Help with CSM vs Necrons.

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**Igloo**

Hello,

I am practicing for an upcoming 1750 pt. tournament, and I am playing a game this week against another guy in it.

The only other time I faced necrons I lost, but my list is pretty different now.

Any help on general tactics or things to watch out for in his list would be great.

My List:

Spoiler:

His List and strategy (he posted this on our club forums)

Spoiler:

**GoliothOnline**

Here are some general Tips for dealing with crons.

1) Don't deal with Scythes with ground troops. Str 7 jink-able missiles aren't doing you any favors at 25 points per model. My suggestion is going 2nd purposely, and fly your Drakes over his Night Scythes and get your D3+1 Vector Strikes. These cannot be jinked. And it also saves you points for -

2) Get Tri-Las-Predators. These things wreck vehicles in terms of shots. I always tend to field 2-3 regardless of my list composition simply because of their str 9 goodness. These should make short work of the Barges and Transports. You out range him at his measly 24" vs your 48" Lascannons.

3) Scrap the fuex Nugle Marines. Unless they are actual Plague Marines, they aren't doing you any favors. Get some Cultists if you really want some back line sitting models. They are super cheap and you can just keep them in reserves for a turn, sometimes 2 if you need objectives capped. Replace their point value with something more suited in supporting your forward troops.

4) I counted up your list and found that you had those CSM with Frag / Krak + Flak? but CSM cannot get Flak missiles as only the Havocs have them in their options.

Just pointing this out for future reference.

Tactica Wise, here's your game plan.

Turn 1. Don't do anything that requires you to move towards him. Take pot shots at priority targets like his Annihilation Barges or Ghost Arks. These need to die asap. The Ghost arks are probably a little scarier, but it's going to be a toss up to figure out which ones get closer to you first.

Turn 2 his Flyers come on and probably come straight at you, they shoot at your a bit, throw some warriors out at you and they also shoot at you a bit. That's fine and Dandy. Your turn 2 comes around and you fly your drakes on maximum distance, Vector Strike his Croisants, probably getting some good glances and pens in. Then you Bale Flame anything that's MID FIELD. Nothing in the Cron dex aside from their HQs has a 2+ save to worry about. Wiping out the squad of Immortals and Warriors prevents Reanimation Protocols for them so BAM.

Turn 3 He's going to try and push forward. Your Goal at this point is to circle your drakes around his Vechiles and Vector Strike anything that is Pend, and lost its Quantum Shielding, These will die easily. Continue to Bale Flame anything that is Infantry.

Turn 4-5 Is In the moment.

Hope this helps!

**Igloo**

Ok, here is my revised list:

Spoiler:

The guy I am facing also just posted this in response to someone else' question, outlining his strategy more.

Spoiler:

**GoliothOnline**

It shouldn't be a problem in all honesty.

Most of the time I'm playing my Necron buddy it's either a close game ending in a victory, or straight up victory with lots of fun.

Try to focus your heavier shots on 1 specific target per turn. That way you get rid of a guaranteed threat per turn. Take your time as well when moving your Lord + Spawn. Try to keep them out of LoS as much as possible. Spawn are surprisingly fragile since they don't have armor saves, relying solely on T6 to carry them across the field.

If I can make 1 more suggestion, take away 1 cultist squad and see if you can fit in a Quadgun + D-Line. for 100 points it offers both the Skyfire and 4 str 7 shots against his Flyers and even his Ground Vehicles when they end up getting close.

Hope your game goes well, and remember to have fun what ever the outcome is

**Igloo**

Thanks for the help. Do you have any suggestions for making this list a good all around list for the tournament as opposed to focusing on this opponents list?

**GoliothOnline**

Honestly, tournament wise, I'd say drop CSM all together and roll out the Daemons

Or at least use Daemon Allies XD

But if you really wanna have a good time, I'd say drop the Chaos Lord of Nurgle. Add a Chaos Lord of Khorne on Juggernaught and have HIM accompanied by the Spawn. Give the lord Axe of Blind Fury, he becomes a beat stick that swings at initiative and his attacks are AP2. It's really only about 180 points for a Juggerlord + his upgrades (Sigil + Axe of Blind Fury + GoM)

Another point to put on the table is to make sure when you charge, your Spawn get into B2B with the Lords who have MSS first. That way your Lord forgoes his slaughtering of his own Unit and the weak spawn hits themselves.

Neat trick.

Other than that, really it's going to be luck of the dice. The Hades Auto Cannons on the Forgefiend can really shine on lowering some Hull Points. With 5s to Glance and 6s Pen, you could be laying some serious hurt on him. Just remember, his barges are Open Topped, so your Las Cannons AP2 Adds +1 to the Penetration Table Result, then an additional +1 due to it being Open Topped (+2 in total) so, 4s to blow up!

**Sparkadia**

GoliothOnline wrote:
Honestly, tournament wise, I'd say drop CSM all together and roll out the Daemons Or at least use Daemon Allies XD

But if you really wanna have a good time, I'd say drop the Chaos Lord of Nurgle. Add a Chaos Lord of Khorne on Juggernaught and have HIM accompanied by the Spawn. Give the lord Axe of Blind Fury, he becomes a beat stick that swings at initiative and his attacks are AP2. It's really only about 180 points for a Juggerlord + his upgrades (Sigil + Axe of Blind Fury + GoM)

Another point to put on the table is to make sure when you charge, your Spawn get into B2B with the Lords who have MSS first. That way your Lord forgoes his slaughtering of his own Unit and the weak spawn hits themselves. Neat trick.

Other than that, really it's going to be luck of the dice. The Hades Auto Cannons on the Forgefiend can really shine on lowering some Hull Points. With 5s to Glance and 6s Pen, you could be laying some serious hurt on him. Just remember, his barges are Open Topped, so your Las Cannons AP2 Adds +1 to the Penetration Table Result, then an additional +1 due to it being Open Topped (+2 in total) so, 4s to blow up!

Of note too; Flying Demon Princes. They can really mess with 'only sort-of OK' melee units like Crons. You'll no doubt inflict far more wounds than they will in a fight, and running the unit down prevents any reanimation shenanigans.

**Igloo**

These are good tips. But I have heard some people at the club that think fast armys like eldar(one guy is bringing 6 wave serpents) and other armys like dark eldar that are fast. Do you think mt drakes will be enough?

**GoliothOnline**

Well, if a guy is playing with 6 Wave Serpents, hope he gets matched with a Screamerstar Daemon Player so we can all point and laugh at him later for WAAC! lol Cuz even in a Tournament setting, 6 Wave Serpents is just not fun to play against. PERIOD. It's one of the most Toxic things I've seen in 40k in a long time.

**Igloo**

I agree, he is BY FAR the most competitive guy in our club. Even with our tournament, I doubt anyone will take a list nearly as good. I have demons to take as allies, but I don't feel comfortable enough with the rules yet to take them in a tourney.
In a normal friendly game he takes 6 serpents and 2 of the eldar flyers, so nobody besides one guy plays him now. Said guy gets tabled by turn 3 every time. :(

**Sparkadia**

Man, screw that guy. Just get everyone to decline a game against him. That will quickly make him change his list.

One Demon Prince is far from being a d**k move. They are cool models with cool rules, I'd be upset if you didn't bring one!

**GoliothOnline**

That saddens me.

Or makes me laugh. I can't really tell.

When the game devolves into winning at the cost of an hours wasted time, for your opponent especially, I find there is simply no reason to ever continue playing with said person.

**calypso2ts**

One note on the strategy tip for the MSS avoidance. Since you have no characters in the spawn unit, your Lord must challenge which puts him in b2b with whomever he accepts with. I am sure it will be a basic MSS lord. If you do want to go into combat with the Chaos Lord - be sure to bring along an Aspiring Chamption or Cultists Champion to throw away. Otherwise you are going to wreck yourself.

I like the list overall - I usually bring a Sorcerer whenever I can with CSM - Telepathy can be really game changing/fun. I would consider one at the cost of the Forgefiend and use the extra points to give the Oblits VotLW and add some combi-weapons.

I also like lighting claws on my sgts - but that is more preference. It is a bummer going last in a challenge and the Axe is pretty much only better against a Terminator model bearing a power fist.

**Igloo**

calypso2ts wrote:
One note on the strategy tip for the MSS avoidance. Since you have no characters in the spawn unit, your Lord must challenge which puts him in b2b with whomever he accepts with. I am sure it will be a basic MSS lord. If you do want to go into combat with the Chaos Lord - be sure to bring along an Aspiring Chamption or Cultists Champion to throw away. Otherwise you are going to wreck yourself.

I like the list overall - I usually bring a Sorcerer whenever I can with CSM - Telepathy can be really game changing/fun. I would consider one at the cost of the Forgefiend and use the extra points to give the Oblits VotLW and add some combi-weapons.

I also like lighting claws on my sgts - but that is more preference. It is a bummer going last in a challenge and the Axe is pretty much only better against a Terminator model bearing a power fist.

That is true about the lighting claws, normally i dont bother as plague marines go last anyway, but the go at the same time as necrons.

The oblits do have VotLW by the way, i just forgot to write it.

**GoliothOnline**

Just as a heads up the work around from MSS and being Chaos is the fact that you as a Chaos Lord DO need to issue and accept a challenge, BUT, if you aren't within 2" of a model that is Engaged in Combat, you aren't as well.

This means that once you charge and if your Lord is far enough away that he isn't within 2" of a model in combat, he not only doesn't have to Issue a challenge, he also doesn't get into B2B with the Necron Lord for MSS to affect him.

You can ask around for greater details and confirmation, but this is quite the handy tip to know for Chaos Players to work around getting killed by their own mechanics.

**skoffs**

One note if you use the FMC Daemon: do NOT let a MSS carrier anywhere near him.
He is a single model unit, he WILL wreck himself.
(can not stress this enough)

Luckily he's not using any Storm-tek + Veil-tek combos, otherwise any tactics you had concerning using vehicles would be out the window.

**Igloo**

I heard that if you charge, you can make him use mss before you challenge, is that true?

**GoliothOnline**

Indeed, keep your Lord in the back, more than 2" away from any model that is engaged in combat, and because of your initiative step pile in, you can not only force him to use MSS on a spawn, but you can also pile in and attack with your Lord freely.

**Igloo**

Can they use the mss every turn, or just on the first round of combat?

**Ashiraya**

Every round of combat.

**GoliothOnline**

Every round, this typically helps with the first round greatly however, since your Lord will be obliterating pretty much anything that doesn't have a good Invuln. He has a lot of <100 point Lord type models though so you shouldn't experience too many problems there. The MAIN issue you're going to have is when he starts piling in more and more models to a single fight. Once you start getting 2-3 even 4 Lords Crypteks and what not into a single fight you won't be able to bypass MSS at all.

That's in a way why most CSM lists have natural trouble with Crons, but there are ways around that. You have Oblits which are really nice to blow Ghost Arks up. Once the heavies and Xports are gone you can take Plasma Cannon pot shots at groups of Inf and hopefully render them rather useless.

Btw, keep us posted on how the game went!

**Igloo**

I will, the game is tomorrow. Also, VotLW would be good on the lord to help avoid mss right?

**Imperator_Class**

What? Lords already have LD 10, VotLW wont help in the slightest for MSS.