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2014/03/09 21:10:44
Subject: Re:What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
Destroy to create. Wreak havoc upon the infrastructure and bring life anew. Break through all barriers to realize there were no barriers. Realize there were only treacherous games. Learn the entirety of the game. Find the game makers; find the dick traitors/dictators.
Explode unto thy betrayers - ruin all their materials, dethrone and desecrate their persona, crush and manipulate their force, squeeze and torture their ideals to redirect their goals so as to dominate their souls, extract and perfect their fear so as to mitigate their strength and amplify their weakness.
Cut out the sickness, then imprison the wardens. Sing the song blood red and true. Create their destruction.
All for the hunt to dominate.
2014/03/10 09:56:17
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Do not underestimate the sheer body horror available in the setting.
Imagine placing a beetle slightly smaller than your fist on your chest.
Now said beetle proceeds to very rapidly burrow down into your chest, straight through the bone, into your soft, fuzzy insides, and makes a nasty mess in there.
Zweischneid wrote: More humour. More Crazy. More Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau.
Less bone-dry, overtly serious Horus-Heresy-style boredom.
This. Partly it needs to go back to the silliness. Also it needs to go back to the dry satire and more adult references of the past. The byzantine bureaucracy, the systems crumbling under their own weight, the empire on the verge of failure. Unfortunately the days of subtle political satire and historical referencing are probably gone, mostly because most players won't get them at best, or at worst will be upset by them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
scarletsquig wrote: I'd like to see some graphic depictions of the Warp, and battles set within it.
Thats the point of the warp. It is unimaginable. It is a place of nonsensical geometry and unmappable dimensions. If someone dose give that kind of information thats the point at which GW will have gone too far in dumming down and making it "kiddy friendly".
Yes, that's why it's quite so embarassing. For some reason, they think that tabloid BDSM is the best way to display utter depravity.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2014/03/10 16:11:33
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
More ham, more silliness, more self awareness of how ridiculous it is. Maybe not strike legion levels of parodic tongue in cheek humor, but the setting really needs to figure out that it's inherently ridiculous.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
2014/03/12 20:30:01
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
Manchu wrote:A great example of humor in the right time and place, IMO, is the newcrons dex.
Are you being ironic?
Do you mean sarcastic? No to both. I am talking about the note Trazyn wrote to Inquisitor Valeria. I also think it's all kinds of awesome that Ward gave Valeria a tesseract labyrinth in the GK dex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/12 20:30:19
Manchu wrote:A great example of humor in the right time and place, IMO, is the newcrons dex.
Are you being ironic?
Do you mean sarcastic? No to both. I am talking about the note Trazyn wrote to Inquisitor Valeria. I also think it's all kinds of awesome that Ward gave Valeria a tesseract labyrinth in the GK dex.
I forget, what was the note again?
2014/03/12 23:34:00
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
He thanks her for sending him a bunch of guys from whatever IG regiment "for his collection" and returns the favor by sending her the labyrinth, telling her to enjoy it if she ever escapes.
I remember reading a few editions ago about the 13th founding (some random excerpt in the 4th ed rulebook I think) and how scary it was when the Cursed Founding chapters would do their Chaos-y Renegade thing to planets. Or the one time the Night Lords scared 11 billion people to death, that sort of stuff makes 40k that much more...I dunno, horrible.
The Fall of Orpheus (most recent FW book I think) was AMAZING I thought, It really brought the Necrons back to their roots of unfeeling, uncaring, death machines from space what with their shutting off comms to an entire sector of space? The subsequent lifting of that comms blackout and the psychic screams that followed? Made my skin crawl and I loved it.
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
2014/03/13 05:54:11
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
Manchu wrote: He thanks her for sending him a bunch of guys from whatever IG regiment "for his collection" and returns the favor by sending her the labyrinth, telling her to enjoy it if she ever escapes.
Yes, I remember now. Well, looks like she did. It all worked out in the end I guess...
2014/03/13 06:18:51
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
I remember reading a few editions ago about the 13th founding (some random excerpt in the 4th ed rulebook I think) and how scary it was when the Cursed Founding chapters would do their Chaos-y Renegade thing to planets. Or the one time the Night Lords scared 11 billion people to death, that sort of stuff makes 40k that much more...I dunno, horrible.
The Fall of Orpheus (most recent FW book I think) was AMAZING I thought, It really brought the Necrons back to their roots of unfeeling, uncaring, death machines from space what with their shutting off comms to an entire sector of space? The subsequent lifting of that comms blackout and the psychic screams that followed? Made my skin crawl and I loved it.
Forgeworld did an absolutely stupendous job with the Maynarkh Dynasty.
I like it best when they balance the good and bad. Really, they work best when they play off each other, because it creates a tension and actual drama (if things can be good, you actually have something to lose, whereas unceasing grimdark becomes repetitive once you become 'acclimated' to it. it can even become very hollow and artificial feeling if it is utilized as a fake sort of 'drama' - 'oh look another meaninglessly huge statistic of people died somehwere, isn't this a horrible place?') A world that has been peaceful, relatively content, and productive for millenia or centuries (perhaps forgetting what sort of galaxy they live in) suddenly being attacked by aliens, chaos, whatever.. their peoples enslaved, slaughtered, sacrificed, whatever.... that can be traumatic and dramatic if we are shown what they suffer, having their lives thrown out of order and shattered. And it can become more tense or desperate as people try to fight back, to protect others or preserve something of their culture/society against an encroaching enemy... maybe it gives you false hope (will they survive/victorious, or will they fail? If everyone constantly dies/gests sacrificed/planet blows up, it again becomes predictable and repetitive and it will lose its emotional impact.)
I suppose in short, that theme and narrative are important more than anything.. having some actual substance. Show, don't tell, and for me many of the BL authors I like most follow that principle.
2014/03/17 08:11:29
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
This is an Iron Warrior. If he fails to notice you, you are blessed and may die a painful and short death at the hands of the current enemy, Orks, Guardsmen, Tyranids, or maybe another Janissary. Or maybe you'll survive, continue to eat the paste made from the ground up bodies of your fellow human slaves of the Iron Warriors- the dead and the sickly. Maybe you'll live long enough to rise up the ranks of the Janissary force, slowly bleeding away all empathy and sympathy as you learn the most effective way to survive is to torture and brutalize your own men into action to ensure an Iron Warrior doesn't immediately execute you for failing to meet their exponentially increasing standards. Or maybe your commanding officer will simply shoot you to make an example out of you to motivate the men and ensure that he isn't executed by the Iron Warriors.
Or maybe he will notice you, deciding that your pitiful existence has somehow offended him. Maybe he'll simply back-hand you like the pathetic wretch you are, pasting your thoughts against the wall behind you, spilling out your futile hopes and wishes for all to see in their raw, organic form. Or maybe he'll decide a true example needs to be made to terrify the mortals- impale your hands on meat-hooks and lower you into a pit of molten slag by a centimeter for each ten seconds, maybe even electrocuting you as you are slowly lowered into the molten pool of metal. Or maybe he'll decide that his cape of raw human flesh needs mending, and decides to skin you live with his combat knife for all to see as true nudity is exposed, removing the epidermis and chucking a gibbering chunk of muscle on the ground to be picked up and churned into food for the rest of the men while the Iron Warrior stitches your hide together to complete his fleshy garments. Or maybe he'll decide that daemon technology of his requires sacrifice, and that you must be slowly sucked clean of all blood by servitors to then be washed over the possessed technology, ensuring that you survive the process to feel limbs go dry and watch as your life force washes and feeds the cursed machine.
So no, Chaos is indeed perfect as it. GW simply needs to stop beating around the bush and straight out reveal the favorable pastimes of Chaos Space Marines and Cultists of Chaos.
This is a child's idea of horror, "oh, the big, spiky man with the red eyes is gonna hurt you, isn't that scary?".
In the horror genre, less is more.
That said, I'd also like some more over the top, daemonculaba-esque, violence.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/17 08:12:13
This is an Iron Warrior. If he fails to notice you, you are blessed and may die a painful and short death at the hands of the current enemy, Orks, Guardsmen, Tyranids, or maybe another Janissary. Or maybe you'll survive, continue to eat the paste made from the ground up bodies of your fellow human slaves of the Iron Warriors- the dead and the sickly. Maybe you'll live long enough to rise up the ranks of the Janissary force, slowly bleeding away all empathy and sympathy as you learn the most effective way to survive is to torture and brutalize your own men into action to ensure an Iron Warrior doesn't immediately execute you for failing to meet their exponentially increasing standards. Or maybe your commanding officer will simply shoot you to make an example out of you to motivate the men and ensure that he isn't executed by the Iron Warriors.
Or maybe he will notice you, deciding that your pitiful existence has somehow offended him. Maybe he'll simply back-hand you like the pathetic wretch you are, pasting your thoughts against the wall behind you, spilling out your futile hopes and wishes for all to see in their raw, organic form. Or maybe he'll decide a true example needs to be made to terrify the mortals- impale your hands on meat-hooks and lower you into a pit of molten slag by a centimeter for each ten seconds, maybe even electrocuting you as you are slowly lowered into the molten pool of metal. Or maybe he'll decide that his cape of raw human flesh needs mending, and decides to skin you live with his combat knife for all to see as true nudity is exposed, removing the epidermis and chucking a gibbering chunk of muscle on the ground to be picked up and churned into food for the rest of the men while the Iron Warrior stitches your hide together to complete his fleshy garments. Or maybe he'll decide that daemon technology of his requires sacrifice, and that you must be slowly sucked clean of all blood by servitors to then be washed over the possessed technology, ensuring that you survive the process to feel limbs go dry and watch as your life force washes and feeds the cursed machine.
So no, Chaos is indeed perfect as it. GW simply needs to stop beating around the bush and straight out reveal the favorable pastimes of Chaos Space Marines and Cultists of Chaos.
This is a child's idea of horror, "oh, the big, spiky man with the red eyes is gonna hurt you, isn't that scary?".
In the horror genre, less is more.
That said, I'd also like some more over the top, daemonculaba-esque, violence.
Horror by its very nature, is never scary. The best you can aim for is disturbing and senseless butchery of human life to jar the reader from their position where by modern culture, they normally value human life. Less is more doesn't work (or at least for me) as desensitizing to violence forces you to go bigger and bigger where "less" doesn't even invoke an emotion. The best you could ever do is describe up a person before a Chaos invasion. Describe his love for his family, and while his life's tough, it ain't terrible and he'll probably live to see his sixties, and most of his children will survive. Describe their aspirations and dreams, their loves and losses. Their motivations, everything about them, build them into a person.
Cut to a Night Lord forcing the parents to kill their own children for the Night Lord to go on wearing their corpses, and leaving the Parents a rusted nail to commit suicide with.
But yeah, I can't even comprehend how less horror would be more.... just... no, can't. It doesn't even invoke emotion in me, say something like boredom. Of course, excessive violence is also boring, but you can only pursue actually disturbing yourself and maybe invoking some degree of horror in you with more. But how the hell is less more? You have any examples? (Terribly confused here.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/17 10:25:52
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2014/03/17 11:19:37
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
And scrapping of the entire HH series and literal burning of all the books. That alone will improve the HH setting no end, as it will instantly make it legendary and unknown.
Also, make the staff deny that such a series exists or ever existed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/17 11:21:41
hello
2014/03/17 11:26:51
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
Get Sandy Mitchell and Araon Demnski Bowden to write some of the Codex fluff - that would make me happy..........we get some more humour tinged with the contrasting darkness (which makes both more effective IMO) and most importantly we would get some more good female characters as both tend to have plenty in their novels.........
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/17 11:28:40
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Mr Morden wrote: Get Sandy Mitchell [...] to write some of the Codex fluff
As long as he stays well away from the SoB.
Mr Morden wrote: we get some more humour tinged with the contrasting darkness (which makes both more effective IMO)
Hmm. Maybe not quite to the levels we see in the Cain books. I'd rather keep towards to the darker and more subtle humour, myself. Though I'm certainly not opposed to some slightly more outright comedy being sprinkled around, just wouldn't want it becoming too prominent.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/17 11:40:30
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
2014/03/17 11:39:29
Subject: Re:What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
I've found I'm leaning towards pretty much all three (though mostly horror).
Honestly, I'm more looking for more of the over the top nature of the fluff (despite 40k already being astronomically over the top the way it is).
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
2014/03/17 11:41:23
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
I want more grim dark and less Space Marine fanwank. I mean, this is supposed to be the end of humanity, with The biggest Ork WAAGH ever made about to attack Armageddon, Hive Fleet Leviathan about to overwhelm the Eastern Fringe and the Traitor Legions who have broken Segmentum Obscuras and Pascificus and are coming for Terra. I want the feeling of hopelessness and doom back.
2014/03/17 11:49:40
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
Mr Morden wrote: Get Sandy Mitchell [...] to write some of the Codex fluff
As long as he stays well away from the SoB.
Mr Morden wrote: we get some more humour tinged with the contrasting darkness (which makes both more effective IMO)
Hmm. Maybe not quite to the levels we see in the Cain books. I'd rather keep towards to the darker and more subtle humour, myself. Though I'm certainly not opposed to some slightly more outright comedy being sprinkled around, just wouldn't want it becoming too prominent.
I think bits like this would be fine:
Spoiler:
"A party of youths was down at the firing range, blowing cardboard targets to confetti, under the watchful eye of one of the drill abbots, while over to our left a squad of early adolescents was embarking on a run up one of the nearby mountains, urged on by their proctors. The familiar shape of the black painted truck from the local judiciary making its way up the winding track that lead to our gates, with it weekly delivery of condemned criminals for the interrogation, execution and live fire exercises."
(a nice pleasent day in the Schola involves children using criminals for target practice and torture)
"Although most recruits to the Adepta Sororitas are, of course trained at their in their own convents, its by no means unusual to have a Battle Sister or two attached to a schola progenium, since many of the girls taken in by them are likely to feel a calling to join their ranks.They would see to their initial induction , assessing which of the aspirants were best suited to the Ordos Millitant, Hospitaller, Famulous, or what have you and which were better redirected along other paths entirely"
This actually makes sense to me?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
That part about the firing range doesn't seem out of place with the usual 40K stuff, really. That'd fit right in, I'd say. More stuff like that would be fine.
Sorry, can't really trust him with the Sisters, myself. Though in the interest of not going off on a huge tangent, I think it's best we agree to disagree, for now.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
2014/03/17 12:21:57
Subject: What element needs to increased in 40K (horror, scifi, fantasy)?
Sadly GW seems to moving more and more away from female characters in the tabletop game even as they are prevelant in the actual BL fluff..............
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
3rd Company (3000 points) 
2375
/ 
WIP (1875)
1300
760
WIP (350)
WIP (150) 
Emperor's Children: 1500+ pts
Custodes: 1000+ pts 
