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Hey guys. Gonna try a little experiment here. I'm finishing up my marines, so am looking at building up my next army, and have decided to work on an opposing CSM army.

So here's where Dakka comes in. I want to gather the collective intelligence to build this army. As I am starting fresh I don't have many restrictions as far as what to put into it.
Personally I have these:

No Named Characters - CSM has a number of them, but I feel like they work just as well without them. And since I'd like this to be a traveling army and some game stores have issues with named characters I'd just avoid them all together.

No more then 2 Heldrakes - I figure asking to restrict down to 1 would be impossible as they are too good. But I don't want to depend on them so much that the rest of the army suffers if they get shot down on turn 2.

Make it Chaotic - I want many marks. All sorts of different squads. I want to come at my enemy from all angles. Assault, flying, long range, etc.

I'd like to start this at 1250, and then build lists onto it for 1500, 1750, 1850, 2000, 2500. Starting I'm not looking to add forgeworld into the mix, as again some stores are picky about forgeworld. I would prefer to to just add onto the starter 1250 for the bigger lists, so that it can move up and down the points scale easier.

Now the fun, and what I'd like for the forums. Only add one bit at a time. Pick a spot and add to it, HQ, troop, fast, heavy, elite, fortification. Explain and support your pick. Obviously I'm looking for max force org, but if they've already been filled, (exp, people have already added 2 HQs, and you want to throw one in) support why it would either fit better. Though keep it nice.

I'm really looking forward to seeing where this is gonna go. And even more so looking to building and playing it.

I will be editing the first post as suggestions come in

So we've got:

HQ:
Chaos Lord on a bike
Mark of Nurgle
Burning Brand
?

Elites:
Noise Marines - 10 man squad, two blastmasters (240)
5 Korne Terminators, Axes and Combi plas, and a Land Raider
?

Troops:
Plague Champion Bolt pistol, Plague Knife, Melta Bomb
6Plague marines. 2x plasma guns
rhino with dirge caster and dozer blade.

Plague Champion Bolt pistol, Plague Knife, Melta Bomb
6Plague marines. 2x plasma guns
rhino with dirge caster and dozer blade.

Large Squad of Cultists no mark
?
?
?

Fast:
Heldrake, Flamer
Nurgle Bikers with Meltas
?

Heavy:
3 Obliterators with MoN 237
?
?

Fortification:
ADL w/ Quad Gun

Well fast attack is kinda a no brainer since we all know hell drakes are great. Troops is tricky because mostly you want to either take cultists to save on points or elites with hq's that let you have them as troops. But I digress in a pure force org I will argue for what I like in the elite slot

Noise Mariens - 240 10 man squad, no sonic blaster two blastmasters

Why? USR ignores cover strength 8 ap 3 blasts. Also you can chose to put in a doom siren and sonic blaster making them even more deadly. A great many units and even armies rely on cover saves, shrouded or stealth, or even vehicles that rely on jink such as the eldar hornet. You can do yourself a real favor by using these guys wisely although they are expensive. I prefer them behind an aegis or on a skysheild and if at all possible an icon of excess for feel no pain.

I'm liking this. Specially since I tend to run ADL's as often as anything else.

you can only have one blast master per squad.

It depends on what you want to do. What kind of play style you want the army have.

ALWAYS:
Heavy Support:
Obliterators with MoN 237
I like to run three with Veterans of the Long War. That way if you lose one you are taking a leadership test at increased leadership.

You definitely want an ADL with a Quad Gun as your fortification.

Since we have a good heavy and a good ranged troop, let's add something fun:

10 Khorne Berzerkers, and Champion with a Power Fist, and a Land Raider for them to ride in. Is it a fantastic unit? No. Is it cool and useful? Yes. Switch to a Rhino if you must.

In the errata you xan take 2 blasmasters with at least 10 so it is still viable

Metroidd wrote:
In the errata you xan take 2 blasmasters with at least 10 so it is still viable

I just checked the codex. It says "One noise marine per ten models may replace his bolt gun with a blast master."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also if you bringing noise marines. Why not bring the Icon of Excess.

Serg Rush wrote:

Metroidd wrote:
In the errata you xan take 2 blasmasters with at least 10 so it is still viable

I just checked the codex. It says "One noise marine per ten models may replace his bolt gun with a blast master."

Errata trumps codex, though. if it's in the FAQ than it's legal.

I haven't checked the FAQ however.

Modded post.

I'm liking this so far, but no HQ's or troops.

So I'm throwing a Chaos lord on a bike, Nurgle Marked with Brand.

Honestly I've just always wanted to try to build a model for this.

You have to decide what the play style you want to play before we can pick your HQ and troops.

What do you want to do?

I'm assuming your nurgle lord on bike means you want to go bikers. Add a squad of 5 Nurgle bikers. whatever guns you want. (As many melt as as possible)

If your bringing a nurgle lord then you want plague marines.

I bring two squads both equipped the same.
Plague Champion Bolt pistol, Plague Knife, Melta Bomb
6Plague marines. 2x plasma guns
rhino with dirge caster and dozer blade.

250 points. bring two squads

Oh, I'm loving it. All things I've been itching to play.

Inari82 wrote:
Oh, I'm loving it. All things I've been itching to play.

I would suggest one change though. Your 10 man berzerker ball is too expensive and ineffective a tactic for what you want to do. They will tear through a squad. But I don't see them surviving to long after that. I'd want a little more survivability in my bum rush. Better harass that way. I would replace them with Khorne Terminators with Icon of Wrath. 5x power axes with 5 combi plasmas, or Khorne Mutilators.

Serg Rush wrote:

Inari82 wrote:
Oh, I'm loving it. All things I've been itching to play.

I would suggest one change though. Your 10 man berzerker ball is too expensive and ineffective a tactic for what you want to do. They will tear through a squad. But I don't see them surviving to long after that. I'd want a little more survivability in my bum rush. Better harass that way. I would replace them with Khorne Terminators with Icon of Wrath. 5x power axes with 5 combi plasmas, or Khorne Mutilators.

And still elites. Excellent.

Now we have 3 gods accounted for. Now how do we fit in Tzeench?

There is a rumor that in the crimson slaughter supplement that comes out today. There is an artifact that allows Sorcerers to use divination. If that's true. Imagine Perfect Timing Thousand Sons. AP3 infernal bolts that ignore cover. Ally with crimson slaughter if this is true.

What does the Tzeench mark do for cultists? It might be good for them to hang back on a home objective with the noise marines and perhaps man the quad gun.

6 up invulnerable on cultists. Not worth it. Bring a cultist ball to hold the control point behind the aegis. no use in upgrading. If they get shot just go to ground and take the cover. Bring a rhino on the noise marines. they need to get within 24" to unload their salvo.One Icon of excess your noise marines to. its worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your getting up their in points and need a little more cheap anti armor. Get a tri las predator

So at 1250 I'm looking at something like

Chaos lord on bike, nurgle

Terminators
lord + 3 guys, khorn marked in a LR

Noise Marines
Champion, 7 reg, 1 noiseblaster

Cultists

Plague Marine + 2 melta guns

Heldrake

1 Obliterator

ADL w/ Quad Gun

Outside of the cultists it seems a little model light, but threat heavy at 1250.

You don't need to have a lord on a bike in your current 1250 list. In fact. Don't do it. That is probably the easiest slay the warlord you can get.

You need to attach him to the plague marines. then you NEED to put them in a rhino. to get the points for it. You might want to shave off two regular noise marines.

1250 is to small a game to bring a raider. Get rid of it. Max out your termy squad and deep strike them. Get at least one more obliterator.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Based on what you want. My 1250 would look like this

+ Fortification +

* Aegis Defense Line (100pts)
Gun emplacement with quad-gun


+ HQ +

* Chaos Lord (80pts)
Mark of Nurgle
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon


+ Elites +


* Chaos Terminators (180pts)
Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne
* 4x Terminator
Combi-melta, -flamer, -plasma, Power Axe
* Terminator Champion
Combi-flamer, -melta, or plasma, Power Axe


* Noise Marines (214pts)
Icon of Excess, Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster, 3x Noise Marine w/ Sonic Blaster, 4 CCW
* Chaos Rhino
* Noise Champion
Bolt Pistol, CCW, Doom Siren


+ Troops +

* Chaos Cultists (74pts)
16x Autopistol, 16x Squad models (champion included)


* Plague Marines (Troops) (228pts)
2x Meltagun, 6x Plague Marine
* Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke launchers
* Plague Champion
Bolt Pistol, Plagueknife Knife , Melta Bombs


+ Fast Attack +

* Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer


+ Heavy Support +

* Obliterators (152pts)
Mark of Nurgle, 2x Obliterator


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your going to attach your lord to your plague marines. The put them in your rhino flat out to the objective. These guys are the guys who are going to do the dirty work. The stuff that isn't flashy, but necessary. Controlling objectives.

I know your excited for the Khorne Terminators. In this list they are a diversion. Nothing more. If you have to sacrifice them. Do it willing. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows.

Cultist behind the aegis controlling the control point in your base and one mans the quad gun.

Noise marines. These are your death star units you are going to need to get creative. You need to support them with your rhinos. Once your first rhino drops off the plagues. If possible you want to bring it up to support your noise. they are loaded for a potential close combat engagement. Thats an if necessary. Don't seek it if you don't have to. Let them shoot.

Obliterators. Anything endangers your noise marines or plague marines... MUST... OBLITERATE!!!!

Heldrake follows the old war adage. Kill them and break their stuff. Pretty straight forward here.

Being a fan of Tzeentch, I would have to add (5) Chaos terminators, MoT, (4) combi-meltas,and a heavy flamer. 2+ 4++ deep striking into your enemy's back field with meltas and a H flamer is just nasty!

Take out his expensive heavy support unit using the Melta, then dare him to charge you. You will laugh off overwatch with a 2+ 4++, and welcome the charge with the H flamer and combi-bolter overwatch. Watch your opponent start to sweat trying to figure out how to deal with this unit while the rest of your army advances into his lines.

Serg - I'm liking this, and thank you for explaining how they work. As I'm used to drop pod Salamanders, I'm looking forward to more and decisive tactical decisions.

Inari82 wrote:
Serg - I'm liking this, and thank you for explaining how they work. As I'm used to drop pod Salamanders, I'm looking forward to more and decisive tactical decisions.

Glad to hear it. It's important to remember its not the same play style as regular space marines. You can't rely on overwhelming power to win games. There is one unit that isn the codex that is scary on its own (a certain flying fire breathing demon.) However, when everything is clicking and working cohesively, that's when you start getting scary. In my opinion what chaos loses in fire power, it makes up in toughness. That allows you some flexibility. The key to chaos is to make your opponent make decisions. Do they want to target the obliterators, tri-las predators, maulerfiends, the terminators that just deep striked behind them, or the plague marines that can seem unmovable once they sit on an objective. Your going to take some lumps in the beginning, but once you learn. You will be able to pull out wins, or at least have dramatic fun games.

Also, if you find yourself struggling. Hell turkeys clean up a lot of mistakes.

Serg Rush wrote:

Inari82 wrote:
Serg - I'm liking this, and thank you for explaining how they work. As I'm used to drop pod Salamanders, I'm looking forward to more and decisive tactical decisions.

Glad to hear it. It's important to remember its not the same play style as regular space marines. You can't rely on overwhelming power to win games. There is one unit that isn the codex that is scary on its own (a certain flying fire breathing demon.) However, when everything is clicking and working cohesively, that's when you start getting scary. In my opinion what chaos loses in fire power, it makes up in toughness. That allows you some flexibility. The key to chaos is to make your opponent make decisions. Do they want to target the obliterators, tri-las predators, maulerfiends, the terminators that just deep striked behind them, or the plague marines that can seem unmovable once they sit on an objective. Your going to take some lumps in the beginning, but once you learn. You will be able to pull out wins, or at least have dramatic fun games.

Also, if you find yourself struggling. Hell turkeys clean up a lot of mistakes.

Now I was curious about maulerfiends. I like the models, and have seen them do a lot of business on the field, but it seems they are a little more fragile then some of the things in the heavy slot. Are the predators, havocs, and oblitarators just out classing them? it seems like we are spoiled in for choice in this slot.

If you wanna melt stuff get a deepstriking 5 man chosen squad, 4 meltas and the champ with combi-melta, MoN.
I dont have my codex with me now but i think thats about 150 points, perfect for that 1 landraider or super killy MC

I've just recently returned to Warhammer 40K after being away for a few years and was looking for some inspiration for my own new CSM army. I have found a lot of to work with in here!

Serg Rush - Awesome all-around list! I am also interested in your thoughts on the Forgefiend/Maulerfiend and how it stacks up beside the other Heavy options (tanks, etc)

 StormBringer328 wrote:
I've just recently returned to Warhammer 40K after being away for a few years and was looking for some inspiration for my own new CSM army. I have found a lot of to work with in here!

Serg Rush - Awesome all-around list! I am also interested in your thoughts on the Forgefiend/Maulerfiend and how it stacks up beside the other Heavy options (tanks, etc)

Welcome back. 6th Edition Chaos is fun but it does have a learning curve. On their own, each unit isn't particularlly scary (minus heldrakes. They are AMAZING, and kinda broken. I bring two.) However, when things are working together, then your army gets scary. The strength of chaos is its flexibility. You aren't forced to run a set list or a list that is similar for every player. The key is target saturation. Don't buy a ton of upgrades. Focus on feet on the ground and essential upgrades (marks, plasma guns, stuff like that.) Always bring an aegis line with a quad gun though.

As for your question. My fiends have worked their way out of my list. That's not to say they are bad. They aren't. There are just better cost effective options for what I'm trying to do. Mauler fiends. Some people will tell you not to bring them. I think if you mix them into your strategy they can be effective. But don't have your entire strategy hinge on their success. If you choose to bring them, bring them as a diversionary unit. Something that your opponent needs to focus on, that allows your other units to do their jobs. They go for quality of hits, not quantity. So they can be tar pitted by an expendable squad. They are meant for tying up and killing small tough units rather than in numbers.

Forge fiends. People like them and I think they do have a role. The quantity of shots make them good against swarm armies and MCs. There are two things I don't like about them. Their cost and their ballistic skill. They cost between 175-200 points. Like I said earlier. I think more units is better in chaos than really mean things. They are daemons. They are Ballistic skill 3. They are going to miss 50% of the time with their Hades and their ectoplasm cannon is going to scatter at times when you need a solid hit. Its for those reasons I prefer the Tri-Las Pred. Its not as survivable, but I feel it is more reliable. I try to keep it behind my aegis for cover and exploit the Las cannon 48" range. But everyone has a different play style and opinion. Don't let because I said it stop you from trying it.

You are Chaos. You are going to take your lumps early. But once you find something that works for you and gear your list towards that strength. You will have fun and the wins will come. Just stick with it, like you would anything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MoN Oblits are a must in my opinion. I can't tell you how many times they have swung a game for me.

I have also had really good luck with Havoc squads. They often get ignored but the enemy which allows them to lay down heavy fire power. Most of the internet will tell our that auto guns are they way to go with them, but I have had a lot of luck with rocket launchers.

Vindicators. I don't use them but if you choose to. Bring 2. One will get destroyed. Again. I don't like scatter in my army. Others will be able to give you better reviews