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Hi, I used to play warmachine when it came out and stopped playing around the release of the mk1 remix book. I've been thinking about the getting back into the game. I played menoth before and still have most of my old models. I was curious how much they might of changed in the mk2 rules. I also have considered starting a highborn merc army an interested in thoughts of the pro/cons on that army.

Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts

I never played Mk I. I started just as MK II came out. But Menoth are very competitive. They have some top tier casters like Harbinger, excellent jacks like Avatar and Reckoner and top grade units like Errants.

As for Mercs, they are fine, just limited. Especially if you are going to limit yourself to one contract. The biggest drawback is that mercs never get the attention as far as releases that the main factions get.

The best news I can give you is that the game is pretty well balanced. But how you build your army may change as, from what I have heard, not everything works exactly like it did before.

I played a few games of MK1 and didnt like it.

MKII has been nothing but fantastic. The rules are still tight and the point system has been refined to make army building easy (except the whole what to squeeze in thing).

The biggest difference is that the feats have been turned down so that its not the crazy wild west that was MKI.

The rules changed quite a bit from Mk1 to Mk2.

You can purchase the Faction Deck from PP which will contain all the Mk2 cards for models that existed in Mk1. But I recommend Warroom instead. Its an App that you can buy the entire Faction decks on(the physical decks only contain models that existed when Mk2 was released) which includes all the models for that faction. Only about $8 per deck and you can buy them all for a steep discount.

The App also has list building and damage tracking capability and its the only official tournament sanctioned alternative to physical cards.


Menoth is definitely competitive, all factions are.

One change you'll notice is how points work.

Instead of casters costing points, they give you a certain number of Warjack/Warbeast points. basically a discount on the number of points you spend on warjacks/warbeasts. So a warcaster with 5 jack points gives you 5 extra points you can only spend on Jacks

Point costs are also dramatically lower. The typical solo costs 2 points, some powerful solos cost 3-5 or even only 1.

Most of the battle boxes hover around the 11 point level of their contents. The Menoth starter(Kreoss1, Crusader, Revenger, and Repenter) is 11 points. Kreoss1 is 5 Jack points, Crusader is 6, Revenger is 6, and Repenter is 4. The Crusader is the cheapest of the Menoth heavies. The rest clock in at 8 points except the Sanctifier and Guardian which are 9. The Avatar is a mighty 11. The Protectorate runs jacks better than anyone except Cyriss, as the saying goes "The Reckoner is the best 10 point jack in the game that only costs 8 points!"

Units are also a little different. They can only be purchased in 2 sizes if the option exists. Minimum or maximum, so they have 2 point costs on the card. Not like Mk1 where you could add individual grunts for a certain cost. An example would be Errants, which are 6 points for a min unit of 6 and 8 for a max unit of 10.

The typical point level of the game is 35 or 50 for normal games, with 50 being the tournament standard.

One major change was that models can spend Focus/Fury to shake certain effects like Stationary and Knockdown.

Epic Warcasters also changed. There are no restrictions on their use. They can be used at any time and at any point level.

 Mordekiem wrote:

As for Mercs, they are fine, just limited. Especially if you are going to limit yourself to one contract. The biggest drawback is that mercs never get the attention as far as releases that the main factions get.

They were on an attention run for a bit there if you were someone that collected and played all contracts. From the start of MK2 they've kept up with the main factions release wise until now. Vengeance isn't doing them any favors though with no Warjack (other than the Rhulic Colossal) or Warcaster release. I think what had me the most disappointed is that PP had been shining a light on Mercs in the past year with a lot of their fiction and then didn't follow up with accompanying releases in Vengeance.

 derek wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:

As for Mercs, they are fine, just limited. Especially if you are going to limit yourself to one contract. The biggest drawback is that mercs never get the attention as far as releases that the main factions get.

They were on an attention run for a bit there if you were someone that collected and played all contracts. From the start of MK2 they've kept up with the main factions release wise until now. Vengeance isn't doing them any favors though with no Warjack (other than the Rhulic Colossal) or Warcaster release. I think what had me the most disappointed is that PP had been shining a light on Mercs in the past year with a lot of their fiction and then didn't follow up with accompanying releases in Vengeance.

Yes, PP has really been terrible to Mercs lately, after all they only have twice the number of Colossals as all the other factions and instead of a new Warcaster they only get to have an entirely new sub-faction... Poor, poor Merc players...

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the Cephylyx. So yeah, they are getting attention if you are willing to play a variety of contracts.

But if you look at it from the POV of a single contract then there is no way they are keeping up.

Mercs get alot of Love If you play Mercenaries.

If you play Dwarves or highborne.. and restrict yourself, then its going to feel slow.


I play everything but Pirates in Mercs.. so i feel like i actually get more than the "Normal" factions.


You just have to remember with mercs..
You do not have that Er my gosh Caster like Ehaley, Denny, Harbinger etc.

 Spyder68 wrote:

You just have to remember with mercs..
You do not have that Er my gosh Caster like Ehaley, Denny, Harbinger etc.

You obviously haven't played McBain enough.

Tarot wrote:

 Spyder68 wrote:

You just have to remember with mercs..
You do not have that Er my gosh Caster like Ehaley, Denny, Harbinger etc.

You obviously haven't played McBain enough.

In addition to this I would imagine that many jaws were dropped after a Gorten feat turn...

PhantomViper wrote:

 derek wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:

As for Mercs, they are fine, just limited. Especially if you are going to limit yourself to one contract. The biggest drawback is that mercs never get the attention as far as releases that the main factions get.

They were on an attention run for a bit there if you were someone that collected and played all contracts. From the start of MK2 they've kept up with the main factions release wise until now. Vengeance isn't doing them any favors though with no Warjack (other than the Rhulic Colossal) or Warcaster release. I think what had me the most disappointed is that PP had been shining a light on Mercs in the past year with a lot of their fiction and then didn't follow up with accompanying releases in Vengeance.

Yes, PP has really been terrible to Mercs lately, after all they only have twice the number of Colossals as all the other factions and instead of a new Warcaster they only get to have an entirely new sub-faction... Poor, poor Merc players...

They were! They totally made us think we were getting Rex(or the Toro)...and maybe an updated Rutger and Tara (who got an update to make her better for Cygnar and Protectorate at least).

There is very good options for casters in our faction.. but still.. there is no edennies, ehaleys egaspy etc. Its kind of odd to even think we have a caster 1-1 on that power level.

Yes ive done alot with Macbain and gorton.. its not the same.

 Spyder68 wrote:

There is very good options for casters in our faction.. but still.. there is no edennies, ehaleys egaspy etc. Its kind of odd to even think we have a caster 1-1 on that power level.

Yes ive done alot with Macbain and gorton.. its not the same.

I disagree. Ashlynn DʼElyse is just as powerful a caster as any of those you've mentioned and I'm constantly surprised that Merc players don't use her more.

Thanks to everyone for your reply's and thoughts