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I'm thinking of Necrons specifically as it seems a cool looking army and it gets a flying troop transport.
6 Squads with Night Scythes w/ a mix of minimum squads and max squad sizes.
3 Doom Scythes
Storn Lord

What are the disadvantages

The Advantages are that well everything flies and you have 36 Twin Linked Tesla Shots a turn. Plus the STR10 Death Ray
Then you have Stormy giving Night Fight every turn if the roll is good plus bringing down Lighting, and put a Chronometron with him to reroll the night fight. The Tesla doesn't have a AP value anyway so that doesn't matter.

It's also a rather cheap army. Points wise.

It's a minimum buy in point wise of 165x 6 plus the Dooms at 175 x 3.; which you probably couldnt do the full number in 1500 points but above that it'd be perfectly fine and able to.

If you don't have the firepower to take them out, then you should have durability to sit on objectives and GTG all game, and hopefully you went 2nd, so you have the final say on the objectives.

Honestly, a TAC Tau or Eldar list can kill 3 Scythes per turn, Flying circus absolutely demolishes them, any sort of deathstar laughs at their AP- firepower, CSM have Heldrakes, while SM has the durability to just ignore them the entire game, since they'll only be able to bring their full fire potential for two turns out of five.

I have a friend who plays almost the exact same list, Immotek + a couple of Crypteks start on the board with a Comms relay then 3 Doom Scythes and 6+ Night Scythes with infantry. Its a decent list, but its not flexible at all. The biggest killer is the lack of manouverability of the fliers, the last game I played him I was able to completely avoid being shot turn 2 when he arrived (Hammer deployment) and then moved my Serpents under him as fast as I could which completely shuts down the angles he needs to fire. I lost one Serpent to a Death Ray and a couple got damaged by Tesla, but he was never able to bring all his firepower to bear. This issue is compounded by the fact that you are really relying on the flier for damage, I recommend running at least a couple of units of Immortals and probably a unit of Deathmarks (to remove Wraithknights etc) which help but still don't have the punch to

Its also worth noting that it can have some serious issues against armies which can Infiltrate or Scout en-masse. The Stormlord is easy to hide normally, but something like a Scouting Space Marine Chapter Master on Bike is going to reliably beat his face in and cause you to lose turn 1.

@Araenion. No way Heldrakes are going to beat a Cron Air list, they can mess up a couple of Scythes but its mostly a question of numbers - a couple of Scythes should take out a Heldrake and you easily have enough to assign two to each Drake.

Imma say TFC, seen people try it before on tournament hehe needless to say... I won turn one by tabling love dat barrage.

"6 Squads with Night Scythes w/ a mix of minimum squads and max squad sizes.
3 Doom Scythes
Storn Lord "

Only? Some flavor of infiltrate and snipe the one or two unit on board. Otherwise since i run land raiders of the Inquisitor type. try to sit there and snap with twinlinked st 7 rending.

If they drop out to attempt to rapid fire gauss then they are out and ready to be assaulted or killed. at least is my thinking.

I think Tau would have this beat (at least at my LGS) with all the interceptor missilesides and riptides, and then the guad gun.
That said, it can put a huge hurt on anyone who takes a heavy mech army with all that tesla.

Yes, but intercept would not work as they have the night fighting rules in effect unless you get a deployment that's closer. As beyond 36 you cannot shoot them and it's fired as soon as you can see them correct.

Most tau stuff ignores or can upgrade to ignore night fighting.

Yep, tau pretty much neuters fliers and nightfighting, with some really efficiently costed upgrades to already popular units no less. Try them.

Worked with old nids, but assuming he deployed Imhotek behind LOS blocking terrain, just infiltrate some genestealers at the edges of the wall, walk around the corner, then go blender mode with them. use your consolidation to prevent him from standing back up. you win.

Honestly, this works well with any infiltrating blender-tastic CC unit. 'stealers happen to be the first one off the top of my head.

Powerguy wrote:
@Araenion. No way Heldrakes are going to beat a Cron Air list, they can mess up a couple of Scythes but its mostly a question of numbers - a couple of Scythes should take out a Heldrake and you easily have enough to assign two to each Drake.

They don't have to beat it. They just have to do enough damage that they don't have so much firepower bearing down on their durable troops. I know 3+ isn't the end all be all nowadays, but it's still a helluva better than some people give it credit for.

http://knighthammer40k.blogspot.com/2012/10/beakycon-game-2-scythewing.html

Like that ^

Ok that was the old Tyranid codex, but frankly the exact same thing applies with the new one. 9 Scythes will wither dominate the game or will lose easily.... Not much else. In Kill points though it's a a sick list.

 Araenion wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
@Araenion. No way Heldrakes are going to beat a Cron Air list, they can mess up a couple of Scythes but its mostly a question of numbers - a couple of Scythes should take out a Heldrake and you easily have enough to assign two to each Drake.

They don't have to beat it. They just have to do enough damage that they don't have so much firepower bearing down on their durable troops. I know 3+ isn't the end all be all nowadays, but it's still a helluva better than some people give it credit for.

True, I know Chaos can beat Cron Air, but its not the Heldrakes that are doing it. One of the top players locally won one of our last big tournaments with a 3 Heldrake list, which didn't kill very many of the fliers but completely controled the board with two 35 man blobs of Cultists (1 with Abby, 1 with Juggalord with Blind Fury). If you are lucky the Drakes each Vector Strike a Scythe to death and then get shot out of the sky.

Hm... what about a Drop-Pod List with 30 Sternguards coming up in turn 1 and tabling you before the first flier arrives? Think its game over...

MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Hm... what about a Drop-Pod List with 30 Sternguards coming up in turn 1 and tabling you before the first flier arrives? Think its game over...

If you can table him, then yes that'd do it quite well.

MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Hm... what about a Drop-Pod List with 30 Sternguards coming up in turn 1 and tabling you before the first flier arrives? Think its game over...

Against lists which can easily alpha strike you turn 1 and win the game you can deploy some of your infantry scattered all over the board to make it harder to get the auto win. It doesn't help that much and hurts your late game objective grabs, but it gives you a better chance at making it to turn 2.
This list used to work much better because a) there was far less Scout around (i.e no entire armies of White Scars zooming up to hit you turn 1) b) there was far less Infiltrate around and c) you could buy Zandrek (spelling) as well who let you Deep Strike all your fliers when something else Deep struck in turn 1 (i.e Pods going for the turn 1 win) but that doesn't work now since all the 5th edition fliers lost Deep Strike. There was also the major overreaction to fliers at the start of 6th which against made them a tougher list because people didn't know how to play against it.

The most glaring weakness I can see is lack of anti-AV14. Yes, you've got 3 S10 weapons... but you only have three of them. Once you lose your first flier (or the flier loses its one weapon), your anti-heavy-tank is dropping very quickly. Plus, S10 still only damages AV14 half the time...

Also, the other end will give you grief - hordes. Tesla puts out a lot of shots, yes, but it also doesn't ignore cover or armor. If you throw off 20 models per turn with tesla, well... there are armies that don't care about that.

The other main problem that this might have is against people who are prepared for this kind of thing. For example, alpha-strike lists may well be able to kill what token units you have on the board before the end of turn 1, which will cause you to auto-lose before those fliers even enter play. Likewise, if players have anti-flier units, you'll run into problems quickly, especially if they're also fliers (which the doom scythes can't even hit). Or if they know how to play the ground game and ignore fliers.

Flier spam is a decently strong basket, but putting all of your eggs in it causes the same problems as if you'd put them in any other one basket.

Yes but Night Scythes can carry troops in from reserve, your entire army can be in reserve on the first turn, . Also , if they're destroyed the troops are put in reserve, so yeah. It's not even really a disadvantage if you have anything that is able to bring troops out from reserve (say a veil of darkness) or a Monolith. How are you going to Alpha strike an army that is in Reserve? Everything in the army can either Deep Strike in or Fly in and get's to seize the initiative on a 4+ if it wishes.

I am not sure about Imhotekh and his special ability to affect the game if he is in reserve. I think it still works but am unsure. It's also possible to take a character that allows you to reroll reserves as well as have a character in that unit with him that allows him to reroll his boost to stats.

Also it's probably better to just spam even more Night Scythes, also AFAIK Night Scythes can still deep strike. I have no idea if they lose their (Flyer) and are treated as a skimmer. They may have lost this, I read the faq but did not see this.

The totally number of flying vehicles from what I can see without allying is 12. 6 From Troops , 3 from Elites, 3 from Heavy Support.

Here's the Strategy.

Fliers Deep Strike onboard or fly on under nightfight. It doesn't matter if they get a armour save a tesla does not allow you one at all. It blasts the mess out of any unit on a objective. Turn 3 Flies off the board. Turn 4 Comes Back Does the Same Thing. Turn 5 Starts deploying troops on Objectives. While this is going on every turn has a possibility of getting night fight. And you still get to roll for his Lighting for every unit of your oppononents, which hits vehicles on the sides.


It's just getting the optimal number of fliers and stuff that can grab objectives and or easily remove units from objectives, which several characters straight up can by their lonesome.

Hollismason wrote:Yes but Night Scythes can carry troops in from reserve, your entire army can be in reserve on the first turn,

And what happens at the end of turn 1 when you have no models on the board?

Buy an Aegis Defense line or a bunker put some models in it. Put it on the board behind something or stick a Squad in it or whatever if you are fighting a normal army . Also you get to seize the initiative. Or with Alpha Strikes you could also just deploy your necrons and let them try and wipe out 30 models in one turn with night fighting is in effect.

Also that's a super good point about Alpha Strike armies and I am glad you made it so..

So a counter for Deep Striking / Alpha would probably be Ether Crystals

Orikan - makes everything on the first turn move through difficult terrain, I have no idea how that would effect Drop Pods, but bikers would have to take a Dangerous terrain check.

He's also the other part of the combo but then he's also really expensive, but I generally look at the Necron Special characters and go, wait they're kind of powerful and get doubly so when teamed up with Harbingers and other Necron Lords to form mini death star units.

Cover the board with models, so the planes have nowhere to maneuver without wrecking..

Also Lootas


As DE - quad guns work ok, and they can see in the dark. Other than that, just randomly shoot Dark Lances i guess. Not like DE have many other anti-air options.

As Deamons of Nurgle. Find some cover, sit in it. Laugh (unless the flyers have ignores cover)

But frankly, if someone wanted to play a Flying Bakery list i'd probably tell them no thanks, as it's pretty fething tedious. I'd rather a real game of 40k

New thread title. Haha that made me laugh.

 Ailaros wrote:
The most glaring weakness I can see is lack of anti-AV14. Yes, you've got 3 S10 weapons... but you only have three of them. Once you lose your first flier (or the flier loses its one weapon), your anti-heavy-tank is dropping very quickly. Plus, S10 still only damages AV14 half the time...

Also, the other end will give you grief - hordes. Tesla puts out a lot of shots, yes, but it also doesn't ignore cover or armor. If you throw off 20 models per turn with tesla, well... there are armies that don't care about that.

The other main problem that this might have is against people who are prepared for this kind of thing. For example, alpha-strike lists may well be able to kill what token units you have on the board before the end of turn 1, which will cause you to auto-lose before those fliers even enter play. Likewise, if players have anti-flier units, you'll run into problems quickly, especially if they're also fliers (which the doom scythes can't even hit). Or if they know how to play the ground game and ignore fliers.

Flier spam is a decently strong basket, but putting all of your eggs in it causes the same problems as if you'd put them in any other one basket.

Most of your points I agree with, except the first. Between gauss and stormteks, AV14 is a joke for us. It's why I rarely run doomscythes - I just don't need them.

Maelstrom808 wrote:Most of your points I agree with, except the first. Between gauss and stormteks, AV14 is a joke for us. It's why I rarely run doomscythes - I just don't need them.

But he's not taking gauss or stormteks. He's taking tesla and using doom scythes for anti-tank.

Not that a 5-man warrior squad will do nothing to AV14, of course, but then you have to get out of their rides...

 Ailaros wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:Most of your points I agree with, except the first. Between gauss and stormteks, AV14 is a joke for us. It's why I rarely run doomscythes - I just don't need them.

But he's not taking gauss or stormteks. He's taking tesla and using doom scythes for anti-tank.

Not that a 5-man warrior squad will do nothing to AV14, of course, but then you have to get out of their rides...

True he's not taking them. Misread it as a general statement about necrons.

The thing about getting out of the rides is you are going to have to do it at some point. Yes it's a risk and yes you are probably going to lose some squads, but if you plan ahead, it's not hard to clear out a relatively safe area around your drop target. I usually do 2 crypteks per squad. Partially for more firepower, but more importantly, it gives a better chance of one of them staying around to score for me.

The question is if you're willing to get warriors out of their fliers early in the game or late in the game to take objectives. Given their fragility, it's unlikely that a 5x warrior squad is going to do both. That means that either you don't have scoring units, or you don't have anti-tank. Hence the problem.

Okay how does this look then as a more balanced army as honestly Doom Scythes are super expensive and I don't see a real point.

Imotekh the Stormlord

Royal Court 1
Cryptec w/
Lighting Field
Voltaic Staff

Cryptec w/
Chronometron

Cryptec
Veil of Darkness

Nemesor


Royal Court 2


Cryptec w/
Lighting Field
Voltaic Staff

Cryptec w/ Veil of Darkness

Cryptec w/
Chronometron

HQ = 615 , but honestly you can drop this if you need to.

Immortal Squad x 10
Night Scyhe @ 270
I
mmortal Squad x 10
w/ Tesla , Night Scythe

Immortal Squad x 10

Immortal Squad x 10

Troops = 1080



Something like that?

Gives you a ton more options.

A little troop heavy, not enough of anything that can do anything to MCs or vehicles. Other than that, a promising start.

Though multiple twinlinked flying teslas should easilly deal with most (F)MCs and light vehicles. While the V staff should be able to deal with any surprise high avs (though more then he might be in trouble)

I think he will have issues with big units with multi wounds like corndogs while MC he can focus down. personally would of liked to see a bunker piece with a com relay as a back up.

I think this gives you the most bang for your buck

The troop lay out is really nice as well.

You have 2 Chronometrons, who can be comboed with other units.


So for instance


Immortals w/ Tesla
Chrono w/ Veil of Darkness
Chrono w/ Lighting and Voltaic
x2

Immortals w/ Gauss
Chronometron
HQ

Immortals w/ Gauss
Chronometron
HQ


I'm sure you can mess with points to get some more stuff in there though.