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 doomdreamer wrote:
Heck, I am still not convinced that is the Emperor on the throne and not just some random body or Horus' body.

Given that people have actually spoken with him personally in the Throne room since his internment we can be safe in knowing its him.

I am still unsure about the Emperor. Either he is a colossal failure or he has some kind of insanely complex plan that no one sees yet.

I don't think his situation is quite so this-or-that.

I don't think he was planning on being interred in the Golden Throne, but now that he is, he has adapted to the new realities of his condition, and is availing himself of all of the new things that being a Warp Entity permits him to.

He might have been an agnostic in life, but he's also a very practical man, and he would be a fool to *not* tap into the Warp energy being fed to him by the worship and veneration of quintillions.

the Emperor wasn't an athiest or agnostic, he knew the chaos gods were there, but just wanted to weaken their hold on humanity.

The current fluff posits the GC as the Age of Reason vs the Dark Ages. The current depiction of the Emperor, via BL, paints him as some arch-atheist (even though he isn't, at best he's an agnostic).

There is the theme (however erroneous) that the "Imperial Truth" is that there is no such thing as gods, and mankind should follow the guidance of science and reason... even though the Emperor has met the things that call themselves the Gods of Chaos. His counter, of course, is that they are just super-powerful aliens from another dimension, not gods, as gods don't exist... this is a kind of agnosticism, as it does not deny the existence of these things, but simply that they are not supreme deific beings. Which is basically a semantic argument.

 Psienesis wrote:
The current fluff posits the GC as the Age of Reason vs the Dark Ages. The current depiction of the Emperor, via BL, paints him as some arch-atheist (even though he isn't, at best he's an agnostic).

There is the theme (however erroneous) that the "Imperial Truth" is that there is no such thing as gods, and mankind should follow the guidance of science and reason... even though the Emperor has met the things that call themselves the Gods of Chaos. His counter, of course, is that they are just super-powerful aliens from another dimension, not gods, as gods don't exist... this is a kind of agnosticism, as it does not deny the existence of these things, but simply that they are not supreme deific beings. Which is basically a semantic argument.

hmm, interesting take on things.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:
Heck, I am still not convinced that is the Emperor on the throne and not just some random body or Horus' body.

Given that people have actually spoken with him personally in the Throne room since his internment we can be safe in knowing its him.

I am pretty sure Chaos knows how to lie pretty well. If you pretend for a moment Horus is on the throne - he has staged the last 10,000 years of history to repeat The Dark Prince's successful birth from Eldar Decadence.

 doomdreamer wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:
Heck, I am still not convinced that is the Emperor on the throne and not just some random body or Horus' body.

Given that people have actually spoken with him personally in the Throne room since his internment we can be safe in knowing its him.

I am pretty sure Chaos knows how to lie pretty well. If you pretend for a moment Horus is on the throne - he has staged the last 10,000 years of history to repeat The Dark Prince's successful birth from Eldar Decadence.

Remind me the last time Horus ever demonstrated the ability to open warp storms, or evidence that he is capable of doing so. If not, then there's nothing even remotely possible of the GEOM being on the throne, although it helps that it's fething canon.

 Manchu wrote:
By M42, and probably long before, the Emperor is what we call an empty signifier.

You mind explaining that for those of us who aren't mathematicians?

 doomdreamer wrote:
Heck, I am still not convinced that is the Emperor on the throne and not just some random body or Horus' body.

That's my type of conspiracy theory! I think Alpharius is on the council of terra. I think it is the emperor on the throne but he is trapped there by a change made to it by malcador who wanted to establish a cult of the emperor but knew he would never allow it. Malcador realized that humans need to worship something so he choose the best option he could immobilizing the emperor on the throne so he could never object to the cult and future worship but would still be alive to receive the worship.

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
By M42, and probably long before, the Emperor is what we call an empty signifier.

You mind explaining that for those of us who aren't mathematicians?

That's the date. M for millennium.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
By M42, and probably long before, the Emperor is what we call an empty signifier.

You mind explaining that for those of us who aren't mathematicians?

That's the date. M for millennium.

He meant the Empty Signifier part.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:
Heck, I am still not convinced that is the Emperor on the throne and not just some random body or Horus' body.

Given that people have actually spoken with him personally in the Throne room since his internment we can be safe in knowing its him.

I am pretty sure Chaos knows how to lie pretty well. If you pretend for a moment Horus is on the throne - he has staged the last 10,000 years of history to repeat The Dark Prince's successful birth from Eldar Decadence.

Remind me the last time Horus ever demonstrated the ability to open warp storms, or evidence that he is capable of doing so. If not, then there's nothing even remotely possible of the GEOM being on the throne, although it helps that it's fething canon.

You forgot stop time for short periods.

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
By M42, and probably long before, the Emperor is what we call an empty signifier.

You mind explaining that for those of us who aren't mathematicians?

It's not a mathematical term. An "empty signifier," in this usage, is a symbol with no clear referent such that its meaning varies dramatically by viewpoint.

 Manchu wrote:

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
By M42, and probably long before, the Emperor is what we call an empty signifier.

You mind explaining that for those of us who aren't mathematicians?

It's not a mathematical term. An "empty signifier," in this usage, is a symbol with no clear referent such that its meaning varies dramatically by viewpoint.

OK, so what does that mean?

People use The Emperor for their own gain and believe in what suits them at the time. Regardless of what He actually wanted.

Golden Throne broken on purpose to prevent his revival. Sounds like a complex Mechanicum / High Lords plot to keep them in power to me!