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I am playing Vassal WH40K with a friend of mine, we both are playing more fluff casual lists rather than competitive lists. We are even doing a kind of narrative with our fist game being 500 pt.s SM vs. SoB that I won in large part due to having a chapter master w/terminator armor, storm shield, and thunder hammer making him almost invincible at that level with casual lists and the fact that he was dealing out murderous levels of damage. I am thinking I therefore want to keep it more of an elite army but am taking what I learned from the first game we played in which I saw numbers at range being horrifyingly effective where her SoBs easily matched and exceeded the ability of my SMs with their superior numbers forcing me to close where the tables turned heavily in my favor.

I had a few main worries when making this list, getting outgunned at range and cut down before closing, having too few models and get swamped by numbers, and that I know she is bringing at least 2 repentia squad as she is a huge repentia fan. I know this is not the most competitive list but was wondering if anyone was willing to help me a little here looking at it maybe making it a bit more elite and better able to close for melee. As it stands I planned to use the havocs and obliterators to hit her at range and make her close for the CSMs to charge in and let my Chaos Lord go for anything really nice she has like tanks or HQs. A main idea I have is taking Imperial Guard as allies in place of my current heavy support choices though I am rather rough on the allies rules.


HQ:

Chaos Lord
- Terminator Armor
- Chainfist
- Lightning Claw
- Mark of Khorne

Troops:

CSM Squad
- 6 CSM
- 1 Champ
- 6 CCW
- Gift of Mutation
- Mark of Khorne

CSM Squad
- 6 CSM
- 1 Champ
- 6 CCW
- Gist of Mutation

CSM Squad
- 6 CSM
- 1 Champ
- 6 CCW
- Gist of Mutation

Heavy Support:

Obliterators
- 2 obliterators

Havoc Marines
- 4 havoc Marines
- 1 Aspiring Champion
- 4 autocannon

Havoc Marines
- 4 havoc Marines
- 1 Aspiring Champion
- 4 Missile launcher

I don't think you can have two chainfists - and even if you could, I'm pretty sure it won't do you any good: IIRC, chainfists won't give you an extra attack in melee regardless. I might be wrong there, but it still seems like a waste of points - just get a pistol instead.

Why would I not be able to have 2 chainfists or not get an attack from them?


I have no problem changing the weapon choice or even complete HQ choice, I chose the Chaos Lord since he seemed like the best option and just went with 2 chainfists because I wanted him to hit really hard in melee and near the end I was not sure what to spend points on so just threw in little things like the chainfists and the lone mark of Khorne.

Assuming you can take 2 chainfists, you would get the extra attack (they are both specialist weapons and 2 specialist weapons = +1 attack).

However, you can only "use" one weapon at a time in combat, so having 2 of the same is pointless. You'd be better off if you can get a chainfist + (some other specialist weapon) so you can choose which one to use depending on the target.

** Edit : Just read the codex entry - You may replace the Terminator Chaos Lords power weapon with a (single) Chainfist. There is no option for a 2nd chainfist. You can have 2 Lightning Claws (by replacing the TL Bolter + Power Weapon) OR you can have a TL Bolter (or Combi Weapon) + Powerfist/Chainfist/Lightning Claw/Daemon Weapon (one of those).

Rorschach9 wrote:
Assuming you can take 2 chainfists, you would get the extra attack (they are both specialist weapons and 2 specialist weapons = +1 attack).

However, you can only "use" one weapon at a time in combat, so having 2 of the same is pointless. You'd be better off if you can get a chainfist + (some other specialist weapon) so you can choose which one to use depending on the target.

** Edit : Just read the codex entry - You may replace the Terminator Chaos Lords power weapon with a (single) Chainfist. There is no option for a 2nd chainfist. You can have 2 Lightning Claws (by replacing the TL Bolter + Power Weapon) OR you can have a TL Bolter (or Combi Weapon) + Powerfist/Chainfist/Lightning Claw/Daemon Weapon (one of those).

That does make sense then to go with lightning claws and a chainfist then.

I do not see where I cannot have 2 chainfists though, when getting terminator armor it says I can replace the combi-bolter with a chainfist for 27 pts. and the power weapon for a chainfist at 15 pts unless I am reading something wrong.

Omega7142 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
Assuming you can take 2 chainfists, you would get the extra attack (they are both specialist weapons and 2 specialist weapons = +1 attack).

However, you can only "use" one weapon at a time in combat, so having 2 of the same is pointless. You'd be better off if you can get a chainfist + (some other specialist weapon) so you can choose which one to use depending on the target.

** Edit : Just read the codex entry - You may replace the Terminator Chaos Lords power weapon with a (single) Chainfist. There is no option for a 2nd chainfist. You can have 2 Lightning Claws (by replacing the TL Bolter + Power Weapon) OR you can have a TL Bolter (or Combi Weapon) + Powerfist/Chainfist/Lightning Claw/Daemon Weapon (one of those).

That does make sense then to go with lightning claws and a chainfist then.

I do not see where I cannot have 2 chainfists though, when getting terminator armor it says I can replace the combi-bolter with a chainfist for 27 pts. and the power weapon for a chainfist at 15 pts unless I am reading something wrong.

I may have been looking at an older codex (it was a very quick grab and look to be fair).
If it does indeed say that (after taking terminator armour) you can replace the bolter for a chainfist and you may replace the power weapon for a chainfist, then yes, you can take two chainfists. But again, not worth having 2 of the same specialist weapon as it gives you no real benefit over taking 2 different specialist weapons.

Rorschach9 wrote:

Omega7142 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
Assuming you can take 2 chainfists, you would get the extra attack (they are both specialist weapons and 2 specialist weapons = +1 attack).

However, you can only "use" one weapon at a time in combat, so having 2 of the same is pointless. You'd be better off if you can get a chainfist + (some other specialist weapon) so you can choose which one to use depending on the target.

** Edit : Just read the codex entry - You may replace the Terminator Chaos Lords power weapon with a (single) Chainfist. There is no option for a 2nd chainfist. You can have 2 Lightning Claws (by replacing the TL Bolter + Power Weapon) OR you can have a TL Bolter (or Combi Weapon) + Powerfist/Chainfist/Lightning Claw/Daemon Weapon (one of those).

That does make sense then to go with lightning claws and a chainfist then.

I do not see where I cannot have 2 chainfists though, when getting terminator armor it says I can replace the combi-bolter with a chainfist for 27 pts. and the power weapon for a chainfist at 15 pts unless I am reading something wrong.

I may have been looking at an older codex (it was a very quick grab and look to be fair).
If it does indeed say that (after taking terminator armour) you can replace the bolter for a chainfist and you may replace the power weapon for a chainfist, then yes, you can take two chainfists. But again, not worth having 2 of the same specialist weapon as it gives you no real benefit over taking 2 different specialist weapons.

Okay, I will probably go with a lightning claw then so I can get the extra attack and go earlier. Do you have any other ideas regarding my list? As I have said I am new and just went with a general idea as well as trying to cover the most obvious weaknesses.

Also, no offense, don't take the mark of khorne on your champ.
"But I get an extra attack" he says
"You also will probably get shot to death before getting said extra attack" he retorts
I would go with Surprise surprise, the mark of Nurgle just for the added survive-ability.
If your building a cc orientated army you should give them a better chance of surviving the trip. (Rhinos are okay at best but not for assault armies)

1: Khorne is a bad mark unless youre a Lord on a Juggernaut with the Axe if Blind Fury. That man, that is -good-. Bad doesnt mean worthless though. Just bad compared to other options.

2: Normal Chaos Marines are also "bad". Your best Troops are Cultists because they are so cheap. They are scoring units and distractions. Then using a marked Lord to bring in Plague Marines or Noise Marines is the other "best" option. Fearless and Feel no Pain help close the gap between Loyal Marines.

3: Obliterators are amazing! But -require- Mark of Nurgle and Veterans of Long War. The Nurgle toughness boost and Vets for the Leadership boost.

4: Havok Squads need to be kept cheapish if you use them at all. You still have to buy extra bodies to put in front of the special weapon holders. Personally I dont like them but they are a decent choice. Missiles however are not cost effective most people say. I agree.

5: Gift of Mutation is too Random to pay for. For the points Id always stick more bodies in a squad. They will always provide extra wounds, attacks, and possibly mean the difference between scoring an objective or not.

6: Heldrakes are the best unit in the entire (arguably worst in the game) codex. Take a close look at them Belakor Dataslate, Daemon Prince with the Black Mace, Typhus, Nurgle Bikers, -Unmarked- Sorcerers, Predator Tanks and Chaos Spawn are worth your time to look at too.