respond to a newly arising threat.
I will admit that I usually only run 5 man squads of ASM, Scouts, and Elites, and maybe a 7 man Devastator squad, but the core of the army is still pretty Codex Compliant. A full battle company is 60% Tactical Marines, 20% Devastators, and 20% Assault Marines. 20 Tacticals, 5-7 Devs, and 5 ASM is pretty close to that though. Add in the attached Scout squads and the company Dread and a small attached 1st Company squad and you've got a pretty fluffy force.
I play in a medium-high competitive meta, not quite WAAC copy-paste netlists, but a few of that type of player combined with a large number of veterans playing to win without being total jerks about it. I have never done worse than tying for 3rd in local tourneys.
Generalship and field-hammer start to play a much much bigger role when you play with this kind of list though. If you build it right you won't have any blaring strengths, but you also will have no blaring weaknesses, so keeping the objectives and win conditions in mind and a evaluating the strengths and weaknesses your force and the enemies force in each match up you find yourself in is hugely important.
Overall it is a very satisfying way to play 40k. There is nothing like taking a seemingly unimpressive yet very balanced force of humble Astartes into battle against all the latest power codexes with multiple flyers or Riptides or whatever is the cool new thing and slowly but surely grinding the heretics and xenos into the dust.
And always remember...when you play simple, humble Astartes with no gimmicks and only solid tactics to give you an advantage, the Emperor smiles on his Golden Throne, and the Emperor Protects. Automatically Appended Next Post: Just read the Assault Marine questions ( I know, shame is mine for not fully reading the thread before responding).
Everyone hit the pros/cons on the head, but I have to add that mine do a pretty great job when you use them correctly.
They roll with a Jump Pack Captain/Chapter Master who soaks up most small arms fire with a 2+/3++ and you basically either keep them behind your line to intercept anything that comes to close to your battle line or you skirt them up through LoS blocking cover to pounce on weaker enemy backfield units.
In a recent 3 match tourney I had them kill off two flanking 15 man Genestealer units (with some fire support before the charge), kill a Riptide w/ Melta-Bombs and would have killed the second Riptide if the game hadn't ended (caught two in a dual assault thanks to Jump Pack mobility and Ultramarine Assault Doctrine), and in my final game crumpled an enemies right flank killing 10 or so Tactical Marines and finishing off an enemy Centurian/Tigurius/Coteaz type power group.
Some games they do just get wasted by concerted firepower, but no unit is safe from destruction when the a capable enemy focuses enough attention on them.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/06 05:19:28
- For Macragge, Guilliman, and the Emperor
They're one of the legions with the lost Primarchs, their primarch currently wandering around dazed and confused in an alternate reality where he is known as Jean Luc Picard.
MagickalMemories wrote:
A Vindicator without a dozer blade just looks like a Rhino with an erection.
Kilkrazy wrote:All we moderators hate each other intensely, but we hate users even more and that keeps us tight. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/06 06:04:54
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade
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DarknessEternal wrote:If you're determined to take Assault Marines and are willing to do so without Jump Packs, you can get 2 flamers and a combi-flamer in a Drop Pod for a bargain 105 points.
Since when can ASM sgts take combi-weapons?
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A ton of armies and a terrain habit...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/06 21:06:02
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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UltraTacSgt wrote:I can stand as testament to the ability of this sort of list to perform.
The regular backbone of my army includes
2 ten man Tactical Squads and their Rhinos
1 Devastator Squad
1 Assault Marine Squad
1 Scout Squad
1 Dreadnaught
1 Squad of Sternguard or Tactical Terminators
My lists are basically a classic collection of Space Marine units that you'd expect to find deployed on the many battle zones they operate in. Like the force from a Cruiser deploying on a random planet to respond to a newly arising threat.
I will admit that I usually only run 5 man squads of ASM, Scouts, and Elites, and maybe a 7 man Devastator squad, but the core of the army is still pretty Codex Compliant. A full battle company is 60% Tactical Marines, 20% Devastators, and 20% Assault Marines. 20 Tacticals, 5-7 Devs, and 5 ASM is pretty close to that though. Add in the attached Scout squads and the company Dread and a small attached 1st Company squad and you've got a pretty fluffy force.
I play in a medium-high competitive meta, not quite WAAC copy-paste netlists, but a few of that type of player combined with a large number of veterans playing to win without being total jerks about it. I have never done worse than tying for 3rd in local tourneys.
Generalship and field-hammer start to play a much much bigger role when you play with this kind of list though. If you build it right you won't have any blaring strengths, but you also will have no blaring weaknesses, so keeping the objectives and win conditions in mind and a evaluating the strengths and weaknesses your force and the enemies force in each match up you find yourself in is hugely important.
Overall it is a very satisfying way to play 40k. There is nothing like taking a seemingly unimpressive yet very balanced force of humble Astartes into battle against all the latest power codexes with multiple flyers or Riptides or whatever is the cool new thing and slowly but surely grinding the heretics and xenos into the dust.
And always remember...when you play simple, humble Astartes with no gimmicks and only solid tactics to give you an advantage, the Emperor smiles on his Golden Throne, and the Emperor Protects.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just read the Assault Marine questions ( I know, shame is mine for not fully reading the thread before responding).
Everyone hit the pros/cons on the head, but I have to add that mine do a pretty great job when you use them correctly.
They roll with a Jump Pack Captain/Chapter Master who soaks up most small arms fire with a 2+/3++ and you basically either keep them behind your line to intercept anything that comes to close to your battle line or you skirt them up through LoS blocking cover to pounce on weaker enemy backfield units.
In a recent 3 match tourney I had them kill off two flanking 15 man Genestealer units (with some fire support before the charge), kill a Riptide w/ Melta-Bombs and would have killed the second Riptide if the game hadn't ended (caught two in a dual assault thanks to Jump Pack mobility and Ultramarine Assault Doctrine), and in my final game crumpled an enemies right flank killing 10 or so Tactical Marines and finishing off an enemy Centurian/Tigurius/Coteaz type power group.
Some games they do just get wasted by concerted firepower, but no unit is safe from destruction when the a capable enemy focuses enough attention on them.
Great post, very inspiring.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/06 21:49:58
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
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My FLGS is very beer-and-pretzels, so I've run a hyper-fluffy Ultramarine Battle Company list the past couple years. At 2000 points I had 3 Tactical Squads, 1 Assault Squad, 1 Devastator Squad and 1 Scout Squad, all at full strength with Rhinos and a Drop Pod. I ran a Captain and Command Squad in a Razorback (maximum fluff with Apothecary, standard, Champion), and then a couple support units (LS Typhoon, Whirlwind). In other words, it's about as close to the classic fluff as you can get. I love playing this list, and it got substantially better with the new Codex, thanks to reduced points across the board and the addition of Chapter Tactics, which this list capitalizes on.
However, a traditional "Battle Company" list really, truly struggles to deal damage. I don't think I can describe just how much dead weight is in my list. Assault Marines never kill anything, sniper Scouts tickle most foes, and Tactical Squads fall short against anything beyond basic infantry. In this list, the Devastators and support units are the heavy hitters, with the rest of the army providing very points-inefficient fire support. To be honest, I view this list as a handicap, albeit one I use gladly in my FLGS, because many people who play there tend to be very casual. However, if I happen to play against somebody who's packing a little heat, no amount of tactical acumen can save it, because the Marines die too easy and can't kill enough.
This type of list would definitely be more effective with Imperial Fists.
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1st and 2nd Company - 5000pts
86th Ultramar Regiment - 4000pts
Hive Fleet Kraken - 3000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/06 22:28:31
Subject: Re:Demi-Company Tactics
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Roboute wrote:My FLGS is very beer-and-pretzels, so I've run a hyper-fluffy Ultramarine Battle Company list the past couple years. At 2000 points I had 3 Tactical Squads, 1 Assault Squad, 1 Devastator Squad and 1 Scout Squad, all at full strength with Rhinos and a Drop Pod. I ran a Captain and Command Squad in a Razorback (maximum fluff with Apothecary, standard, Champion), and then a couple support units ( LS Typhoon, Whirlwind). In other words, it's about as close to the classic fluff as you can get. I love playing this list, and it got substantially better with the new Codex, thanks to reduced points across the board and the addition of Chapter Tactics, which this list capitalizes on.
However, a traditional "Battle Company" list really, truly struggles to deal damage. I don't think I can describe just how much dead weight is in my list. Assault Marines never kill anything, sniper Scouts tickle most foes, and Tactical Squads fall short against anything beyond basic infantry. In this list, the Devastators and support units are the heavy hitters, with the rest of the army providing very points-inefficient fire support. To be honest, I view this list as a handicap, albeit one I use gladly in my FLGS, because many people who play there tend to be very casual. However, if I happen to play against somebody who's packing a little heat, no amount of tactical acumen can save it, because the Marines die too easy and can't kill enough.
This type of list would definitely be more effective with Imperial Fists.
I think this is symptomatic of the bigger trends in 40k.
No longer is it a game of "balanced" armies in terms of amount of points spent on each FOC slot.
Now you identify the 1-2 most powerful units and spend your points on buying as much of them as possible.
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