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can a heldrake shoot at flyers like the flying hive tyrant?

thehitpack wrote:
can a heldrake shoot at flyers like the flying hive tyrant?

You cannot target a flier with the bale flamer per the rules on targeting fliers.

You use it's [INSERT NAME] autocannon against fliers, but why would you ever give that to a heldrake?

what about vector strike

you can vector strike other flyers .

also about the aegis last night in a game i played there where various questions.

1. Does destroying the gun count as a victory point?

2.if a unit manned the gun for infiltrate does that happen automatically or doe that unit have to move into the gun in his phase movment and in the following phase after the infiltrate can he shoot and assult with his normal gun or is he still manning the gun?

3. This is an easy one if an enemy unit is right at the front of the aegis do they recieve the +4 cover save

Firstly, you should post your questions about rules on the You Make Da Call forum.

1. I don't know of any scenario where destroying a fortification gun would award victory points.

2. If a unit has infiltrated within the range it has to be to use the gun (it's probably 1 or 2 inches, can't remember right now) it can use the gun but the gun itself is not "assault" so the unit which has used the gun cannot assault.

3. I think if you're as close as 2" to the aegis defense line you get a cover save from it.

Edit: so yeah, looks like I got stuff wrong.

so just to clarify in the enemy phae i use infitrate and the unit which used it can move in the next phase shoot with his gun but cant assault?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry i meant intercept.

if i intercepted in the enemy phase any model within range can use the gun but in his phase can he move,shoot assault?

thehitpack wrote:
1. Does destroying the gun count as a victory point?

It is not a unit, so does not count for First Blood or other victory conditions.

thehitpack wrote:
2.if a unit manned the gun for infiltrate does that happen automatically or doe that unit have to move into the gun in his phase movment and in the following phase after the infiltrate can he shoot and assult with his normal gun or is he still manning the gun?

In order to fire the gun using Interceptor, the unit must be in base contact with the gun already. The gun cannot then fire in the next player turn, but can (weirdly) be fired by the opponent in the current player turn if they manage to get a model in base contact with it too.
In the following turn the unit that fired the Quad can move away and fire their own weaponry / assault as normal, they do not have to remain with the Quad.

thehitpack wrote:
3. This is an easy one if an enemy unit is right at the front of the aegis do they recieve the +4 cover save

Use True Line of Sight. If the enemy is 25% obscured they get a cover save, if not they don't.

what about models behind the aegis do they get a +
4 save regardless?

thehitpack wrote:
what about models behind the aegis do they get a +
4 save regardless?

No. For instance a Flyer quite close to the aegis could potentially see models that are directly behind the wall, and see more than 75% so they get no base cover save. They could still Go to Ground and receive the +2 from the Aegis special rule though (for a 5+ save).

so to clarify the aegis is terrain that provides cover and any unit friend or foe recieves a save is they are 25% obscures by the aegis. does that not kinda defeat the principle of the line for the unit that owns they are basically giving there enemy a free cover save?

thehitpack wrote:
so to clarify the aegis is terrain that provides cover and any unit friend or foe recieves a save is they are 25% obscures by the aegis. does that not kinda defeat the principle of the line for the unit that owns they are basically giving there enemy a free cover save?

Why? If the unit behind the line are close enough to it, they can see over without the wall obscuring the enemy. LoS is taken from the models eyes after all.

It only becomes an issue if your unit is some distance from the wall. True line of sight at all times remember.

the way i see it if i have cultists they can hardly see over the wall therfore the unitss they ar shooting at get there cover save also if you where checking TRLOS for every model a lot of debate goes into how much each model can see and then when units are wounded if there wounds still count because now the mdels are obscured due the visible ones being removed

Some units have 0% vision when it comes to the wall, due to their small size, and can not even fire at all.

Your remarks on Wound Allocation also make little sense, so please elaborate what you mean by Wounds not counting in situations with mixed cover saves due to being obscure?

if a squad behind the aegis is firing at a squad in front of it and certain models can be seen with no save while some have the +4 save and they are all destroyed the ones that are completely invisible get no wounds taken on them. True?

Also how much debate would go into how much of a model is obscured or not 25% of a model how would that be decided?

What if one model in the firing unit can completey see an enemy model but then one is destroyed. If any one friendly model can see an enemy model behind the aegis then they get no save whatsoever?

The cover rules say that if a model is 25% obscured from the point of view of AT LEAST ONE of the shooting models then it gets a cover save. This can speed up the "do they have cover?" discussion, since you only have to find one example of that model getting cover (from just one of your models) for it to get a cover save

Firstly, you can allocate a wound against any enemy model that can be at least partially seen by the shooting unit. If a model is completely invisible to the firing unit, it cannot be allocated a wound (some exceptions - such as Blasts - apply). - BRB page 16 Out of Sight

Secondly, if an enemy model is at least 25% obscured from the point of view (LoS) of any firing model, it gets a cover save against every shot in that attack. Even if that firing model misses or fails to wound. - BRB page 18 Determining Cover Saves
If shooting 10 marines at 10 orks, if the orks are completely visible to 9 marines, but obscured from one marine, all the orks get to take cover saves against all 10 marine's shots (you can choose not to fire that one marine to avoid this)

The 25% is worked out as 25% of the target's body (as described on BRB page 8).
For the sake of not taking an entire day to play the game, I try to be approximate here. Avoid unnecessary wrangling, be generous when working out opponent's saves and don't blow your cool when it's your turn to be shot at.

Thank you Qyanar, Well said.

ok i understand

a couple more questions

Does the aegis have to be one continous line or several broken up?

also my opponent told me his flying hive tyrant gets skyfire after moving i think 18" is this true?

A flying monstrous creature Swooping (moving 12"-24") can choose to have skyfire yeah.
ADL must be continuous , from the FAQ I think.

where does it say this thing about skyfire aso where does it specifically say a vector strike can wound a zooming flyer

Skyfire for FMCs is in the FAQ ,and VS states it outright IIRC.
You should really just read the whole FAQ through though

can a heldrake only zoom or glide and if it suffers locked velocity can it vector strike and use its weapons?

what speed is it locked at if it moved 18" is it that or must it move 36" every turn?

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3440036a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.5_September_13.pdf

Q: Can you deploy the Aegis Defence Line sections in two or more groups of two or more sections apiece (this way, they will still be in base contact with at least one other section)? (p114)
A: No – the Aegis defence line sections must be deployed in an unbroken chain, though they can be connected end-to-end such as in the example shown on page 114.

Q: Flyers are entitled to choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each Shooting phase. Can Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures also do this? (p49)
A: Yes.

Q: If a Flyer suffers Locked Velocity and was moving at Cruising Speed (18"-36"), what speed is its velocity actually locked at? (p81)
A: 36".

Locked Velocity has no effect on the ability of the Heldrake to VS or shoot, since there is nothing in the Locked Velocity rules that tell us it does.