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Can this happen?

Once per turn isn't it?
So any roll that happens outside a turn can't be re-rolled, so that's a no to "seize".

Definitely no to seize, which explicitly happens before the first turn.

End the game roll, I don't see why not. We're told that the beginning of the turn and the beginning of the movement phase are the same thing. So why wouldn't the end of the second player's turn and the end of the game turn be the same thing?

No on end of game roll because it is not a roll you control. Essentially you opponent can make this roll so it cannot be re-rolled.

Interesting point. It just says "one of the players". The implicit assumption is that it doesn't matter which, but by the letter I don't see why it wouldn't.

It wouldn't because then you'd get into a fight with who gets to roll. Just let it go.

 Dracos wrote:
It wouldn't because then you'd get into a fight with who gets to roll. Just let it go.

You got it. Fateweaver's ability only affects rolls that you as a player make during a turn. Things like the end of game roll, the turn 5 nightfighting roll, the mysterious objectives rolls are not something that the players can manipulate (and when they can, the abilities specifically spell that out or don't even involve dice rolls).

Besides, these would be unresolvable if both players had a Fateweaver model.

More or less as above. YOu have no "right" to that roll so if you have fateweaver and I'm your opponent. I will always ask to make the roll then you cannot re-roll it because you did not roll the dice. Then you fight to roll so you can re-roll it etc....

You can only re-roll dice that are "your dice" during game turns.

Technically it doesn't say fate weaver only rerolls it's players dice

sure it does it says "The staff allows you to re-roll a single D6 of your choice." Indicating you must have rolled the dice.

I thought my choice meant whatever D6 that is rolled (his or mines), it is my choice for it to be re rolled.

You cannot re-roll dice you never rolled in the first place. If you look at forcing re-rolls on your opponent it says just that.

Breng77 wrote:
You cannot re-roll dice you never rolled in the first place. If you look at forcing re-rolls on your opponent it says just that.

What page is that on?

Breng77 wrote:
You cannot re-roll dice you never rolled in the first place. If you look at forcing re-rolls on your opponent it says just that.

Sure you can. All it asks is that you re-roll a die of your choosing. RAW there is no restriction on whose die that is. Further, there's nothing in the BRB that hints that you cannot reroll an opponent's die. BRB Pg. 5:

RE-ROLL
"In some situations, the rules allow you to pick up and re-roll a dice. This is exactly what it sounds like - pick up the dice you wish to re-roll, and roll it again. The second roll counts' even if it means a worse result than the first, and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once, regardless of the source of the re-roll."

The rule you cited covers that... It says to pick up the dice and roll it again. If you did not roll the dice to begin with, your not rolling it again.

True, it does say to roll it again, but that's the nature of a re-roll in general. The die has to be rolled again. It just says, "pick up and re-roll a dice," not, "pick up and roll the die again," which would indicate that you rolled the die the first time. Otherwise, I would agree with you.

Note I'm referring to the first sentence. The second indicates to roll it again, but to me that's talking about the actual action of the die being rolled again, not the player who conducts the rolling.

If I roll, and you roll, we have both rolled. No one has rerolled anything.

No, but the die has been rerolled.

I disagree. I think its clear that in order to re-roll something, you need to have rolled it to begin with.

Whats next? Are you going to "reroll" someone else's difficult terrain test? A necron players RP roll? The lucky snap shot a havok squad gets on your flyer?

Yeah, obviously we're not getting anywhere so we'll have to agree to disagree. Even so, I don't even play Chaos Demons, but given the way the rule is written I would expect a player to force me to reroll a passed grounding check on a Flyrant or Crone if he so desired. If indeed all it says is a "dice of your choosing," where is the restriction on where that die came from? If the die is rerolled, that fulfills the requirement. And yes, I think that the situations you laid out capture the point of the rule as written.

When you can prove you rolled it in the first case, in order to roll it again, then you can Reroll it

citadel wrote:
Yeah, obviously we're not getting anywhere so we'll have to agree to disagree. Even so, I don't even play Chaos Demons, but given the way the rule is written I would expect a player to force me to reroll a passed grounding check on a Flyrant or Crone if he so desired. If indeed all it says is a "dice of your choosing," where is the restriction on where that die came from? If the die is rerolled, that fulfills the requirement. And yes, I think that the situations you laid out capture the point of the rule as written.

Except it does not allow me to force you to re-roll a D6, it allows me to re-roll one. So in order for that to happen I would then need to roll your grounding test for you.


But yeah, as others have said if you didn't roll the dice in the first place you can hardly roll it again.

The word reroll doesn't imply who the original actor was.

A blacksmith can reforge a sword that he didn't originally forge
A painter can repaint a house someone else originally painted.
etc..

Shandara,

Nevermind, I withdraw my post, I voiced my opposition to the ideal that only the original player can re-roll a die last time and said I was side-lined this time because I don't want to try and dissect the arguments again this time.

Well, neither do I, but the English language is imprecise in this case as I understand it.

Are you people seriously making the argument that Fateweaver can force his opponent to re-roll a dice? In every other case I can think of where that is possible, it is worded something along the lines of " you may choose to make your opponent re-roll the dice". Because you never touch your opponents dice, you force him to re-roll his dice.

Boils down to semantic nitpicking as far as I see it. I think there is a part of the rule book that says that you shouldn't act like an autist* without having the diagnose, show sportsmanship and not get in fist fights over dice and plastic figures.

*No offense intented

GrafWattenburg wrote:
I think there is a part of the rule book that says that you shouldn't act like an autist* without having the diagnose, show sportsmanship and not get in fist fights over dice and plastic figures. =

That's basically Dakka's MO.

I personally like the idea of Fateweaver being able to re-roll any arbitrary dice during a turn (even weird stuff like nightfighting and the endgame), it seems cool and interesting.

Saying 'no offense' is usually a good indication that:

1) You're about to say something offensive
2) You should probably find a different way to express yourself

GrafWattenburg wrote:
Boils down to semantic nitpicking as far as I see it. I think there is a part of the rule book that says that you shouldn't act like an autist* without having the diagnose, show sportsmanship and not get in fist fights over dice and plastic figures.

*No offense intented

That's not very nice of you...